Speeding Tickets

[420]

Have you been pulled over for speeding while you had a passenger with you before?

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[BASICasic]

Why do you think it makes a difference whether or not you have a passenger?

[420]

Why do you think it makes a difference whether or not you have a passenger?

because everything is subjective and the system works to a large degree on intimidation

[BASICasic]

because everything is subjective and the system works to a large degree on intimidation

I'm glad I don't live in the US. I can't answer the question either as speeding tickets don't really exist over here, I've never gotten one and probably never will.

[420]

because everything is subjective and the system works to a large degree on intimidation

I'm glad I don't live in the US. I can't answer the question either as speeding tickets don't really exist over here, I've never gotten one and probably never will.

what lucky country would that be

[DreDri]

I'm in the US and I've never gotten a speeding ticket in ten years of driving.

Parking tickets on the other hand. I've gotten enough ill-deserved parking tickets that I had to teach the Clerk a thing or two about the false security their boots provide.

It turned out to be a really hideous side table to a set of low-level chairs and a futon. Live and learn.

[Elwar]

I have been pulled over at least a dozen times. I got a speeding ticket once with no passenger.

I was in a Porsche flying down the highway late for my flight.

I can usually get out of it because I have a very young, innocent face and I pull the "I've never had a ticket before officer" with puppy dog look.

Does not work with red light cameras. I got one of those, I am not sure I was even driving.

[farlack]

I never heard of this ticket with a passenger thing.

[saddambitcoin]

Never had a speeding ticket but I drive a Geo.

[zedicus]

Speeding? 


 speeding, aiding and abetting racing, exhibition of speed..




Officer:  Do you know you were doing 65 in a 35 when you made that left turn from the right lane?



 

[420]

Speeding?  


 speeding, aiding and abetting racing, exhibition of speed..




Officer:  Do you know you were doing 65 in a 35 when you made that left turn from the right lane?
 

exhibition of speed, I bet you visually offended so many people!

I never heard of this ticket with a passenger thing.

just receiving a ticket while you have a passenger there listening to the whole thing. and probably the cop feels more comfortable if only has to deal with a solo driver

[QuantumKiwi]

Pursuits without a speeding ticket, with a passenger...

[zedicus]

Welcome to the bayarea..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XPty7nUafg


I see youre visually offended and raise you an officer in shock.  


Officer : Son ya just can do figure eights on the freeway!

 

[420]

Welcome to the bayarea..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XPty7nUafg


I see youre visually offended and raise you an officer in shock.  


Officer : Son ya just can do figure eights on the freeway!

A TRAFFIC MESS FOR AT LEAST 2 MINUTES!!! HAHA HAHAHAHA how tragic. fuck politically correct.

nothing was hurt was there?

wtf is this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tm_kh2s_1BQ#t=0m30s

[zedicus]

^^ nobody was hurt.. it was a car club acting a fool.

 
Depends on where ya at but if youre in deep east oakland you better be armed to the teeth!


Only thing that breaks up a sideshow is a shootout or lots of police ..  lotsss

Here is a clip where a mustang was doing donuts and shots get fired.. its particularly hilarious cause one guy was just walking through the video like "whatever"..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Tgvv72Wr0M&t=1m26s


Here is a friday night where a camaro and a corvette are doing donuts and right when the corvette finishes a figure 8 with the door open a cop shows up and they try to convince him to do donuts!!! LOOOOL

When that doesnt work out ..they kick his car and throw bottles and kick him out the sideshow! (does not com back!!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__0keXzMGC4&t=1m32s

 



 

[420]

yeah that was a waste of time investigating if there were no injuries or realistic delays whatsoever. like playing hopscotch on a packed stopped traffic jammed freeway wouldn't hold anyone up either.

and the 2nd vid

great now theres glass on the street who's going to have a fun sideshow now

[zedicus]

No worries.. they have a glass guy!

Delivery Thia, or Chinese food .. Ak's, 9mm,  coke, heron, hookers  .. on sight mechanic, tow truck..  

Now dont get me wrong ..there are role models sometimes.. on celebrity nights the warriors and raider players come by and do donuts ..  They tell everyone to put on a seatbelt and they warn everyone about the dangers of smoking weed and throwing Hennessy bottles at cops! Wouldnt wanna overload the glass guy with to much work.. I think he has a day job at the mayors office.




