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Author Topic: Betting on the price falling  (Read 962 times)
corybrackett
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November 01, 2017, 11:58:06 PM
 #21

Is there any way of betting on a price fall? I can't find any derivatives for that.
If you're afraid of losing the valuable when you're betting BTC, so i suggest you should go with cash or keep going with BTC but wait till the price's going up to sell.
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November 02, 2017, 12:38:43 AM
 #22

Sorting is not a good idea.
I would buy more and I ll look to have a chance to buy Altcoins.

Dont sort Bitcoin.
It is just rising.
Love it
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November 02, 2017, 12:51:32 AM
 #23

You can bet on falling price of bitcoin with https://iqoption.com/land/crypto/en/ its binary trading.

If you don't like binary trading than you can trade bitcoin with leverage in https://simplefx.com/dashboard/

Thanks for the recommendations, I would like to try the binary option, iqoption is that legit? Thanks.

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November 02, 2017, 03:15:48 AM
 #24

You can bet on falling price of bitcoin with https://iqoption.com/land/crypto/en/ its binary trading.

If you don't like binary trading than you can trade bitcoin with leverage in https://simplefx.com/dashboard/

Thanks for the recommendations, I would like to try the binary option, iqoption is that legit? Thanks.
well i believe  that falling of the price  is a big opportunity to bet in btc it is really profitable if we  are going to buy it during the price   fall and it during the price  rise high and i believe we made a great betting poin on this strategy .we just only need to  have more patience  and maybe a short capital on it because it is in the down status.that is why we  less our expenses.

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November 02, 2017, 03:19:38 AM
 #25

I believe there is a big risk on betting on bitcoins as we as other currency.

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November 02, 2017, 03:22:59 AM
 #26

Is there any way of betting on a price fall? I can't find any derivatives for that.
To be sure, it can only be the experience you have gained as a trader. When prices drop I will put confidence in it because it will definitely come back.

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November 02, 2017, 03:28:18 AM
 #27

Sorting is not a good idea.
I would buy more and I ll look to have a chance to buy Altcoins.

Dont sort Bitcoin.
It is just rising.
Love it

Sorting Bitcoin now is like to burn your money,
sorting altcoin may be a good opportunity but it is not a good idea either.

It is the same,
I dont like to sort,
we dont like it Smiley

I prefer to buy cheap Smiley
waiting for a moment to pump it Smiley
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November 02, 2017, 07:42:54 AM
 #28

I know crypto trading is one way trading. It means that we get profit if we buy low and sell high.
If you wish to trade both side you can enter to forex market since now broker provide crypto market with leverage. And maybe try binary options.
There is a huge difference in between crypto trading and forex trading. There is no way that you can make a comparison of both of them. As far as betting on price falling is concerned, I think there is no one who can predict this thing quite accurately.

You can only guess what is going to happen in the future but there are 50-50 chances of this thing that whether your guess is going to be right or not.

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November 02, 2017, 08:26:20 AM
 #29

Is there any way of betting on a price fall? I can't find any derivatives for that.
And you already know that she will fall or imagine. Most importantly they understand that they will fall, but they continue to keep or invest even more, an interesting policy. We must already start to sell and cash casually.
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November 02, 2017, 10:10:52 PM
 #30

I know many people will disagree with this, I wish Bitcoin could rule the world as well, but it will not happen. I think it’s a great thing BUT:
I agree with Bitcoin crashing. It’s actually easy to understand why? The higher the price goes up the more money it takes to buy 1 Bitcoin. So “artificially” the demand for the AMOUNT of Bitcoins is going down even when, the same “amount of money” is the demand. This effect gets more and more strained until it is impossible to sustain, because there is only so much money on earth. So it crashes, massively.

Real world example: (take my maths and figures as rough guides not facts)
Let’s say demand for bitcoin is just 2 people want to buy bitcoins, each day. (Just 2 to make the math easy)
Money in the market: They have $10 each. (Calculated as the average person’s disposable income, betting on just something for fun)

The math bit:
With the Price at $1: If the price of Bitcoin is $1 each, they will buy 10 coins each. So if there is 20 for sale, they can easily buy 20 of the exchanges. The price will stay the same as supply and demand matches. If there is just 19 available, the price will adjust and go up. Let’s say there is just 8 available, so the price jumps to $10 the next day.

