To get mass adoption we need to sort out these decimals

[ChrisJ]

I think the price of Bitcoin puts off a lot of regular people because psychologically people think in round numbers. The first experience a lay person has with Bitcoin is that they want a whole Bitcoin then they look at the price askance. Also dealing with all those decimal places is enough to do anyone's head in.

So we need to come up with distinctive coin designs for each major shift in the decimal place, namely:
Decibitcoins  - 0.1
Centibitoins  - 0.01
Millibitoins     - 0.001
Microbitcoins - 0.000001
Satoshis       - 0.00000001

A bit like Nickles, Dimes and 50 pence pieces. I propose a standard across all Bitcoin vendors platforms that they give the user the option of which decimal to operate in. So that if one chooses they can buy Bitcoin by the Millibitoin.

Nothing has to change on the backend, it's just a user interface issue. Does anyone know of project like this? Any challenges or suggestions?

Thank-you kindly.

[greyhawk]

Yeah, but what about tonal bitcoin?

[Bogdan]

This would be useful, but any intelligent person can handle decimals.

[greyhawk]

This would be useful, but any intelligent person can handle decimals.

Have you been to an average supermarket yet?

[malevolent]

You are not the first to come up with this idea, e.g. Blockchain.info allows the users to view their balances in milibitcoins (mBTC)

There's no we need, you are free to fork the client yourself and introduce these changes, it's all here for free.

I think the price and adoption is still too low to bother much about and people will probably arrive to similar conclusions as you.

Oh, and you forgot about one unit, Gavins - 5430 satoshis

[ChrisJ]

This would be useful, but any intelligent person can handle decimals.

Have you been to an average supermarket yet?

Indeed. And it's not just a matter of intelligence (assuming we can agree on a definition) it's also a visual issue. Sometimes it's easy to miscount the leading zeros which means people go to extra effort to have to count. This can lead to people overpaying for something like a coffee by a factor of 10. This leads to anxiety at the moment of purchase.

I am basing this on some informal usability testing I have done with friends and family.

[ChrisJ]

You are not the first to come up with this idea, e.g. Blockchain.info allows the users to view their balances in milibitcoins (mBTC)

There's no we need, you are free to fork the client yourself and introduce these changes, it's all here for free.

I think the price and adoption is still too low to bother much about and people will probably arrive to similar conclusions as you.

Oh, and you forgot about one unit, Gavins - 5430 satoshis

Thanks for this. I am not a developer and I don't think I'd have much to offer by bringing out another wallet client. I wanted to see if we could form a consensus across all vendors and software clients so that people have a similar experience regardless of whose wallet they are using. It would be standard.

I will try and throw up a web page that explains the different units in lay terms. And gives the current price in the preferred decimal of the user's choice. And perhaps it would be helpful to display the price of a coffee or a pint of milk in mBTC for reference.

[nwbitcoin]

You need two names, and no more.

Bitcoins for everything bigger than a bitcoin, and Satoshi for everything smaller than a bitcoin.

so, 0.01 bitcoins becomes a megasatoshi

What is so difficult about that?

[ChrisJ]

You need two names, and no more.

Bitcoins for everything bigger than a bitcoin, and Satoshi for everything smaller than a bitcoin.

so, 0.01 bitcoins becomes a megasatoshi

What is so difficult about that?

That's a good suggestion. Thanks.

[Chaoskampf]

I think the price of Bitcoin puts off a lot of regular people because psychologically people think in round numbers. The first experience a lay person has with Bitcoin is that they want a whole Bitcoin then they look at the price askance. Also dealing with all those decimal places is enough to do anyone's head in.

So we need to come up with distinctive coin designs for each major shift in the decimal place, namely:
Decibitcoins  - 0.1
Centibitoins  - 0.01
Millibitoins     - 0.001
Microbitcoins - 0.000001
Satoshis       - 0.00000001

A bit like Nickles, Dimes and 50 pence pieces. I propose a standard across all Bitcoin vendors platforms that they give the user the option of which decimal to operate in. So that if one chooses they can buy Bitcoin by the Millibitoin.

Nothing has to change on the backend, it's just a user interface issue. Does anyone know of project like this? Any challenges or suggestions?

Thank-you kindly.

While I think this sort of naming scheme definitely helps Bitcoin become more user-friendly (mostly to those who are unfamiliar with what it is and how it works), I like the idea of 1 BTC being the base, and using decimal values to convey smaller units. I feel like seeing those decimal values implicitly represents two things.