 

[skull88]

because everything is subjective and the system works to a large degree on intimidation

I'm glad I don't live in the US. I can't answer the question either as speeding tickets don't really exist over here, I've never gotten one and probably never will.

Where do you live? I got to move
I have about 2 speeding tickets a month, and lost my driving license twice for 2 weeks because of speeding, speed limits here are pretty low, so I don't know anybody that never had a few.

[herzmeister]

Wow, pulling over, where do you guys live? 70ies? Third world?

Here we have speed cameras, and you'll get a nice letter. 

The cameras kinda give a shit about passengers too.

[420]

Wow, pulling over, where do you guys live? 70ies? Third world?

Here we have speed cameras, and you'll get a nice letter. 

The cameras kinda give a shit about passengers too.

which in the US is illegal. there needs to be an actual witness not technology to testify against you

you must face your acuser, see 'due process' or 'habeus corpus'

[Foxpup]

which in the US is illegal. there needs to be an actual witness not technology to testify against you

you must face your acuser, see 'due process' or 'habeus corpus'

Wait, so you're saying if I put up cameras around my house to find out who's always smashing my windows when I'm away, and then I catch the guy on video, I don't have a case because there are no actual witnesses? I'm pretty sure that's not how it works. Wouldn't I be the witness, since they're my cameras? How is this any different?

[420]

which in the US is illegal. there needs to be an actual witness not technology to testify against you

you must face your acuser, see 'due process' or 'habeus corpus'

Wait, so you're saying if I put up cameras around my house to find out who's always smashing my windows when I'm away, and then I catch the guy on video, I don't have a case because there are no actual witnesses? I'm pretty sure that's not how it works. Wouldn't I be the witness, since they're my cameras? How is this any different?

maybe I mean it's the easy way to fight an infraction because someone has to come testify against you, and a camera is not likely to show up. whereas you're not imaging and recoding and trying to convict dozens of people for smashing your windows

[zedicus]

Wow, pulling over, where do you guys live? 70ies? Third world?

Here we have speed cameras, and you'll get a nice letter. 

The cameras kinda give a shit about passengers too.

Ok guys so since we have "Red light cameras" we need to stop at each "red light" and all the "stop signs" and dont drive on the other side of the road facing oncoming traffic.. and for the love of god stop doing donuts in the intersection!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgB4uwUXDYs



(at least they didnt do donuts)

 



 

[zedicus]

^^ Ironically the guy got hit in front of a bar and they were trying to find his killer from the cameras at the bar ... but i dont think they did!


Its really messed up!

[RoadToHell]

which in the US is illegal. there needs to be an actual witness not technology to testify against you

you must face your acuser, see 'due process' or 'habeus corpus'

Wait, so you're saying if I put up cameras around my house to find out who's always smashing my windows when I'm away, and then I catch the guy on video, I don't have a case because there are no actual witnesses? I'm pretty sure that's not how it works. Wouldn't I be the witness, since they're my cameras? How is this any different?

maybe I mean it's the easy way to fight an infraction because someone has to come testify against you, and a camera is not likely to show up. whereas you're not imaging and recoding and trying to convict dozens of people for smashing your windows

I think it's more the case that speeding tickets are given to drivers and not to cars.  As the owner of the car you can claim that you weren't driving the car at the time the photo was taken.  It used to be that way for red lights too.  I guess states that use the red light cameras changed their laws to accommodate the easy income.  I think that if you get a ran-the-red-light-photo ticket it does not impact your drivers license standing, whereas if you are pulled over multiple times for speeding you can lose your license.

[herzmeister]

you're visible in the car on the photo.

First they'll send you as the owner of the car a nice letter where you can admit you drove the car or not. You can specify that other person in that case.

You can try to go the route to refute, but eventually you'll have to appear at the police station or get a visit, and if there is enough similarity between you and the one on the photo, you're gonna have a hard time.

And even if you're successful, you'll be ordered to maintain a driver's log in the future.

[zedicus]

Clearly you guys dont shoot the red light cameras down the minute they go up!


Nonetheless, You can fight a red light ticket .. in fact, class action lawsuits all over claim the redlight cameras are rigged to change from yellow to red at an astrological pace versus their normal counterparts!