Price at $10: Even though the price is up 1000% (from $1), at $10 each, they can only afford 1 coin each. SO, the demand for actual amount of coins decreased 90% (demand down 90%) simply because the price forced it. The actual amount of people or money did NOT. Next day…

Price at $100: Even though the price has surged another 900%. (From $10). They can only afford a fraction each and the demand for actual coins have gone down 1000%. Next day …

Price at $1000: Not going to bother with the math, but demand has dropped by over 100 000%

With Price at $10 000 000: Every person on earth will need to sell every real asset they have (EVERYTHING) and put it all into bitcoin. That’s every unit of money in every currency on earth, has to dedicate to just one asset, just to keep the price stable. If the difference between buyers and sellers (over every exchange on earth) is just 100 coins too much, the market will have to adjust the price for a $1billion shortfall.
Obviously it cannot get to $10million, as every person on earth is not going to sell their house, car, cat, shares, pensions, etc.  for a Bitcoin.

So the question is:
At what point do people stop to sell real life assets to put into Bitcoin? THAT is the start of the crash. As the price rises the amount of money that has to inflow has to exponentially increase to keep the prices stable and going up, until the inflow is not enough. BOOM!!!

Top theoretical price valuation model for 1 Bitcoin before a crash: (making some assumptions and guessing the rest)
So China is 90% of Bitcoin trading.
In theory every Chinese person 1.2 billion buys $1000 of Bitcoins.
Taking $1000 as hey average disposable income, per capita.
We assume that once every Chinese person has spent their $1000 no more will buy.
That’s 1.2 billion times $1000 = $1.2 trillion is the 90% maximum value of Bitcoin before it runs out of steam.
SO let’s say $1.5 trillion total.
Current total value is around $110 billion at $7000, the top possible price to lay somewhere around $ 95454.54 (assuming 15714285.71 Bitcoins in circulation)

Top price before crash:
My guesstimate is a crash from between $9600 (says the maths) and  $12000 (adding some cool factor/hype into price) as the top price paid on any exchange.

How long before a crash:
We are at $7000 and the price can go up by $1000 in a day so anywhere from 10 days to 6 months. My crappy math says within 30 days, but I’ll say 6 months because the math can be off by months and thousands.

Logically summing up:
An underlying asset needs to have more than “cool factor”. My house I live in, my car I drive, gold I can make things with, websites I can sell things and make money with. Bitcoin is what, besides cool and new, like currency does not exist. There are over 100 currencies, the difference is a central bank to make sure everything stays balanced. The reality is that governments and bank will bring out their own versions, government licenced and enforced, just like the currencies we have now. This will render Bitcoin obsolete and worthless, except for cool factor, which I put at $50 each TOPS (just guessing). They have to bring out their own, so they can control and manage the amount is circulation and to know who’s paying who. Bitcoin cannot become a true alternative currency (an asset maybe but not a true currency) that all governments and banks will accept. More important you can’t tax it and you have no idea who paid who and for what. Governments’ needs taxes or they will go bust. So either Bitcoin goes to a reasonable price below $1000 (I say $50ish) - or - every government on earth goes bust, while every person on earth ONLY owns Bitcoins, nothing else.

Can the government/banks crash Bitcoin?
With what they have right now, obviously NO!They must have tried several times. So they have to create another way to wipe it out … how .. hang on! Let allow derivatives to be traded in the USA. Then they can take out a massive naked short position (or print money to afford it) and crash the price of the derivative, Bitcoin prices will respond and crash. Is that even possible has this been done before? Now how much did Goldman, JP Morgan, HSBC, Barclays pay in fines for manipulating prices using derivatives … IF I remember right, over $20 Billion. Thats just the fines, for manipulating trillion dollar a day markets, when Bitcoin is something like $100 billion in total. So they can do it (soon), they have now created the opportunity to do it, they will DO IT = VERY SOON.