A) The divisibility and fungible nature of Bitcoin.
B) Its significantly higher value relative to other currencies

I think people will learn to understand and respect Bitcoin by experiencing the decimal convention. However, maybe there is a place for certain naming standards for convenience in speaking about sub-bitcoin values.

[Lethn]

I actually find it more complicated and annoying if you start associating names with numbers, what's the point? It's nothing to do with people thinking in round numbers. It's just that some people have a preference for different sorts of mathematics. I recently discovered if I look at programming with different colours on it I have a much easier time reading everything for instance than I do in the bland default view and so on, you just got to make it as customisable as possible so people can use what they prefer.

[ChrisJ]

I actually find it more complicated and annoying if you start associating names with numbers, what's the point? It's nothing to do with people thinking in round numbers. It's just that some people have a preference for different sorts of mathematics. I recently discovered if I look at programming with different colours on it I have a much easier time reading everything for instance than I do in the bland default view and so on, you just got to make it as customisable as possible so people can use what they prefer.

I like this idea of customisation. That's exactly the point, to make it more accessible people need to interact with it in a way that suits them. I think over time what will emerge is a consensus among merchants.

Re round numbers, that was more to do with when people buy the coins, I have noticed they tend to want a whole coin or a whole $100 worth of coins.

[tutkarz]

i was reading allot of sugestions about this problem and best i saw was XBT. Its iso name like USD GBP EUR and is equal to 1 micro BTC. Its easy to adopt because 1 XBT = 100 satoshi and 1 BTC = 1 000 000 XBT.

You could buy 10 000 XBT for $1 now. It sounds better than 1 btc for $100 or even 0.01 BTC for $1.

I dont agree with that we have time to switch. No, the sooner we do this, the less problems other newcomers will have later. We have to do it now.

[Dekshuduph]

i was reading allot of sugestions about this problem and best i saw was XBT. Its iso name like USD GBP EUR and is equal to 1 micro BTC. Its easy to adopt because 1 XBT = 100 satoshi and 1 BTC = 1 000 000 XBT.

You could buy 10 000 XBT for $1 now. It sounds better than 1 btc for $100 or even 0.01 BTC for $1.

I dont agree with that we have time to switch. No, the sooner we do this, the less problems other newcomers will have later. We have to do it now.

That's the uBTC you're thinking of, a thing that already exists: it is, in fact, already commonly used.

[Bogdan]

This would be useful, but any intelligent person can handle decimals.

http://www.africav.net/ni/comment-smileys/suspicious.gif

Have you been to an average supermarket yet?

Indeed. And it's not just a matter of intelligence (assuming we can agree on a definition) it's also a visual issue. Sometimes it's easy to miscount the leading zeros which means people go to extra effort to have to count. This can lead to people overpaying for something like a coffee by a factor of 10. This leads to anxiety at the moment of purchase.

I am basing this on some informal usability testing I have done with friends and family.

True but it's easier to note 0s than remember six different names for these amounts like microbitcoins and centibitcoins. In America there is dollars and cents, it would be a lot harder if there were four other types.

[coinedBit]

for any terminology to become mainstream, you would want to introduce it as part of the bitcoin client itself, i.e. through a corresponding btc discussion (mailing list) and by providing a pull request to change units and tooltips accordingly.

[kjj]

My input (mentioned in several of the previous 1000 threads on this exact same topic, thanks for searching... ) is that people will figure out their own names for things.

No one calls the US Dollar a "buck" or a "greenback" because Congress sat down in committee and figured out some cool slang words for us to adopt.

[Dekshuduph]

My input (mentioned in several of the previous 1000 threads on this exact same topic, thanks for searching... ) is that people will figure out their own names for things.

No one calls the US Dollar a "buck" or a "greenback" because Congress sat down in committee and figured out some cool slang words for us to adopt.

Lay Chris some slack, not all new members understand the functions of a forum.

Anyway, I half-agree with you: The Satoshi isn't anything official. However, your example with the US dollar is irrelevant because "bucks" and "greenbacks" really are no different from dollars.

[eMansipater]

www.em-bit.org

[jaywaka2713]

1 BTC = Bitcoin
0.01 BTC = Bitcent
0.000001 = Millibit
0.00000001 = Satoshi

I think we should just stick with that...