This i believe was found out by an engineer who got a ticket in the mail near a university he was attending and while having coffee at a local coffee shop he noticed the speed change from yellow to red and began timing all the cameras in a 5-10 block radius. Then he found out that the city (SF) had given a third party, "the makers of the red-light camera" a deal that they would get a huge percentage of the red-light camera runners they caught! Soon after .. class action lawsuits started cropping up.. A near by city Emeryville California was pressured by the public to take down the cameras after they were found to have generated millions of dollars of tickets a year with no improvement to accidents or public safety!


There was also a case which im not sure of the outcome but, a man got pulled over for a dui and was "forced" to take a breathalyzer test and it was determined that he was shit face drunk according to the machine!!

He later demanded to see the source code of the said device (firmware) and since it was proprietary the company refused !!  A big fiasco became of it and in the end they found some erorrs in the source code but the "courts" determined the device was reliable enough or something like that! If i remember correctly it was in MN!


Obviously there is nothing better than an expert witness ("cop testimony") but in cases where machines are liable for the determination of the said crime there are avenues to take that maybe in the favor of the defendant!


As an example! If you ever get a speeding ticket and you were determined by radar to have been speeding..  fight it!!!

when you get to court, if the officer shows up.. ask to see the certificate of the radar gun!! They have to be certified yearly and if the are not calibrated and tested then your case or ticket can be thrown out! 

 


 

[candoo]

Be happy that you dont live in Germany.  I get those tickets very often. You cant really see the speed check before!

[zedicus]

^^ hmm... looks like too much effort too take down! Lol



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szqwWbkHRy4&noredirect=1



Resume donuts!! 


I know how you guys roll!!! haha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73J-VS3e9-I

[Matthew N. Wright]

Back in California, I would spend weekends drifting in the mountains, flying to LA on the highway or seeing how fast we could get to Vegas and it all finally caught up with me with 2 out of the 3 allowed tickets. Both times were with passenger(s). I stopped driving for a while after that to avoid license suspension and ended up coming to Korea.

In the first 4 out of 9 years I've been here in Korea I've gotten possibly 50 speeding tickets (100% from speed cameras, and most were driving alone) and paid them all. Whenever a cop physically stopped me, it was a warning to not U-Turn or something to that nature.

As to why I don't get tickets anymore, the answer is my avatar.

Cause for discussion: Speeding is not dangerous. Airplanes do it all the time, with license. Wrecklessness and carelessness is dangerous. Why hasn't a country made a "speeding lane" or "speeding license" for better drivers yet? (Oh wait, they have, it's called a badge.)

[boewie]

Be happy that you dont live in Germany.  I get those tickets very often. You cant really see the speed check before!

Candoo, kenn ich! Die Dinger sind gemein

One of my friends once got a speedingticket; they sended him the photo, but (luckily) he has a twinbrother...So they both went to the police and told them they cant remember who has driven that time. Result: No ticket

Edit: True Story!

[malevolent]

Back in California, I would spend weekends drifting in the mountains, flying to LA on the highway or seeing how fast we could get to Vegas and it all finally caught up with me with 2 out of the 3 allowed tickets. Both times were with passenger(s). I stopped driving for a while after that to avoid license suspension and ended up coming to Korea.

You are only allowed 3 tickets? That sucks...

In Poland we have cameras like in Germany but fortunately not as many and the tickets are not as expensive.
And it won't be able to get a clear picture if someone drives >250 km/h  (but there aren't many roads where attaining such speed is possible).

[420]

Back in California, I would spend weekends drifting in the mountains, flying to LA on the highway or seeing how fast we could get to Vegas and it all finally caught up with me with 2 out of the 3 allowed tickets. Both times were with passenger(s). I stopped driving for a while after that to avoid license suspension and ended up coming to Korea.

In the first 4 out of 9 years I've been here in Korea I've gotten possibly 50 speeding tickets (100% from speed cameras, and most were driving alone) and paid them all. Whenever a cop physically stopped me, it was a warning to not U-Turn or something to that nature.

As to why I don't get tickets anymore, the answer is my avatar.

Cause for discussion: Speeding is not dangerous. Airplanes do it all the time, with license. Wrecklessness and carelessness is dangerous. Why hasn't a country made a "speeding lane" or "speeding license" for better drivers yet? (Oh wait, they have, it's called a badge.)

haha yeah apparently a badge is. because every time a cop catches up with you to pull you over, they just went FASTER than you did, and caused a change in speed that wouldn't have happened, plus nervousness, and stationary cars potentially by a high speed thoroughfare and then tell you the reason you get a ticket is because it is 'unsafe'

did you ever have an accident?

