EU network of BTC exchangers

[Mahkul]

This came up during the discussion here: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2337.msg31338

It would be great if we could establish a network connecting all people in the European Union that would be willing to offer exchange services (between BTC and EUR). The purpose of this would be making it easy for people in different countries to buy BTC. Of course, it would have to be based on trust between the exchangers.
A big problem here is that the supply of Bitcoins in Europe seems to be short (at least in certain countries).

Let's take a look at the following example:

A guy in Belgium wants to buy Bitcoins, but there is no local exchange in Belgium or the local exchanger in Belgium doesn't have the emount of Bitcoins needed. There is an exchanger in Ireland who has enough bitcoins, but transfers between Ireland and Belgium are not free (it's just an assumption for the argument's sake).
However, there is another exchanger in the UK, who again may not have enough bitcoins to satisfy the Belgian guy's needs - but wired transfers between UK and Ireland, and between Belgium and UK are free (again, assumption).

Now, if the network between Belgium, Ireland and UK existed - the Belgian guy could transfer the money for free to his Belgian exchange. Then the Belgian exchanger informs the guy in Ireland that the money arrived; he then can transfer bitcoins to the Belgian customer. Then the Belgian exchanger transfers the money to UK, from where it is transfered to Ireland (all for free). I know this is time consuming and slow, but FREE and perhaps some kind of an automated process could be developed in time.

It is just an idea, please let me know what you think of it.

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[slush]

Primary I want to trade BTC/CZK in Czech Republic to spread Bitcoin locally, but I think abroad connection to other sellers can be handy. For example when I will need to buy another bunch of bitcoins to sell them for CZK here.

[Mahkul]

Primary I want to trade BTC/CZK in Czech Republic to spread Bitcoin locally, but I think abroad connection to other sellers can be handy. For example when I will need to buy another bunch of bitcoins to sell them for CZK here.

It is quite possible that there is a way to transfer money freely between Czech Republic and Poland for free. Perhaps we could arrange something; please PM me if you are interested in buying BTC. It would probably be handy for you to have a foreign currency account (EUR) in your bank. This way you could freely transfer EUR without paying the exchange rate.

[Mahkul]

By the way, I am planning on doing exactly the same thing in Poland - exchange between PLN and BTC.

[genjix]

I am willing to do exchanges in the Netherlands for € and I also have an English bank in £ (has online banking).

Buy £
Buy €
Sell £
Buy €

I can also accept $ through FreeMoney but that'd be more expensive

[Mahkul]

I am willing to do exchanges in the Netherlands for € and I also have an English bank in £ (has online banking).

Buy £
Buy €
Sell £
Buy €

I can also accept $ through FreeMoney but that'd be more expensive

I am planning on starting offering BTC for cash and wire-transfer in Ireland. The problem is, as I mentioned above, that I do not have enough coins and I am not interested in buying them at a loss (by any way of transferring money that is not free).

Do you have a large amount of coins? If so, maybe I could find a way to transfer the money to you free of charge (perhaps to that UK bank account of yours) and find some customers here in Ireland?

[genjix]

Do you wish to buy 1800 BTC for £322 by means of bank deposit?

Edit: don't Rep. Ireland use €? I think transferring between us won't be free...

[Mahkul]

Do you wish to buy 1800 BTC for £322 by means of bank deposit?

Edit: don't Rep. Ireland use €? I think transferring between us won't be free...

Allied Irish Banks will do a free transfer as long as it is below 5000 euro and your account can accept Euro. If your account only accepts GBP they would apply their exchange rate, which probably isn't very attractive.

But you said you were in Holland? Maybe there is a way of transferring Euro to Holland free of charge, I will look into it.

According to my on-line currency converter £322 = €379, which would suit me.

In general my bank in Ireland can do free transfers to most of EU countries free of charge; however, it seems like for some reason the banks in the way charge their commissions, because very seldom the exact amount reaches the destination. I was told that this happens if you do not provide destination bank's SWIFT code, but I did provide it and still was charged for my recent transfer to Finland... I wonder is there anyway of tracing how one's transfer travels across the banks.

Anyway, we can give it a try if you have a Dutch account. Please send me a PM.

[genjix]

sorry someone just snapped them up.

I'll be getting more though soon, so PM me and I'll have your name to keep you posted.

cya

[Mahkul]

sorry someone just snapped them up.

I'll be getting more though soon, so PM me and I'll have your name to keep you posted.

cya

Indeed I shall.

[caveden]

It would be really nice to have an euro exchange.

[Mahkul]

It would be really nice to have an euro exchange.

As I said I would have no problem whatsoever with setting one up in Ireland or Poland that would be accepting wire-transfers or cash (personally or by mail). The only issue that's there - I do not have enough coins and it costs me too much to buy them from mtgox (buy Liberty Reserves dollars by doing a wire-transfer at a loss plus the transfer cost) to be able to sell them at an attractive rate.

I need an European supplier who would give me a good rate and to which I could transfer the money free of charge. Again, I am repeating myself.

I have good experience with Bitcoinexchange.com, but the price was a little bit high and also, the wire transfer was not free.

[caveden]

The transfer was free to me (I live in France).

So, what you want to create isn't exactly an exchange but a "selling site", right? Because if it was an exchange you shouldn't bother with having enough coins.