Markers to watch out for:
Bankers making statements in the press about bitcoin being a bubble. Why do they bother? Are they putting their reputations on the line? Hell no! They are "scaring demand" off, so that the short possition will not get challenged once they start dropping the price. So far, I count 2 CEO's that have called it a bubble, there will be more but not before their posittions are in place. ie: They need the derivatives to start trading on the US main exchanges, so that they can build up big enough posittions to make it  sure thing and to make it worth it.

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November 03, 2017, 06:50:39 PM
 #31

I agree with Bitcoin crashing. It’s actually easy to understand why? The higher the price goes up the more money it takes to buy 1 Bitcoin. So “artificially” the demand for the AMOUNT of Bitcoins is going down even when, the same “amount of money” is the demand.
You forget 2 things:
1. More people get into Bitcoin, so more people spend dollars on it.
2. People selling Bitcoin don't sell the same amount at once. Where you may have sold 1000BTC at once 6 years ago, you'll sell 0.1 BTC now.

Quote
Markers to watch out for:
Bankers making statements in the press about bitcoin being a bubble. Why do they bother? Are they putting their reputations on the line? Hell no! They are "scaring demand" off, so that the short possition will not get challenged once they start dropping the price.
Now imagine JP Morgan makes the same statement about something else than Bitcoin. The price drops, and JP Morgan buys that asset just 2 days later. They'd end up in jail for market manipulation!
When they do it to Bitcoin, nobody bats an eye.

~ it's called shorting Bitcoins. Several exchanges offer this, and it's a great way to burn through your money if prices keep rising.
I wrote this just 4 days ago. Since then, Bitcoin went up $1200.
Now, imagine you would have shorted Bitcoin 4 days ago. You would have burned a lot of money!

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November 03, 2017, 07:05:51 PM
 #32

Yes, you can.

It's called shorting, and you can short Bitcoin on Bitfinex or some of the futures trading platform like mentioned above.

In times like these, it's probably the smartest bet (next to buying ton of altcoins).  Wink

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November 03, 2017, 07:14:30 PM
 #33

Well there may not be serious price correction of Bitcoin soon, base on the way am seeing the current trend and the number of people demanding for bitcoin that are increasing day after day. This is because when the demand becomes high, the value of Bitcoin will continue to increase since the demand for Bitcoin is high as compared to the supply. For now we are yet to see the factors that will influence a serious correction or decline in the market value of Bitcoin. Althoug, bitcoin will continue fluctuating up and down and that is not some thing that one should bet for Op.

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November 03, 2017, 08:32:12 PM
 #34

Sell bitcoin when the price is falling down and keep betting if the price is going up. That's the basic rules when gambling with BTC . I think you don't have balls to gambling with BTC so you should go gambling with fiats better. Their valuation is stable.

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November 04, 2017, 01:16:19 PM
 #35

I know many people will disagree with this, I wish Bitcoin could rule the world as well, but it will not happen. I think it’s a great thing BUT:
I agree with Bitcoin crashing. It’s actually easy to understand why? The higher the price goes up the more money it takes to buy 1 Bitcoin. So “artificially” the demand for the AMOUNT of Bitcoins is going down even when, the same “amount of money” is the demand. This effect gets more and more strained until it is impossible to sustain, because there is only so much money on earth. So it crashes, massively.

Real world example: (take my maths and figures as rough guides not facts)
Let’s say demand for bitcoin is just 2 people want to buy bitcoins, each day. (Just 2 to make the math easy)
Money in the market: They have $10 each. (Calculated as the average person’s disposable income, betting on just something for fun)

The math bit:
With the Price at $1: If the price of Bitcoin is $1 each, they will buy 10 coins each. So if there is 20 for sale, they can easily buy 20 of the exchanges. The price will stay the same as supply and demand matches. If there is just 19 available, the price will adjust and go up. Let’s say there is just 8 available, so the price jumps to $10 the next day.