[Matthew N. Wright]

did you ever have an accident?

Most accidents were controlled situations where we pretty much figured we'd have an accident (trying ot do 360s on the highway and flipping a car upside down, etc), but once out drifting in the rain I did have an accident I didn't expect. It was kind of funny, the state trooper who first arrived asked me what I was doing on that dangerous cliff area at 2am in the rain and I said, "Well, me and my friends were driving out here at about 50mph and we lost traction in the rain and hit the rocks" and seeing me as the ignorant 18 year old I was with my whole life ahead of me, the trooper said, "so you were going 25mph and lost control, right?".

Good guy cop.

[Funky Al]

I've been pulled a few times in the uk, but only had a ticket when caught by a speed camera. I had passengers when pulled but not when caught by the camera (those intimidating swines!)

When driving from Yosemite to Vegas a few years back I was driving at around 120mph on an empty road when I saw the speck of a car in the distance behind me. Realising they were really gunning for it, I slowed down a bit and realised it was the police.

I wanted to make a break for the state line (I think I've seen that in films and I'm sure you're safe if you make it but my girlfriend talked me out of it.

After a stern talking to, they sent me on my way with a warning that if I was caught again if be in real trouble.

[Matthew N. Wright]

I wanted to make a break for the state line (I think I've seen that in films and I'm sure you're safe if you make it but my girlfriend talked me out of it.

Fun story, but in all seriousness, if you run from the cops and cross state lines, you're risking a federal warrant instead of a local ticket, as well as cooperating authorities on the other side continuing pursuit (also unlikely but possible). In Korea on a motorcycle, you don't even need to worry about that. Just go onto a highway, pull a U-turn, and that will be the shortest chase ever as they shake their fists at you.

[Funky Al]

I wanted to make a break for the state line (I think I've seen that in films and I'm sure you're safe if you make it but my girlfriend talked me out of it.

Fun story, but in all seriousness, if you run from the cops and cross state lines, you're risking a federal warrant instead of a local ticket, as well as cooperating authorities on the other side continuing pursuit (also unlikely but possible). In Korea on a motorcycle, you don't even need to worry about that. Just go onto a highway, pull a U-turn, and that will be the shortest chase ever.

I'd have never actually done it, but it would have made a fun story into an amazing one.

Edit: if I escaped of course.

[rumbitla]

Be happy that you dont live in Germany.  I get those tickets very often. You cant really see the speed check before!

Hast du kein Handy mit Blitzer.de App?
Don't you have a cell phone and the Blitzer.de App?  It is excellent and warns of all mobile and fixed speed checks. I wish we had something this good in Switzerland.

http://www.blitzer.de/

[Matthew N. Wright]

Be happy that you dont live in Germany.  I get those tickets very often. You cant really see the speed check before!

Hast du kein Handy mit Blitzer.de App?
Don't you have a cell phone and the Blitzer.de App?  It is excellent and warns of all mobile and fixed speed checks.

Same in Korea. Every GPS has it built in, it's kind of silly. Why even bother with the speed checks at all if everybody knows where they are? You just drive crazy, slow down for 500 meters, continue to drive crazy again.

[rumbitla]

In Poland we have cameras like in Germany but fortunately not as many and the tickets are not as expensive.

Germany is actually rather cheap.

Germany: 30km/h too fast: 80€
Here in Switzerland, 30km/h too fast: 800sfr = 650€

[Matthew N. Wright]

In Poland we have cameras like in Germany but fortunately not as many and the tickets are not as expensive.

Germany is actually rather cheap.

Germany: 30km/h too fast: 80€
Here in Switzerland, 30km/h too fast: 800sfr = 650€

The most expensive it's ever been for me was 260km/h = $120 (the ridiculous thing about tickets in Korea is they don't contribute to any strikes, so as long as you weren't drinking and pay the fines, you can keep in speeding)

[malevolent]

In Poland we have cameras like in Germany but fortunately not as many and the tickets are not as expensive.

Germany is actually rather cheap.

Germany: 30km/h too fast: 80€
Here in Switzerland, 30km/h too fast: 800sfr = 650€

 

That's tough.
Poland 30km/h over the limit: between 22.5 and 45€

[Foxpup]

I wanted to make a break for the state line (I think I've seen that in films and I'm sure you're safe if you make it but my girlfriend talked me out of it.

