Kano deletes posts he doesn't like.

[RonaldSmall]

Man, don't even get me started on Kano.  The rudeness isn't an issue for me, I'm rude too.  The deleting posts is regrettable but whatever, it's a self moderated thread, everyone should know it's an echo chamber the moment they see that.

The issue for me is Kano eating up peoples 'dust' from mining ramp up time and pretending it's a negligible amount.  It's not.  And even if it was, it's still other peoples money and he should pay it out to them.  But if you ask him about it, even very politely, like you said, it's like a 12 y/o jumped on the keyboard and had a hissy fit as a response.  "I'll pay that dust out when hell freezes over!" - Seriously, that's a quote, can't be bothered to dig up the link but that's basically exactly what he said.  Three years now he's been stacking up peoples 'dust' and it's well over $75k USD by now.

I think the non-payment of 'dust' and other people who have gotten burned with Kano's pool in other ways (didn't setup their account right, didn't notice until it was already several hundred (or thousand?) USD worth mined, never made whole by Kano, who just kept it and laughed at them about it) are all the reason anyone needs to avoid his crappy pool like the plague.

I would recommend ckPool instead.  Everyone's super nice, there are no fees, no pool wallets, only downsides are it's still very small in size and one time there was a snafu with the first mined block and that unfortunately resulted in no one getting paid for it.  Oh well, that's how beta's go.  I can personally confirm that payments are made now, instantly the moment block is mined, even for amounts that would be 'dust' in Kano's pool.

Good luck and happy mining!

You are spot on about Kano's ramp up time.  He also says, it works out if you lose power and are still able to get profits from blocks that are hit if you are offline and he says that it evens out if you leave the pool and it ramps down.  Both are false.  First of all, if you lose power, you start the ramping down and then once you get power back, you start back at some stage of the ramping back up process.  The odds are you will take a hit on that in dust.  Also, when I left Kano Pool, no block was hit during the entire ramp down (which is 7 days now).  I got nothing on the ramp down.  Kano just got all of my profits on the 3 day ramp up I had to go through.  It's completely dishonest.  And if you have questions about it he gets angry and starts screaming about 5Nd being explained on his web page.  What that 5nD amounts to is Kano being better at embezzlement math than the average person whose eyes are going to glaze over when trying to understand what he posted about it, so they'll just assume it's legit and ignore it.

I am not really familiar with CKPool.  I will have to check it out.  Thanks!

I think what you don't understand is your shares got watered down after you left as others keep throwing shares at the block, but as you stated the pool didn't hit any blocks so i am not sure why you were surprised you didn't get anything?  If the pool would have hit 10 blocks during your ramp down you would be singing a different song.

Also on the ramp up I think the other miners got what you think is your share as they would share with you on the ramp down after your gone.

The funny thing is that most of the excuses for the ramp up and ramp down I hear amount to it all coming out in the wash.  That basically it doesn't matter, because it all equals out in the end.  If that is true, then why have the ramp up and ramp down?  Seriously, if it truly makes no difference, why do it?  There is a reason.  Not that it will matter anymore really anyway, because Kano Pool is dead.  

It tends to keeps people from pool hopping. No different than why Slush does what he does on his pool. You can mine there for hours and get nothing if your shares go stale before a block is hit.

Yeah, but there is a little bit of difference between a few hour ramp up and a 7 day ramp up.

[1714121696]

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[os2sam]

Yeah, but there is a little bit of difference between a few hour ramp up and a 7 day ramp up.

So you mean to tell me that your pissed at Kano because you don't like the way PPLNS works?  Really??  I don't like the way PPLNS works either, I like straight proportional because it's easy to understand and check, but it's hoppable.  I could really care less that it's hoppable as I don't have a problem with hoppers making a little extra for the extra work they did.  But the Bitcoin community overwhelmingly disagrees with me on that and demanded payout systems like PPLNS.  So if the ramp up and ramp down irritate you then blame the entire Bitcoin community.  Kano is just acquiescing to the demands of the community at large.

[Aurel577]

Man, don't even get me started on Kano.  The rudeness isn't an issue for me, I'm rude too.  The deleting posts is regrettable but whatever, it's a self moderated thread, everyone should know it's an echo chamber the moment they see that.

The issue for me is Kano eating up peoples 'dust' from mining ramp up time and pretending it's a negligible amount.  It's not.  And even if it was, it's still other peoples money and he should pay it out to them.  But if you ask him about it, even very politely, like you said, it's like a 12 y/o jumped on the keyboard and had a hissy fit as a response.  "I'll pay that dust out when hell freezes over!" - Seriously, that's a quote, can't be bothered to dig up the link but that's basically exactly what he said.  Three years now he's been stacking up peoples 'dust' and it's well over $75k USD by now.

