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the.Phil
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November 07, 2017, 12:12:22 PM
 #1

Dear Bitcoin community,

As kind of a Bitcoin novice I want to ask you a question concerning the private key of Bitcoins and hope that you can help me!
Following scenario:
I bought Bitcoins on the 31st of July and sent them to my Exodus Desktop Wallet as I was told that you need to hold the private key of the coins in order to retrieve both BTC and BCH after the hardfork. Since then I never touched my wallet. However, as I bought a Ledger device now, I want to transfer the coins (BTC) to the hardware wallet and thus I wonder what happens to the private keys of the Bitcoins.

Do the private keys of the coins stay the same throughout the transfer?
-   If yes there is no issue with retrieving BCH in the future.
-   If no I will have to keep the private keys from my Exodus wallet so that I can get BCH coins, right?

I hope that my situation/question is clear.

I would be very happy if you helped me out! Smiley
Thanks very much in advance!
BR, the.Phil
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ranochigo
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November 07, 2017, 12:18:20 PM
 #2

I bought Bitcoins on the 31st of July and sent them to my Exodus Desktop Wallet as I was told that you need to hold the private key of the coins in order to retrieve both BTC and BCH after the hardfork.
You just need to have access to the private key, even if its in the future.
Do the private keys of the coins stay the same throughout the transfer?
Transfer to where? Can you get the private key from Exodus or do they have a GUI feature which allows you to send BCH transactions?

The fork basically means there are two blockchains that are similar till the point of fork. Ie. If I have 20BTC before the fork, after the fork, I'll have 20BTC and 20BCH. Both of them will be stored in the same address(albeit on different blockchains) with the same private key.

the.Phil
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November 07, 2017, 12:27:49 PM
 #3

Hi ranochigo,

Thanks for your fast reply!

First of all: Exodus offers a GUI with the possibility to send coins to another wallet. Thus I would have sent the coins to the leder wallet via this GUI - although I did not set up the Ledger Wallet yet I assume that it will show me an address where to send the coins to.

I know that I need to have access to the PKey in order to retrieve - the question is whether the PKey of the coins will change when transferring them to another wallet address.
This is more of a conceptual question. As far as I understood each wallet has got a public as well as a private key and each coin has got a private key, right?
If I own 1 BTC there might be 2 PKeys behind this coin because I own 2 fragments of it.

Given the example that my 1 BTC has got the PKeys "abc" and "def" I want to know whether these PKeys will be the same in the ledger wallet after having transferred them from Exodus to Ledger?

Sorry for the non-Bitcoin-related wording Wink
BR, the.Phil
ranochigo
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November 07, 2017, 12:37:46 PM
 #4

First of all: Exodus offers a GUI with the possibility to send coins to another wallet. Thus I would have sent the coins to the leder wallet via this GUI - although I did not set up the Ledger Wallet yet I assume that it will show me an address where to send the coins to.
Yeah.
I know that I need to have access to the PKey in order to retrieve - the question is whether the PKey of the coins will change when transferring them to another wallet address.
This is more of a conceptual question. As far as I understood each wallet has got a public as well as a private key and each coin has got a private key, right?
If I own 1 BTC there might be 2 PKeys behind this coin because I own 2 fragments of it.

Given the example that my 1 BTC has got the PKeys "abc" and "def" I want to know whether these PKeys will be the same in the ledger wallet after having transferred them from Exodus to Ledger?
Nope. You got it wrong.

Each address has its own corresponding public and private key. The address (1...) or (3...) is merely the hash of the public key. If you own 1BTC from 1 transaction in 1 address, you will have 1 public key since you only have 1 address. If you own 2BTC from 2 transactions in 1 address, you will still only have 1 public key since you only have 1 address.

As to if the public key of the original address, it won't change. Your wallet might automatically send the remainder to another address and you'll have another public key then.

the.Phil
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November 07, 2017, 12:57:31 PM
 #5

Hi,

Each address has its own corresponding public and private key. The address (1...) or (3...) is merely the hash of the public key. If you own 1BTC from 1 transaction in 1 address, you will have 1 public key since you only have 1 address. If you own 2BTC from 2 transactions in 1 address, you will still only have 1 public key since you only have 1 address.

As to if the public key of the original address, it won't change. Your wallet might automatically send the remainder to another address and you'll have another public key then.

I am sorry but obviously I used the abbreviation "PKey" in a wrong way and confused something - I was referring to private key.
What about the private key (when talking about "fragments" of the coin)?

Thanks!
BR, the.Phil
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November 07, 2017, 01:10:52 PM
 #6

Hi,
I am sorry but obviously I used the abbreviation "PKey" in a wrong way and confused something - I was referring to private key.
What about the private key (when talking about "fragments" of the coin)?
Same thing. The address is the hash of the public key and the public key has its own corresponding private key.