Price at $10: Even though the price is up 1000% (from $1), at $10 each, they can only afford 1 coin each. SO, the demand for actual amount of coins decreased 90% (demand down 90%) simply because the price forced it. The actual amount of people or money did NOT. Next day…

Price at $100: Even though the price has surged another 900%. (From $10). They can only afford a fraction each and the demand for actual coins have gone down 1000%. Next day …

Price at $1000: Not going to bother with the math, but demand has dropped by over 100 000%

With Price at $10 000 000: Every person on earth will need to sell every real asset they have (EVERYTHING) and put it all into bitcoin. That’s every unit of money in every currency on earth, has to dedicate to just one asset, just to keep the price stable. If the difference between buyers and sellers (over every exchange on earth) is just 100 coins too much, the market will have to adjust the price for a $1billion shortfall.
Obviously it cannot get to $10million, as every person on earth is not going to sell their house, car, cat, shares, pensions, etc.  for a Bitcoin.

So the question is:
At what point do people stop to sell real life assets to put into Bitcoin? THAT is the start of the crash. As the price rises the amount of money that has to inflow has to exponentially increase to keep the prices stable and going up, until the inflow is not enough. BOOM!!!

Top theoretical price valuation model for 1 Bitcoin before a crash: (making some assumptions and guessing the rest)
So China is 90% of Bitcoin trading.
In theory every Chinese person 1.2 billion buys $1000 of Bitcoins.
Taking $1000 as hey average disposable income, per capita.
We assume that once every Chinese person has spent their $1000 no more will buy.
That’s 1.2 billion times $1000 = $1.2 trillion is the 90% maximum value of Bitcoin before it runs out of steam.
SO let’s say $1.5 trillion total.
Current total value is around $110 billion at $7000, the top possible price to lay somewhere around $ 95454.54 (assuming 15714285.71 Bitcoins in circulation)

Top price before crash:
My guesstimate is a crash from between $9600 (says the maths) and  $12000 (adding some cool factor/hype into price) as the top price paid on any exchange.

How long before a crash:
We are at $7000 and the price can go up by $1000 in a day so anywhere from 10 days to 6 months. My crappy math says within 30 days, but I’ll say 6 months because the math can be off by months and thousands.

Logically summing up:
An underlying asset needs to have more than “cool factor”. My house I live in, my car I drive, gold I can make things with, websites I can sell things and make money with. Bitcoin is what, besides cool and new, like currency does not exist. There are over 100 currencies, the difference is a central bank to make sure everything stays balanced. The reality is that governments and bank will bring out their own versions, government licenced and enforced, just like the currencies we have now. This will render Bitcoin obsolete and worthless, except for cool factor, which I put at $50 each TOPS (just guessing). They have to bring out their own, so they can control and manage the amount is circulation and to know who’s paying who. Bitcoin cannot become a true alternative currency (an asset maybe but not a true currency) that all governments and banks will accept. More important you can’t tax it and you have no idea who paid who and for what. Governments’ needs taxes or they will go bust. So either Bitcoin goes to a reasonable price below $1000 (I say $50ish) - or - every government on earth goes bust, while every person on earth ONLY owns Bitcoins, nothing else.

Can the government/banks crash Bitcoin?
With what they have right now, obviously NO!They must have tried several times. So they have to create another way to wipe it out … how .. hang on! Let allow derivatives to be traded in the USA. Then they can take out a massive naked short position (or print money to afford it) and crash the price of the derivative, Bitcoin prices will respond and crash. Is that even possible has this been done before? Now how much did Goldman, JP Morgan, HSBC, Barclays pay in fines for manipulating prices using derivatives … IF I remember right, over $20 Billion. Thats just the fines, for manipulating trillion dollar a day markets, when Bitcoin is something like $100 billion in total. So they can do it (soon), they have now created the opportunity to do it, they will DO IT = VERY SOON.