Fun story, but in all seriousness, if you run from the cops and cross state lines, you're risking a federal warrant instead of a local ticket, as well as cooperating authorities on the other side continuing pursuit (also unlikely but possible)

It's unlikely because it's usually completely unnecessary. Despite what you've seen in films, state police are in fact allowed to follow you across state lines and arrest you (assuming they were actively pursuing you from the start; if you're already in another state before the police are on to you, they can't do anything except get an extradition warrant).

[420]

I've been pulled a few times in the uk, but only had a ticket when caught by a speed camera. I had passengers when pulled but not when caught by the camera (those intimidating swines!)

When driving from Yosemite to Vegas a few years back I was driving at around 120mph on an empty road when I saw the speck of a car in the distance behind me. Realising they were really gunning for it, I slowed down a bit and realised it was the police.

I wanted to make a break for the state line (I think I've seen that in films and I'm sure you're safe if you make it but my girlfriend talked me out of it.

After a stern talking to, they sent me on my way with a warning that if I was caught again if be in real trouble.

man you must have a pretty face, they just keep letting you go

or my theory was correct that you're less likely to get a ticket when there's passengers with someone

The most expensive it's ever been for me was 260km/h = $120 (the ridiculous thing about tickets in Korea is they don't contribute to any strikes, so as long as you weren't drinking and pay the fines, you can keep in speeding)

hey, maximum revenue!

[Funky Al]

I've been pulled a few times in the uk, but only had a ticket when caught by a speed camera. I had passengers when pulled but not when caught by the camera (those intimidating swines!)

When driving from Yosemite to Vegas a few years back I was driving at around 120mph on an empty road when I saw the speck of a car in the distance behind me. Realising they were really gunning for it, I slowed down a bit and realised it was the police.

I wanted to make a break for the state line (I think I've seen that in films and I'm sure you're safe if you make it but my girlfriend talked me out of it.

After a stern talking to, they sent me on my way with a warning that if I was caught again if be in real trouble.

man you must have a pretty face, they just keep letting you go

Well, I'm not a bad looking chap, but certainly no heartthrob. 

I find you've you got to be apologetic, but not over the top. If it comes across as insincere you're in trouble.

Talk to them as an equal and you should be fine (well I have anyway.)

[420]

I hate how punishments are given subjectively. Laws should be applied objectively

well I have victim-less crimes being crimes anyway

[Matthew N. Wright]

I hate how punishments are given subjectively. Laws should be applied objectively

well I have victim-less crimes being crimes anyway

It is very difficult to make rules for society that protect a few. It's a hard decision to make since we have what's called "human rights". If you want to say that humans have rights, then you have to also say that you shouldn't be allowed to do things that may or may not cause said humans harm (because of their right to not be afflicted by idiot drivers). On the other hand, we have pilots' licenses and police badges that allow excessive speed to people with training-- why can't said training be given to civilians who are interested as well?

[420]

I hate how punishments are given subjectively. Laws should be applied objectively

well I have victim-less crimes being crimes anyway

It is very difficult to make rules for society that protect a few. It's a hard decision to make since we have what's called "human rights". If you want to say that humans have rights, then you have to also say that you shouldn't be allowed to do things that may or may not cause said humans harm (because of their right to not be afflicted by idiot drivers). On the other hand, we have pilots' licenses and police badges that allow excessive speed to people with training-- why can't said training be given to civilians who are interested as well?

protect our rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

it is not our right to deter random inconvenient events that affect your 'pursuit of happiness' for example your money being stolen, or your house burning down. The state (police) are there to punish crimes not prevent crimes, that's been said many times by judges who interpret the law

there needs to be a threshold of immediate danger.

shooting a full clip at someone 10ft away (by an unskilled gunman or something shooting randomly) could have 40% chance of hitting someone and 15% chance of killing them.

speeding on a highway has maybe 1% chance of an accident. with like 0.3% of an accident involving someone else. 0.05% involving serious injury or death of someone

I'm sure I've done it over 100 times. and 0 accidents under my belt

[Matthew N. Wright]

I'm sure I've done it over 100 times. and 0 accidents under my belt

You're the exception. Welcome to the club. Unfortunately, laws aren't made for the exceptions. What I'm saying is there should be exception licenses. You dig?

It's like the argument from drunks who say "I driiiive better whehhn intoxicated *hiccup*". Should they be allowed the "right" and not "punished" or "restricted"?