"Fragments" of a coin is basically an input that states a corresponding private key can spend it. To put it simply, when people are sending Bitcoin transactions, they are stating that the owner of the address can spend it using their private key. For the coins in the same address, they can be spent by the same corresponding private key.

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November 07, 2017, 02:30:28 PM
 #7

Hi ranochigo,

I think that I start to get it.
So wrapping it up this means the following - could you please confirm this?

-> Buy 20 BTCs

-> Transfer to Exodus Wallet
This Wallet has got a public as well as a private key. Thus all 20 BTCs have got the same private key.

-> Transfer of 5 BTCs to Ledger wallet
The Ledger Wallet has got a different public and a different private key than the Exodus wallet. Thus 5 of my total coins have got a different private key (the new one) than the other 15 on the Exodus wallet.

-> Retrieve 15 BCH (the ones that are still on the Exodus wallet)
I have to access some homepage (what page is not important right now) and enter the private key of the Exodus wallet in order to retrieve my 15 BCH. (Question: Would it be possible to only retrieve let's say 10? Although it does not make sense Cheesy)

-> Retrieve 5 BCH (the ones that are on the Ledger wallet)
I have to access some homepage again and enter the private key again - but this time I must not enter the private key of the Exodus wallet (because the BTC were transferred to that wallet after the fork) but the private key of the Ledger wallet?


Thanks very much for the help! Smiley
BR, the.Phil
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November 07, 2017, 02:32:02 PM
 #8

.....
If I own 1 BTC there might be 2 PKeys behind this coin because I own 2 fragments of it.

Given the example that my 1 BTC has got the PKeys "abc" and "def" I want to know whether these PKeys will be the same in the ledger wallet after having transferred them from Exodus to Ledger?

Sorry for the non-Bitcoin-related wording Wink
BR, the.Phil

Only if you imported those private keys.

If you did a SEND from Exodus and a RECEIVE in Ledger, then you have new private keys in Ledger, and new public keys.

The term "Pkey" does not distinguish between public and private keys.
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November 07, 2017, 03:13:36 PM
 #9


-> Retrieve 15 BCH (the ones that are still on the Exodus wallet)
I have to access some homepage (what page is not important right now) and enter the private key of the Exodus wallet in order to retrieve my 15 BCH. (Question: Would it be possible to only retrieve let's say 10? Although it does not make sense Cheesy)


I just want to comment on this.
To be clear, never ever put your private key in a random website!

A private key is the only important information that allows access to your coins (whether it's BTC, BCH or some other currency).


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the.Phil
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November 07, 2017, 03:29:16 PM
 #10

@Spendulus: Thanks very much!


-> Retrieve 15 BCH (the ones that are still on the Exodus wallet)
I have to access some homepage (what page is not important right now) and enter the private key of the Exodus wallet in order to retrieve my 15 BCH. (Question: Would it be possible to only retrieve let's say 10? Although it does not make sense Cheesy)


I just want to comment on this.
To be clear, never ever put your private key in a random website!

A private key is the only important information that allows access to your coins (whether it's BTC, BCH or some other currency).

At some point in time I will have to do it in order to retrieve BCH or did I get something wrong?

But when the keys of my BTC change when SENDING and RECEIVING them from Exodus to the Ledger wallet my BTC should not be at risk when retrieving BCH or am I wrong?

Thanks!
BR
ranochigo
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November 07, 2017, 04:24:45 PM
 #11

~
Wait. Do you have the BTC in the address on 1st of August? If not, you can't get the BCH. If so, you'll have 5 BCH. The transfer of Bitcoin will not affect the transfer of BCH, they are completely separate.

You can get retrieve just 10BCH. Install the client and send 10BCH out to another address.

At some point in time I will have to do it in order to retrieve BCH or did I get something wrong?
You can install a client for that. Check https://www.bitcoincash.org/.
But when the keys of my BTC change when SENDING and RECEIVING them from Exodus to the Ledger wallet my BTC should not be at risk when retrieving BCH or am I wrong?
You're correct. Since you are sending the Bitcoin to another address, your previous address wouldn't have any Bitcoins. That being said, using an official client for that is a far better idea.

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November 07, 2017, 10:43:09 PM
 #12

I think that I start to get it.
So wrapping it up this means the following - could you please confirm this?

-> Buy 20 BTCs
-> Transfer to Exodus Wallet
This Wallet has got a public as well as a private key. Thus all 20 BTCs have got the same private key.

