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MooC Tals (OP)
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June 15, 2013, 03:32:20 PM
 #1

These are just my feelings on the whole Idea of Bitcoin. In all honesty I see a very hostile environment. As a new person to bitcoin I can't see this as a welcoming forum. I see the same as every other aspect of society.

The leaders seem to be on the take, the manufactures of devices either only accept bitcoins which someone who is starting does not have or accept pre-orders and ship after ROI has almost vanished. The difficulty is rising so fast that in order to make more than breaking even one must make a large sunk cost to have any chance.

There is no avenue for small investors that empathizes with the motto of Bitcoin decentralization. At the same time I don't want to say I am naive to believe that companies and or organization would give out free opportunities. So why would anyone want to invest in something that is so hostile to new people.

As the only reason why I sit here on this forum is to see how this all ends up. Me being curios is the only reason as to why I sit here and watch the worst of humanity conducts its business.

GPU's are dead
small Asics are sold in large batches to stay above the difficulty curve to be able to make money. I don't know about you but I don't trust group buys
Asics are going to less decentralized members

There is no room for me. To be honest I think I never was in and although I have tried and have given bitcoin more than enough of my attention I have seen the worst in people.

I'll watch some more and then go on to other things. Hope that does not happen in a large scale.
knybe
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decentralize EVERYTHING...


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June 15, 2013, 03:42:01 PM
 #2

Bitcoin is money, not an investment opp.

And, you will experience whatever your mind focuses on.
suryc
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June 15, 2013, 03:52:01 PM
 #3

Bitcoin is money, not an investment opp.

And, you will experience whatever your mind focuses on.

+1

I completely agree with this. If your interest in bitcoin is because you think you can make a quick buck, you're here for the wrong reasons. However, there are still opportunities to make money in bitcoin, but it should not be viewed primarily as an investment or get rich quick scheme.

.
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wachtwoord
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June 15, 2013, 03:54:00 PM
 #4

Bitcoin is money, not an investment opp.

It's actually both.
Elwar
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June 15, 2013, 04:16:17 PM
 #5

Do not buy bitcoins at the current low price.

First seastead company actually selling sea homes: Ocean Builders https://ocean.builders  Of course we accept bitcoin.
wachtwoord
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June 15, 2013, 04:18:41 PM
 #6

Do not buy bitcoins at the current low price.

You mean: leave more for me? Wink
worldtreasurefinders
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June 15, 2013, 04:21:03 PM
 #7

There is no avenue for small investors that empathizes with the motto of Bitcoin decentralization.

You're kidding, right?  Anyone in the world, anywhere in the world, with as little as a couple hundred $ to invest can have their own mining rig set up and working for them.  To invest in bitcoins you need nothing more than your own computer and an internet connection.

Architect, Anarchist, Numismatist, Crypto-Enthusiast.
Elwar
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June 15, 2013, 04:27:01 PM
 #8

Do not buy bitcoins at the current low price.

You mean: leave more for me? Wink

Wink

First seastead company actually selling sea homes: Ocean Builders https://ocean.builders  Of course we accept bitcoin.
meanig
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June 15, 2013, 04:35:52 PM
 #9

These are just my feelings on the whole Idea of Bitcoin. In all honesty I see a very hostile environment. As a new person to bitcoin I can't see this as a welcoming forum. I see the same as every other aspect of society.

The leaders seem to be on the take, the manufactures of devices either only accept bitcoins which someone who is starting does not have or accept pre-orders and ship after ROI has almost vanished. The difficulty is rising so fast that in order to make more than breaking even one must make a large sunk cost to have any chance.

blah blah blah blah..........................

Sell some junk on Bitmit if you want to earn coins
MooC Tals (OP)
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June 15, 2013, 04:38:32 PM
 #10

There is no avenue for small investors that empathizes with the motto of Bitcoin decentralization.

You're kidding, right?  Anyone in the world, anywhere in the world, with as little as a couple hundred $ to invest can have their own mining rig set up and working for them.  To invest in bitcoins you need nothing more than your own computer and an internet connection.