Well, sorry, but I can't help you there... I don't have that many bitcoins, and I'd like to buy more instead of sell, so...

[Mahkul]

The transfer was free to me (I live in France).

So, what you want to create isn't exactly an exchange but a "selling site", right? Because if it was an exchange you shouldn't bother with having enough coins.

Well, sorry, but I can't help you there... I don't have that many bitcoins, and I'd like to buy more instead of sell, so...

I would love to create an exchange, but that would require an engine similar to mtgox - with current EUR/BTC rate; at the moment I don't have time (and probably not enough programming skills as well) to do it. A "selling site" would be much easier to create, it would not have to be automated; all you do is put a form out there and generate a bitcoin address with a reference number for each transaction (which doesn't even have to take place if someone changes his/her mind).

If anyone is thinking about creating an European exchange please give me a shout. Maybe we could work something out!

[davout]

I'm thinking about creating an European exchange.
Any ideas about what should be implemented in the process ?

[Mahkul]

I'm thinking about creating an European exchange.
Any ideas about what should be implemented in the process ?

I think the main question is are we (supposedly) going to be matchmaking people or are we going to have our coins/euro on the offer? I think mtgox is matchmaking people rather than using their own supply of coins/money?

The other thing is that there would have to be a way of calculating the current Bitcoin rate in relation to Euros; a graph should be present on the website. Would you know any good way of doing it?

[davout]

I think the main question is are we (supposedly) going to be matchmaking people or are we going to have our coins/euro on the offer? I think mtgox is matchmaking people rather than using their own supply of coins/money?

I'd like to implement matchmaking using e-currency rather than accepting bank wires from people, I think it's way too dangerous to accept wires, if it gets successful you're bound to attract bad government people and face money laundering charges. But that's only my opinion

The other thing is that there would have to be a way of calculating the current Bitcoin rate in relation to Euros; a graph should be present on the website. Would you know any good way of doing it?

That's if you want to be an exchanger and make a profit by buying and re-selling currency, not exactly what I want to do, additionnally, I think the BTC/EUR rate should be purely market-regulated which makes things much easier

[Mahkul]

I'd like to implement matchmaking using e-currency rather than accepting bank wires from people, I think it's way too dangerous to accept wires, if it gets successful you're bound to attract bad government people and face money laundering charges. But that's only my opinion

If you do that it won't be much different from mtgox (I mean using e-currencies - it doesn't make any difference to me whether I get Liberty Reserves Dollars for USD (I can use paypal) or EUR (wire-transfer) - I lose money and time either way. I don't want LR Dollars - I just want to buy BTC for Euro). I wouldn't have a problem with accepting wires, you can always use 10 or 20 different bank accounts and no-one will be asking questions unless you are getting thousands of Euro on each every month (and when it comes to it - you can always us someone else's account to split it - wife's, brother's, mother's etc. ) - but that's if we were not matchmaking people, but exchanging our own resources. Cash is another option if the customers were in your country.

To matchmake people using wire transfers would be totally not feasible IMHO (small transactions and time-consuming). So the question is - what kind of e-currency should we be using? It would have to be one that you can easily buy for Euro, but at the same time you cannot charge back easily. Either that or somehow do it directly for Euro.

That's if you want to be an exchanger and make a profit by buying and re-selling currency, not exactly what I want to do, additionnally, I think the BTC/EUR rate should be purely market-regulated which makes things much easier

I would like it to be market regulated too - what I meant was what mechanism would you use to make it market-regulated? With dark-pools on mtgox it is a little bit confusing, would you just sync it with them?

[davout]

If you do that it won't be much different from mtgox (I mean using e-currencies - it doesn't make any difference to me whether I get Liberty Reserves Dollars for USD (I can use paypal) or EUR (wire-transfer) - I lose money and time either way. I don't want LR Dollars - I just want to buy BTC for Euro). I wouldn't have a problem with accepting wires, you can always use 10 or 20 different bank accounts and no-one will be asking questions unless you are getting thousands of Euro on each every month (and when it comes to it - you can always us someone else's account to split it - wife's, brother's, mother's etc. ) - but that's if we were not matchmaking people, but exchanging our own resources. Cash is another option if the customers were in your country.

Yea, you're right, but that is time-consuming and involves taking legal risks.

To matchmake people using wire transfers would be totally not feasible IMHO (small transactions and time-consuming). So the question is - what kind of e-currency should we be using? It would have to be one that you can easily buy for Euro, but at the same time you cannot charge back easily. Either that or somehow do it directly for Euro.

I vote liberty reserve and liqpay, I'm definitely very far from an expert at e-currency though, maybe nanaimogold has some tips.

I would like it to be market regulated too - what I meant was what mechanism would you use to make it market-regulated? With dark-pools on mtgox it is a little bit confusing, would you just sync it with them?

Yes, it's a bit confusing, but nonetheless market regulated.
I don't really like dark pools, I think BTC rate would be much lower without them, but then again, if people want to buy/sell without the transactions getting advertised it's theirs to decide I guess

[Mahkul]

We'll definitely get back to this. Unfortunately I have to go and study. :/ Damn exams right before Christmas and it's so hard to get away from the forum.

Will be back later anyway.