Bitcoin to euro (~500 000e) where will I pay no tax/ as low tax as possible?

[SBMiner]

I'm in the crypto game since 2012, I have quite a lot of bitcoin I've been hodling since then.
Unfortunately, I have an urgent need to liquidate about 500 000 euros worth.

Where in the European Union can I do it with no tax, or as little tax as possible?

I searched the net, this forum, I know this list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_bitcoin_by_country_or_territory#Europe

All I found was speculation, I haven't found a single person who did it and can testify from experience.

And I heard about Germany and Denmark, but I don't speak these language very well, and I think most of the information is buried in local
discussion groups.

Can anyone attest from personal experience about a large scale conversion (100K and above) to a European bank account,
and tell about tax policies that were enacted? From 2017 if possible, since things change, many of the threads I found were from 2014.

No speculation please, no opinions, real world experience only!
I want to do everything legally, but as cheaply as possible.

If you don't want to expose yourself also PMs are welcome.
Thanks a lot!

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[BitcoinCurve~]

Your going have to talk to an accountant if you want a legit answer and something related to your case.

[SBMiner]

For sure, but an accountant from where?
That's the question.
Most accountants are only aware of their local regulations.

I suppose I could try to find an office that specializes in pan-European regulations,
but I will have to find one that also deals with crypto.

I'm not sure such exist, or how to find one.

[HeRetiK]

Germany and Austria both don't tax Bitcoin sales after a provable holding time of at least one year. I don't know anything about Denmark.


Of Germany I know due to following the German local boards.

Of Austria I know due to living in Austria, having talked to my tax advisor and having done research on the subject matter using trusted sources -- ie. detailed analysis from tax advisors hired by the Austrian Bitcoin community and government statements.


To the best of my knowledge, tax policies regarding Bitcoin and income tax have changed neither in Germany nor in Austria since 2014.

If you sell Bitcoin as a private individual and not a company, there's no sales tax in Austria. I don't know the situation in Germany in this regard, but it seems to be similar.

I guess as neither German nor Austrian resident nor citizen, the challenge is finding a way to get "taxed" in either country, without falling into any regulatory edge cases where you need to pay tax after all.


Caveat: While I feel fairly confident about my knowledge of Bitcoin taxation in Austria (and to some extend Germany) I have no personal experience of converting amounts of 100k and above. I hope I could give some helpful inputs either way. Be aware that certain regulations may apply to SEPA bank transfers of ~10k and above, requiring you to notify authorities and possibly your bank(s) of said transactions. In Germany there's the "AWV Meldepflicht" for transactions of 12.5k and above, I'm sure there are similar regulations for other EU countries.

[wilhb81]

Germany and Austria both don't tax Bitcoin sales after a provable holding time of at least one year. I don't know anything about Denmark.


Of Germany I know due to following the German local boards.

Of Austria I know due to living in Austria, having talked to my tax advisor and having done research on the subject matter using trusted sources -- ie. detailed analysis from tax advisors hired by the Austrian Bitcoin community and government statements.


To the best of my knowledge, tax policies regarding Bitcoin and income tax have changed neither in Germany nor in Austria since 2014.

If you sell Bitcoin as a private individual and not a company, there's no sales tax in Austria. I don't know the situation in Germany in this regard, but it seems to be similar.

I guess as neither German nor Austrian resident nor citizen, the challenge is finding a way to get "taxed" in either country, without falling into any regulatory edge cases where you need to pay tax after all.


Caveat: While I feel fairly confident about my knowledge of Bitcoin taxation in Austria (and to some extend Germany) I have no personal experience of converting amounts of 100k and above. I hope I could give some helpful inputs either way. Be aware that certain regulations may apply to SEPA bank transfers of ~10k and above, requiring you to notify authorities and possibly your bank(s) of said transactions. In Germany there's the "AWV Meldepflicht" for transactions of 12.5k and above, I'm sure there are similar regulations for other EU countries.

Wow, sounds you have a lot of privileges living in a wonderful country, where taxation is waived when you sell Bitcoins

[HeRetiK]

Wow, sounds you have a lot of privileges living in a wonderful country, where taxation is waived when you sell Bitcoins

Don't worry, there's enough taxation on pretty much everything else

Also if you do day trading, sell Bitcoin before the minimum holding time, earn it via mining or selling goods and services, regular taxation still apply. This tax exemption after a minimum holding time used to apply to securities as well. There's no exemption for securities anymore, however bitcoins are no securities, so here we are.


For future reference, here is a more current, official statement on cryptocurrency taxation in Austria:

https://www.bmf.gv.at/steuern/kryptowaehrung_Besteuerung.html

German only, unfortunately, but I can tell you that as of July 25th 2017 the tax exemption on private sales after a minimum holding hodling time of one year still applies.

[SBMiner]

@HeRetik:

Thank you very much the helpful information.
As an EU citizen I can relatively easily relocate to either Austria or Germany.
It's not a problem if it saves me 150K euros in taxes.

Can you PM me or write here the contact details of said accountants and tax advisors?

Thanks again!

[HeRetiK]

@HeRetik:

Thank you very much the helpful information.
As an EU citizen I can relatively easily relocate to either Austria or Germany.
It's not a problem if it saves me 150K euros in taxes.

Can you PM me or write here the contact details of said accountants and tax advisors?

Thanks again!

You're welcome. For privacy reasons I won't be sharing my personal tax advisor, but I can refer you to Mag.(FH) Natalie Enzinger:

http://www.enzinger-stb.at/steuerberatung/index.php/en/

I don't know her personally, but she's the one that did the tax situation analysis for Bitcoin Austria and appears to have a focus on crypto-currencies.

Good luck out there! Feel free to PM me if you need further information sources that are hard to find for non-German speakers.

[Lieldoryn]

Cyprus is an offshore zone. Perhaps there will be easy to avoid high taxes. Also there are other ways. This can be done through cashing. In General, Fiat money provides many opportunities to avoid taxes. I'm not going to voice on the forum all the ways but a lot of them.

[SBMiner]

@Lieldoryn:

Interesting, I would like to hear more!
I will write you a PM later today.

[Skyborn]

When dealing with such a hefty amount of money it's extremely advisable to contact an accountant to totally sort you out. 500 thousand euros isn't a small amount of money and your government will try to tax your bitcoin earnings. I wouldn't advise doing it yourself, just get a professional in the game. It's good to do your research and all but if you mess up you could be charged for money laundering and dending on the country you reside in that's not a charge you want to face. Better safe than sorry.

[Embeco]

@HeRetik:

Thank you very much the helpful information.
As an EU citizen I can relatively easily relocate to either Austria or Germany.
It's not a problem if it saves me 150K euros in taxes.

Can you PM me or write here the contact details of said accountants and tax advisors?

Thanks again!

You're welcome. For privacy reasons I won't be sharing my personal tax advisor, but I can refer you to Mag.(FH) Natalie Enzinger:

http://www.enzinger-stb.at/steuerberatung/index.php/en/

I don't know her personally, but she's the one that did the tax situation analysis for Bitcoin Austria and appears to have a focus on crypto-currencies.

Good luck out there! Feel free to PM me if you need further information sources that are hard to find for non-German speakers.

Can definitely recommend Natalie Enzinger. There is nobody I know of that has more knowledge regarding the blockchain topic than her. Be careful though, there are other consultants in Austria I would not trust. If you need more information regarding that feel free to contact me via PM.