No that is not true. I have mined litecoins and bitcoins and many alt derivatives of such. The investing of present computer power is wasted. I also said new to bitcoins.

GPU's are out. Obsolete. Asics are throwing difficulty higher and faster than before when GPU's were all the rage. 22% jump in difficulty every 2 weeks is very hostile to any miner. Especially the emerging miner as I was.

Litecoin difficulty has only been tempered due to price of under 3.00. There is no place in which a new miner can fit in when old miners are in flux between bitcoin and Litecoin.

The alternate coin currencies get their value from Bitcoin. Alts are never worth mining unless you hold and you need to understand which to hold. Spending 200 dollars in electricity on a hunch that it will increase is not what I consider an investment.

Although I sound bitter I am not I'm giving my perspective on this whole idea. One I see very hostile to new comers.
franky1
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June 15, 2013, 04:42:03 PM
 #11

These are just my feelings on the whole Idea of Bitcoin. In all honesty I see a very hostile environment. As a new person to bitcoin I can't see this as a welcoming forum. I see the same as every other aspect of society.

The leaders seem to be on the take, the manufactures of devices either only accept bitcoins which someone who is starting does not have or accept pre-orders and ship after ROI has almost vanished. The difficulty is rising so fast that in order to make more than breaking even one must make a large sunk cost to have any chance.

There is no avenue for small investors that empathizes with the motto of Bitcoin decentralization. At the same time I don't want to say I am naive to believe that companies and or organization would give out free opportunities. So why would anyone want to invest in something that is so hostile to new people.

As the only reason why I sit here on this forum is to see how this all ends up. Me being curios is the only reason as to why I sit here and watch the worst of humanity conducts its business.

GPU's are dead
small Asics are sold in large batches to stay above the difficulty curve to be able to make money. I don't know about you but I don't trust group buys
Asics are going to less decentralized members

There is no room for me. To be honest I think I never was in and although I have tried and have given bitcoin more than enough of my attention I have seen the worst in people.

I'll watch some more and then go on to other things. Hope that does not happen in a large scale.

you seem to have a one track mind revolving around mining.

bitcoin is a whole economy, imagine it like a new country being born with its own currency. there are training opportunities, retail opportunities, manufacturing, freelance opportunities, etc etc. the bitcoin world is your oyster. if you can't afford a mining rig then set up a shop selling groceries, clothing, DIY products, rent out apartment complexes, offer many other services like electrician, cable TV installers, plumbers.

bitcoin is not just about mining

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
meanig
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June 15, 2013, 04:43:36 PM
 #12

There is no avenue for small investors that empathizes with the motto of Bitcoin decentralization.

You're kidding, right?  Anyone in the world, anywhere in the world, with as little as a couple hundred $ to invest can have their own mining rig set up and working for them.  To invest in bitcoins you need nothing more than your own computer and an internet connection.

No that is not true. I have mined litecoins and bitcoins and many alt derivatives of such. The investing of present computer power is wasted. I also said new to bitcoins.

GPU's are out. Obsolete. Asics are throwing difficulty higher and faster than before when GPU's were all the rage. 22% jump in difficulty every 2 weeks is very hostile to any miner. Especially the emerging miner as I was.

Litecoin difficulty has only been tempered due to price of under 3.00. There is no place in which a new miner can fit in when old miners are in flux between bitcoin and Litecoin.

The alternate coin currencies get their value from Bitcoin. Alts are never worth mining unless you hold and you need to understand which to hold. Spending 200 dollars in electricity on a hunch that it will increase is not what I consider an investment.

Although I sound bitter I am not I'm giving my perspective on this whole idea. One I see very hostile to new comers.

Nothing guarantees the value of the coins that you mine so mining has never been an investment, it's always been a gamble.