Markers to watch out for:
Bankers making statements in the press about bitcoin being a bubble. Why do they bother? Are they putting their reputations on the line? Hell no! They are "scaring demand" off, so that the short possition will not get challenged once they start dropping the price. So far, I count 2 CEO's that have called it a bubble, there will be more but not before their posittions are in place. ie: They need the derivatives to start trading on the US main exchanges, so that they can build up big enough posittions to make it  sure thing and to make it worth it.



You do realize you can buy a fraction of a bitcoin right? You don't have to invest your life savings in order to get involved....

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November 04, 2017, 01:40:31 PM
 #36

Is there any way of betting on a price fall? I can't find any derivatives for that.

The price fall might come but not really now and I dont see it diving much and is not going to stay down for long if at all it falls. No derivatives (as you said) to keep it down for long. More and more awareness is coming to bitcoin and cryptocurrencies and we should remember that even the last fork that saw the emergence of bitcoin gold was not enough to cause a pull to bitcoin.

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November 04, 2017, 01:48:59 PM
 #37

Is there any way of betting on a price fall? I can't find any derivatives for that.
Easiest way it to just sell your bitcoins for USDT, if you don't have bitcoins then you will have to find some other way to short bitcoin.

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November 04, 2017, 02:02:22 PM
 #38

i think your mean is margin trading, right? if its margin trading, then i think you need to have big balance to start because without having big balance, you only makes small profit but its still worth to try. i think you can find margin trading in poloniex and you can start to try but you need to know how to predicting the trend and the chart before you place your order buy and order sell. but first you need to know how much balance you want to use for margin trading then you can start margin trading.
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November 05, 2017, 12:23:24 AM
 #39

You can use leverage at exchanges like Kraken or Bitstamp, buy puts or futures at Bitmex/OKcoin/Deribit and don't forget traditional FX brokers. I have tried Avatrade, the f*ckers closed my position with a fork and when I asked for a withdrawal, they were pretending not to know about it despite me sending them a confirmation email which I got weeks before. After weeks of messing with them, I got my money. I think they stole few % of the sum Roll Eyes I also tried XTB, they don't close positions because of forks and seem to be OK. I think they won't be making troubles upon withdrawal. Someone mentioned SimpleFX, also might be a way to go.
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November 07, 2017, 12:17:21 PM
 #40

I know many people will disagree with this, I wish Bitcoin could rule the world as well, but it will not happen. I think it’s a great thing BUT:
I agree with Bitcoin crashing. It’s actually easy to understand why? The higher the price goes up the more money it takes to buy 1 Bitcoin. So “artificially” the demand for the AMOUNT of Bitcoins is going down even when, the same “amount of money” is the demand. This effect gets more and more strained until it is impossible to sustain, because there is only so much money on earth. So it crashes, massively.

Real world example: (take my maths and figures as rough guides not facts)
Let’s say demand for bitcoin is just 2 people want to buy bitcoins, each day. (Just 2 to make the math easy)
Money in the market: They have $10 each. (Calculated as the average person’s disposable income, betting on just something for fun)

The math bit:
With the Price at $1: If the price of Bitcoin is $1 each, they will buy 10 coins each. So if there is 20 for sale, they can easily buy 20 of the exchanges. The price will stay the same as supply and demand matches. If there is just 19 available, the price will adjust and go up. Let’s say there is just 8 available, so the price jumps to $10 the next day.

Price at $10: Even though the price is up 1000% (from $1), at $10 each, they can only afford 1 coin each. SO, the demand for actual amount of coins decreased 90% (demand down 90%) simply because the price forced it. The actual amount of people or money did NOT. Next day…

Price at $100: Even though the price has surged another 900%. (From $10). They can only afford a fraction each and the demand for actual coins have gone down 1000%. Next day …

Price at $1000: Not going to bother with the math, but demand has dropped by over 100 000%

With Price at $10 000 000: Every person on earth will need to sell every real asset they have (EVERYTHING) and put it all into bitcoin. That’s every unit of money in every currency on earth, has to dedicate to just one asset, just to keep the price stable. If the difference between buyers and sellers (over every exchange on earth) is just 100 coins too much, the market will have to adjust the price for a $1billion shortfall.
Obviously it cannot get to $10million, as every person on earth is not going to sell their house, car, cat, shares, pensions, etc.  for a Bitcoin.