[420]

I'm sure I've done it over 100 times. and 0 accidents under my belt

You're the exception. Welcome to the club. Unfortunately, laws aren't made for the exceptions. What I'm saying is there should be exception licenses. You dig?

It's like the argument from drunks who say "I driiiive better whehhn intoxicated *hiccup*". Should they be allowed the "right" and not "punished" or "restricted"?

I'll dig.

punishment should be for a crime; as in, when you harm someone else.

DUI laws don't prevent drunk driving, just reduce it

speeding laws don't prevent speeding, just reduce it ever slightly. much less than drunk driving laws

[Matthew N. Wright]

I'm sure I've done it over 100 times. and 0 accidents under my belt

You're the exception. Welcome to the club. Unfortunately, laws aren't made for the exceptions. What I'm saying is there should be exception licenses. You dig?

It's like the argument from drunks who say "I driiiive better whehhn intoxicated *hiccup*". Should they be allowed the "right" and not "punished" or "restricted"?

I'll dig.

punishment should be for a crime; as in, when you harm someone else.

DUI laws don't prevent drunk driving, just reduce it

speeding laws don't prevent speeding, just reduce it ever slightly. much less than drunk driving laws

I agree with you that technology would help much of the world's needless laws become life policies instead, such as a car that only starts with a breathalyzer, but then you'd have idiots on the other side of the spectrum barking about their rights to drive drunk.

[malevolent]

I agree with you that technology would help much of the world's needless laws become life policies instead, such as a car that only starts with a breathalyzer,

No problem, as long as you are the one that covers the extra cost of the breathalyzer and it's my company that gets appropriate government certification/licensing/whatever-crap-they-come-up-with-to-regulate-it and becomes a breathalyzer monopoly.

but then you'd have idiots on the other side of the spectrum barking about their rights to drive drunk.

The owner of the road should be the only entity to decide whether drunk drivers should be allowed to use it.

[wdmw]

I agree with you that technology would help much of the world's needless laws become life policies instead, such as a car that only starts with a breathalyzer, but then you'd have idiots on the other side of the spectrum barking about their rights to drive drunk.

It doesn't seem that you are actually agreeing with him.  Cars that only start with a breathalyzer would be the opposite of what I understand that he is saying.

punishment should be for a crime; as in, when you harm someone else.

This means no 'drunk driving' laws.  You can drive drunk, but if you cause a collision and hurt someone, you are liable.

[420]

whoa whoa

but who should own the roads?

yeah, and we need facial recognition. or else people will just have their friend breathe into the breathalizer, or find another way to fool the machine like with an air compressor

punishment should be for a crime; as in, when you harm someone else.

This means no 'drunk driving' laws.  You can drive drunk, but if you cause a collision and hurt someone, you are liable.

exactly. I don't believe the state should decide 'what is drunk' let alone what is safe.

Murder is illegal, manslaughter is illega, destruction of property. things that actually harm people.

Drunk driving laws purpose are supposed to be to stop these things which are already illegal.

Cops can help better ways than violating our fourth amendment rights. Hang outside bars and see who gets drunk walking to their car. or convince its the bars responsibility.

for house parties, no one would know. people drive drunk, and make it safe or cause accidents. no police were in the middle. we would have to have a nanny state of cops on every block seeing everyone who comes/goes or car breathalizers (which people could hack etc....)

In the end I think too much money is going to law enforcement that we can't even tell how much bad things it is preventing. but we can easily tell how it gets in regular citizens ways. And their resources aren't used in other places

I think people who cause accidents are treated too leniently

[Matthew N. Wright]

whoa whoa

but who should own the roads?

As it's always been, the people who paid for them. And the people who paid for them are the citizens, who elected officials to make rules in their name to make society safer. In otherwords, everything is working exactly as we (apparently) want. If you want to change that, start by voting people into office/power that plan to dismantle the government one generation at a time.

[420]

whoa whoa

but who should own the roads?

As it's always been, the people who paid for them. And the people who paid for them are the citizens, who elected officials to make rules in their name to make society safer. In otherwords, everything is working exactly as we (apparently) want. If you want to change that, start by voting people into office/power that plan to dismantle the government one generation at a time.

if someone owns all the roads around you does that mean they can tell you you're not allowed to leave your little area inside? because you'd have to cross their property. or else fly on a helicopter

[Matthew N. Wright]

whoa whoa

but who should own the roads?