Get over yourself thinking that you've missed out on something. As a newcomer to Bitcoin (or any of the other alt coins) you face the exact same risks as all the newcomers who came before you.
tutkarz
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June 15, 2013, 04:58:11 PM
 #13

you seem to have a one track mind revolving around mining.

bitcoin is a whole economy, (...)

bitcoin is not just about mining

this. Why everybody wants to invest in mining. Sure its great because you set up your miner like fire and forget rocket and just count your bitcoins. But people really need to offer more services for bitcoin than just mine. Most people would earn more if they sell stuff for bitcoin or just buy bitcoins instead of mining rigs.

Explodicle
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June 15, 2013, 05:19:20 PM
Last edit: June 15, 2013, 06:04:02 PM by Explodicle
 #14

Keep in mind that it might just be a bubble - people might be expecting a high ROI on their mining gear that will never materialize, so they buy on credit. The guys "selling shovels" might be the ones getting rich today. During this time of year mining will be more profitable in the southern hemisphere, and even poor Australians have enough credit to buy an ASIC rig.

If you feel like the numbers aren't adding up, you could be right. The price will never be perfect, but by saying "enough" you're contributing useful information that will prevent it from becoming that much higher. If you could ALWAYS make a profit by mining, something would be wrong.
frott
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June 15, 2013, 05:27:21 PM
 #15

There is no avenue for small investors that empathizes with the motto of Bitcoin decentralization.

You're kidding, right?  Anyone in the world, anywhere in the world, with as little as a couple hundred $ to invest can have their own mining rig set up and working for them.  To invest in bitcoins you need nothing more than your own computer and an internet connection.

No that is not true. I have mined litecoins and bitcoins and many alt derivatives of such. The investing of present computer power is wasted. I also said new to bitcoins.

GPU's are out. Obsolete. Asics are throwing difficulty higher and faster than before when GPU's were all the rage. 22% jump in difficulty every 2 weeks is very hostile to any miner. Especially the emerging miner as I was.

Litecoin difficulty has only been tempered due to price of under 3.00. There is no place in which a new miner can fit in when old miners are in flux between bitcoin and Litecoin.

The alternate coin currencies get their value from Bitcoin. Alts are never worth mining unless you hold and you need to understand which to hold. Spending 200 dollars in electricity on a hunch that it will increase is not what I consider an investment.

Although I sound bitter I am not I'm giving my perspective on this whole idea. One I see very hostile to new comers.


I don't mean to be hostile, as that would be essentially proving your point, but the one thing I see over and over again regarding "investment opportunities" and purchasing mining rigs is a cost-effectivity analysis regarding power usage, cost of hardware, and projected difficulty.

While all of that is true, the issue is the barrier of entry to purchasing bitcoins directly, legally and safely.


There is only incentive for those who are mining to not encourage others to mine. Bottomline.


The often omitted fact is that you could essentially project bitcoins to multiply in value over the next few years. Remember the bubble projections of $1,000+ by January 2014? How about by January 2020?

At that point, sure, mining is still less efficient than purchasing outright. But it is far more self-sufficient and doesn't have the tons and tons of issues people of all "skill level" have encountered. Yes, you're converting electricity bills and equipment into BTC, partially, but the point is the BTC have the potential to multiply in value.

Some folks like the idea of mining versus the risk/issues involved with purchasing outright.


And to qualify your statements further: sure, bitcoin mining is hostile to newcomers. So is gold mining. So is inventing MooCdollars.

But bitcoin itself? The main hostility here is that "most people" are currently resigned to accepting fiat, centralized cash, zero privacy for consumer protection and whatever fees these tools we need declare fair.

Bitcoin as an internet bartering system where you are using digital tokens when providing services or goods is fine. But the folks who are currently using bartering systems (that haven't been shut down as illegal) are not necessarily computer savvy, they're more hippie-ish and communist. And then the vast majority of people need that exchange between fiat and btc in order to make use out of btc.

since, again, most people in the world don't offer "goods" or "services" outside of where they work, that isn't exactly an inviting loop, because money always involves other people. You're telling PERSON A to invest in a system that requires PERSONS B-ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ to recognize its value. That is where the hostility comes into play.