I think the non-payment of 'dust' and other people who have gotten burned with Kano's pool in other ways (didn't setup their account right, didn't notice until it was already several hundred (or thousand?) USD worth mined, never made whole by Kano, who just kept it and laughed at them about it) are all the reason anyone needs to avoid his crappy pool like the plague.

I would recommend ckPool instead.  Everyone's super nice, there are no fees, no pool wallets, only downsides are it's still very small in size and one time there was a snafu with the first mined block and that unfortunately resulted in no one getting paid for it.  Oh well, that's how beta's go.  I can personally confirm that payments are made now, instantly the moment block is mined, even for amounts that would be 'dust' in Kano's pool.

Good luck and happy mining!

You are spot on about Kano's ramp up time.  He also says, it works out if you lose power and are still able to get profits from blocks that are hit if you are offline and he says that it evens out if you leave the pool and it ramps down.  Both are false.  First of all, if you lose power, you start the ramping down and then once you get power back, you start back at some stage of the ramping back up process.  The odds are you will take a hit on that in dust.  Also, when I left Kano Pool, no block was hit during the entire ramp down (which is 7 days now).  I got nothing on the ramp down.  Kano just got all of my profits on the 3 day ramp up I had to go through.  It's completely dishonest.  And if you have questions about it he gets angry and starts screaming about 5Nd being explained on his web page.  What that 5nD amounts to is Kano being better at embezzlement math than the average person whose eyes are going to glaze over when trying to understand what he posted about it, so they'll just assume it's legit and ignore it.

I am not really familiar with CKPool.  I will have to check it out.  Thanks!

I think what you don't understand is your shares got watered down after you left as others keep throwing shares at the block, but as you stated the pool didn't hit any blocks so i am not sure why you were surprised you didn't get anything?  If the pool would have hit 10 blocks during your ramp down you would be singing a different song.

Also on the ramp up I think the other miners got what you think is your share as they would share with you on the ramp down after your gone.

The funny thing is that most of the excuses for the ramp up and ramp down I hear amount to it all coming out in the wash.  That basically it doesn't matter, because it all equals out in the end.  If that is true, then why have the ramp up and ramp down?  Seriously, if it truly makes no difference, why do it?  There is a reason.  Not that it will matter anymore really anyway, because Kano Pool is dead.  

It tends to keeps people from pool hopping. No different than why Slush does what he does on his pool. You can mine there for hours and get nothing if your shares go stale before a block is hit.

Yeah, but there is a little bit of difference between a few hour ramp up and a 7 day ramp up.

please explain why? 

[beltsniffer]

....
Yeah, but there is a little bit of difference between a few hour ramp up and a 7 day ramp up.

As long as the ramp up and ramp down periods are the same, I don't see why the length of time would matter.

[rifleman74]

....
Yeah, but there is a little bit of difference between a few hour ramp up and a 7 day ramp up.

As long as the ramp up and ramp down periods are the same, I don't see why the length of time would matter.

They are if the pool size remains the same, if it drops (like it did the past month), the ramp down is even longer (along with the ramp up).  

[rayday11]

According to information from the pool, ramp up is about 15 days:

PPLNS acts like the reward 'ramps up' when you first start mining.
What actually happens?

The 5Nd means it takes that long to reward your shares.
The ramp isn't missing rewards, it's delaying them to reduce variance.
Each share is rewarded in all the blocks found in the 5Nd after the share.
That's simply how it reduces variance. Each share's reward is averaged out over the 5Nd after it.
The pool hash rate for the last day is roughly 21.12PHs which means the 5Nd 'ramp' is roughly 15days 20hrs.

[RonaldSmall]

I'd rather get what I mine than worry about variance.  I have never heard a reasonable reason for reducing variance.  The excuses I hear for the ramping up and down are always that it doesn't matter, which tells me that it does matter, or it wouldn't be done.  And second, that it reduces variance.  Well, so what?  I don't think that something that I don't want done (reducing variance) should be used to justify a practice of ramping up and down that I also don't want.

[os2sam]

I'd rather get what I mine than worry about variance.  I have never heard a reasonable reason for reducing variance.  The excuses I hear for the ramping up and down are always that it doesn't matter, which tells me that it does matter, or it wouldn't be done.  And second, that it reduces variance.  Well, so what?  I don't think that something that I don't want done (reducing variance) should be used to justify a practice of ramping up and down that I also don't want.

That is the nature of the PPLNS payout system.  All PPLNS pools work the same, which are most of the pools that exist now.

[RonaldSmall]

Feel free to name a major pool with a 2 week ramp up time.

[os2sam]

Feel free to name a major pool with a 2 week ramp up time.

All PPLNS Pools have a ramp and ramp down.  The shorter the ramp up/down the higher chance there is of shares not getting paid at all.  This has happened quite a bit at Slush, but I don't recall it happening at Kano.is.  So it's a trade off.