As it's always been, the people who paid for them. And the people who paid for them are the citizens, who elected officials to make rules in their name to make society safer. In otherwords, everything is working exactly as we (apparently) want. If you want to change that, start by voting people into office/power that plan to dismantle the government one generation at a time.

if someone owns all the roads around you does that mean they can tell you you're not allowed to leave your little area inside? because you'd have to cross their property. or else fly on a helicopter

As with the ancients who lived next to volcanoes, it's fight or flight. Pay attention to what's happening around you and where you live and be ready to leave in order to survive. When a bunch of gang members start blocking exits to a building, I will look for the few exits left open and use one. If they try to stop me when I'm leaving, fuck them. If they try to stop me while I continue to walk in and out of the building because I feel I have a "right to excercise my rights", fuck me. Pick and choose your battles gentlemen.

[420]

I'm just talking about in the legal sense.

you dont' think laws should be in place regarding right to travel, restricting movement, etc.?

[Matthew N. Wright]

I'm just talking about in the legal sense.

you dont' think laws should be in place regarding right to travel, restricting movement, etc.?

We're arguing different points from the exact same side it feels like. I'm not a libertard 420, I'm a rational thinker who understands flawed systems are in place due to flawed people and no matter what you do to change it, it will also be flawed, but that refreshing the systems with new updates ideas is essential and thus I follow all schools of thought I learn of, including libertarianism. The people here arguing that laws shouldn't exist, don't tread on me, blah blah blah are just more extremist/cultist/anarchist/libertarians who have never had their face punched in before by a total stranger and don't understand why some common sense measures in life are good.

I agree that speeding laws are flawed and dumb, but removing them doesn't solve anything. Education and training solves everything. In a decentralization obsessed community like ours (who ironically still uses a centralized and propaganda ridden forum), it behooves me why anyone would not understand that majority wins. Always. No one gives a shit about your rights, your abilities or your fairy dreams, because you're the minority. Try understanding the majority instead of fighting everything around you. Or do like I do and move to a country you can do what you want in.

[420]

I'm just talking about in the legal sense.

you dont' think laws should be in place regarding right to travel, restricting movement, etc.?

We're arguing different points from the exact same side it feels like. I'm not a libertard 420, I'm a rational thinker who understands flawed systems are in place due to flawed people and no matter what you do to change it, it will also be flawed, but that refreshing the systems with new updates ideas is essential and thus I follow all schools of thought I learn of, including libertarianism. The people here arguing that laws shouldn't exist, don't tread on me, blah blah blah are just more extremist/cultist/anarchist/libertarians who have never had their face punched in before by a total stranger and don't understand why some common sense measures in life are good.

I agree that speeding laws are flawed and dumb, but removing them doesn't solve anything. Education and training solves everything. In a decentralization obsessed community like ours (who ironically still uses a centralized and propaganda ridden forum), it behooves me why anyone would not understand that majority wins. Always. No one gives a shit about your rights, your abilities or your fairy dreams, because you're the minority. Try understanding the majority instead of fighting everything around you. Or do like I do and move to a country you can do what you want in.

I legitimately wanted your opinion on the particular laws that I mentioned in regards to peronsl movement.

I too think government definitely lacks in educating and providing information and instead uses too much force which doesn't change people's beliefs and only changes their behavior through intimidation

[Matthew N. Wright]

I legitimately wanted your opinion on the particular laws that I mentioned in regards to peronsl movement.

My bad.  

you dont' think laws should be in place regarding right to travel, restricting movement, etc.?

I think the way society has developed (in regards to reduced space in small areas), traveling rights have been forced to evolve with the times. Whereas I would not want people walking all over me while I sleep, I would not want someone driving in my driveway and hitting my car, so I think yes, the city/state has a perfect right to have rules for the road. I do not however think that a speeding law is necessarily applicable to all individuals and people should be allowed to have speeding licenses just as they have pilots licenses, licenses to carry deadly firearms, etc.

Restricting movement sounds like a prison, I think if you find yourself in a hole or stuck behind a road, you should be able to leave (but not travel freely back and fourth). If you have a problem with this, I think you have a right to fight the people entrapping you with deadly force if necessary. Most people are not going to shoot you for walking on their land, but they might if you're a repeat offender who keeps stepping on their crops. Right to passage therefor should be provided as part of a society's duty to human beings, but only on foot. Fancy roads for driving cars? Regulate the shit out of that.

[420]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=238506.new#new