FUD against bitcoin, perceived hostility against bitcoin, and the few places on the web where there is consistent information about bitcoin mostly being flat out garbage, are a counterforce to the steady adoption rate. Add in the clear incentive to keep anyone adopting it out of the picture as long as possible for those using bitcoin strictly as an investment/profiteering instrument and of course it seems hostile.


If you, however, consider bitcoin to be the asking of the question "What if bitcoin...?" then here we are. Any assertion as to what it is supposed to be or do is fair game, and there are forces that have more authority or influence over that than say, you or I might have. In the end perhaps where it ends up and why it ended up there will be transparent and "known to all."

But, I mean, crypto... so, you know, "they" will be sure to spin the eventualities to "their" profit. Seeing as how excruciatingly near 100% those engaging with bitcoin, watching it, whatever have 0 idea of its true origins and steering, and any answer as to what it was would always be doubtable... in short, no, we can't know these things. So making assertions about what it is are equally fantastic, because any individual might have a unique experience based on so many factors... the "general experience" is irrelevant.









darkmule
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June 15, 2013, 05:44:57 PM
 #16

These are just my feelings on the whole Idea of Bitcoin. In all honesty I see a very hostile environment. As a new person to bitcoin I can't see this as a welcoming forum. I see the same as every other aspect of society.

This forum is not Bitcoin.

Nor, if it's ever going to be generally accepted money, is mining Bitcoin.  Mining remains a considerably high risk activity that many will not engage in.
cp1
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June 15, 2013, 05:58:27 PM
 #17

If you don't want to mine, just buy a few bitcoins and operate a bitcoind node.

Guide to armory offline install on USB key:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=241730.0
Raoul Duke
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June 15, 2013, 06:00:57 PM
 #18

Oh, another one that goes away after realising he will not get rich in 2 weeks, but not before posting to the forums how disappointed he is with this whole bitcoin thing.
Godspeed!
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June 15, 2013, 07:44:17 PM
 #19

These are just my feelings on the whole Idea of Bitcoin. In all honesty I see a very hostile environment. As a new person to bitcoin I can't see this as a welcoming forum. I see the same as every other aspect of society.

The leaders seem to be on the take, the manufactures of devices either only accept bitcoins which someone who is starting does not have or accept pre-orders and ship after ROI has almost vanished. The difficulty is rising so fast that in order to make more than breaking even one must make a large sunk cost to have any chance.

There is no avenue for small investors that empathizes with the motto of Bitcoin decentralization. At the same time I don't want to say I am naive to believe that companies and or organization would give out free opportunities. So why would anyone want to invest in something that is so hostile to new people.

As the only reason why I sit here on this forum is to see how this all ends up. Me being curios is the only reason as to why I sit here and watch the worst of humanity conducts its business.

GPU's are dead
small Asics are sold in large batches to stay above the difficulty curve to be able to make money. I don't know about you but I don't trust group buys
Asics are going to less decentralized members

There is no room for me. To be honest I think I never was in and although I have tried and have given bitcoin more than enough of my attention I have seen the worst in people.

I'll watch some more and then go on to other things. Hope that does not happen in a large scale.

you seem to have a one track mind revolving around mining.

bitcoin is a whole economy, imagine it like a new country being born with its own currency. there are training opportunities, retail opportunities, manufacturing, freelance opportunities, etc etc. the bitcoin world is your oyster. if you can't afford a mining rig then set up a shop selling groceries, clothing, DIY products, rent out apartment complexes, offer many other services like electrician, cable TV installers, plumbers.

bitcoin is not just about mining

If we go with your "new country issuing its own currency," we wind up in this ridiculous place:
Imagine a new country is born, with no industry, no possessions, and ... no land, and starts issuing its own currency -- BTC.  When other countries, in an understandable state of wtf, ask wtf, the new country tells everyone else to start (your list of suggestions to the OP).  
Please understand that currency, to be accepted, needs *something* to back it -- cows, land, threat, *something*.  You're putting the cart before the horse -- first currency, *then stuff*.
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June 15, 2013, 07:45:20 PM
 #20

The way I see it paranoia will be the destruction of Bitcoins. Everyone has NO TRUST in ANYONE.


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