So the question is:
At what point do people stop to sell real life assets to put into Bitcoin? THAT is the start of the crash. As the price rises the amount of money that has to inflow has to exponentially increase to keep the prices stable and going up, until the inflow is not enough. BOOM!!!

Top theoretical price valuation model for 1 Bitcoin before a crash: (making some assumptions and guessing the rest)
So China is 90% of Bitcoin trading.
In theory every Chinese person 1.2 billion buys $1000 of Bitcoins.
Taking $1000 as hey average disposable income, per capita.
We assume that once every Chinese person has spent their $1000 no more will buy.
That’s 1.2 billion times $1000 = $1.2 trillion is the 90% maximum value of Bitcoin before it runs out of steam.
SO let’s say $1.5 trillion total.
Current total value is around $110 billion at $7000, the top possible price to lay somewhere around $ 95454.54 (assuming 15714285.71 Bitcoins in circulation)

Top price before crash:
My guesstimate is a crash from between $9600 (says the maths) and  $12000 (adding some cool factor/hype into price) as the top price paid on any exchange.

How long before a crash:
We are at $7000 and the price can go up by $1000 in a day so anywhere from 10 days to 6 months. My crappy math says within 30 days, but I’ll say 6 months because the math can be off by months and thousands.

Logically summing up:
An underlying asset needs to have more than “cool factor”. My house I live in, my car I drive, gold I can make things with, websites I can sell things and make money with. Bitcoin is what, besides cool and new, like currency does not exist. There are over 100 currencies, the difference is a central bank to make sure everything stays balanced. The reality is that governments and bank will bring out their own versions, government licenced and enforced, just like the currencies we have now. This will render Bitcoin obsolete and worthless, except for cool factor, which I put at $50 each TOPS (just guessing). They have to bring out their own, so they can control and manage the amount is circulation and to know who’s paying who. Bitcoin cannot become a true alternative currency (an asset maybe but not a true currency) that all governments and banks will accept. More important you can’t tax it and you have no idea who paid who and for what. Governments’ needs taxes or they will go bust. So either Bitcoin goes to a reasonable price below $1000 (I say $50ish) - or - every government on earth goes bust, while every person on earth ONLY owns Bitcoins, nothing else.

Can the government/banks crash Bitcoin?
With what they have right now, obviously NO!They must have tried several times. So they have to create another way to wipe it out … how .. hang on! Let allow derivatives to be traded in the USA. Then they can take out a massive naked short position (or print money to afford it) and crash the price of the derivative, Bitcoin prices will respond and crash. Is that even possible has this been done before? Now how much did Goldman, JP Morgan, HSBC, Barclays pay in fines for manipulating prices using derivatives … IF I remember right, over $20 Billion. Thats just the fines, for manipulating trillion dollar a day markets, when Bitcoin is something like $100 billion in total. So they can do it (soon), they have now created the opportunity to do it, they will DO IT = VERY SOON.

Markers to watch out for:
Bankers making statements in the press about bitcoin being a bubble. Why do they bother? Are they putting their reputations on the line? Hell no! They are "scaring demand" off, so that the short possition will not get challenged once they start dropping the price. So far, I count 2 CEO's that have called it a bubble, there will be more but not before their posittions are in place. ie: They need the derivatives to start trading on the US main exchanges, so that they can build up big enough posittions to make it  sure thing and to make it worth it.



You do realize you can buy a fraction of a bitcoin right? You don't have to invest your life savings in order to get involved....
Investing saving into bitcoin is good because bitcoin has a lot to give on low revenue and buying fraction is not that profit as whole bitcoin so invest saving this will give you ease to use your savings as money and as well as automatically profit will come and I also invest my savings into bitcoin and now I am living an epic life without any worries because I know that this coin will help me in my hard times to overcome it,

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