-> Transfer of 5 BTCs to Ledger wallet
The Ledger Wallet has got a different public and a different private key than the Exodus wallet. Thus 5 of my total coins have got a different private key (the new one) than the other 15 on the Exodus wallet.
This is correct so far


Quote
-> Retrieve 15 BCH (the ones that are still on the Exodus wallet)
-> Retrieve 5 BCH (the ones that are on the Ledger wallet)
This may be incorrect given that you stated you have not setup your ledger yet. If you bought 20 BTC before Aug 1st... but you transferred the 5 BTC to ledger AFTER Aug 1st then it will be:
-> Retrieve 20 BCH (they are all still on the private key from Exodus wallet... they DO NOT move with BTC transferred AFTER Aug 1st)

If you bought 20 BTC before Aug 1st... and transferred 5 BTC to ledger BEFORE Aug 1st then it will be as you suggested:
-> Retrieve 15 BCH (the ones that are still on the Exodus wallet)
-> Retrieve 5 BCH (the ones that are on the Ledger wallet)

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November 08, 2017, 03:04:50 AM
 #13

@Spendulus: Thanks very much!


-> Retrieve 15 BCH (the ones that are still on the Exodus wallet)
I have to access some homepage (what page is not important right now) and enter the private key of the Exodus wallet in order to retrieve my 15 BCH. (Question: Would it be possible to only retrieve let's say 10? Although it does not make sense Cheesy)


I just want to comment on this.
To be clear, never ever put your private key in a random website!

A private key is the only important information that allows access to your coins (whether it's BTC, BCH or some other currency).

At some point in time I will have to do it in order to retrieve BCH or did I get something wrong?

But when the keys of my BTC change when SENDING and RECEIVING them from Exodus to the Ledger wallet my BTC should not be at risk when retrieving BCH or am I wrong?

Thanks!
BR

I have a suggestion.

You are facing something that is actually quite confusing and risky.

You are learning fast but you are a noob.

Why not just do nothing and wait? In six months there will be slick, easy ways to do the recovery of the new coins. Probably. And you'll be more experienced, skilled and knowledgable.
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November 08, 2017, 09:13:11 AM
 #14

Quote
-> Retrieve 15 BCH (the ones that are still on the Exodus wallet)
-> Retrieve 5 BCH (the ones that are on the Ledger wallet)
This may be incorrect given that you stated you have not setup your ledger yet. If you bought 20 BTC before Aug 1st... but you transferred the 5 BTC to ledger AFTER Aug 1st then it will be:
-> Retrieve 20 BCH (they are all still on the private key from Exodus wallet... they DO NOT move with BTC transferred AFTER Aug 1st)

If you bought 20 BTC before Aug 1st... and transferred 5 BTC to ledger BEFORE Aug 1st then it will be as you suggested:
-> Retrieve 15 BCH (the ones that are still on the Exodus wallet)
-> Retrieve 5 BCH (the ones that are on the Ledger wallet)


NOW I completely got it - thanks very much for the clarification! Smiley



I have a suggestion.

You are facing something that is actually quite confusing and risky.

You are learning fast but you are a noob.

Why not just do nothing and wait? In six months there will be slick, easy ways to do the recovery of the new coins. Probably. And you'll be more experienced, skilled and knowledgable.

True that - noob Cheesy
I actually thought of transferring the BTCs to a Ledger Wallet as it is more safe. Shall I wait and do nothing until there are "easy ways to do the recovery of the new coins" or do the following:

1. Extract the private key file from Exodus
2. SEND and RECEIVE the BTCs from Exodus to Ledger
3. Keep the private key file from Exodus somewhere safe so that I can retrieve the BCH coins whenever I want to? (when there are - as you said "easy ways to do the recovery of the new coins")

Thanks! Smiley
BR, the.Phil
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November 08, 2017, 09:28:40 AM
 #15


True that - noob Cheesy
I actually thought of transferring the BTCs to a Ledger Wallet as it is more safe. Shall I wait and do nothing until there are "easy ways to do the recovery of the new coins" or do the following:

1. Extract the private key file from Exodus
2. SEND and RECEIVE the BTCs from Exodus to Ledger
3. Keep the private key file from Exodus somewhere safe so that I can retrieve the BCH coins whenever I want to? (when there are - as you said "easy ways to do the recovery of the new coins")

Thanks! Smiley
BR, the.Phil

I actually do not see anything wrong in these proceedings.
If you first transfer BTC from Exodus to the Ledger wallet, there is no reason why you shouldn't retrieve the BCH coins from the old address.
Now there is already a wallet for the BCH which you can download from their official website.

You will have to do the same for Bitcoin Gold coins, when the official BTG wallet becomes available.


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the.Phil
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November 08, 2017, 12:54:09 PM
 #16

I actually do not see anything wrong in these proceedings.
If you first transfer BTC from Exodus to the Ledger wallet, there is no reason why you shouldn't retrieve the BCH coins from the old address.
Now there is already a wallet for the BCH which you can download from their official website.

You will have to do the same for Bitcoin Gold coins, when the official BTG wallet becomes available.

Okay!

After having transferred the BTC to the Ledger wallet:
Given the case that (in the future) a random wallet X supports BTC and BCH and a random wallet Y supports BTC and BTG I assume that I can import the private key (from before the SEND/RECEIVE to Ledger transaction) to both wallets and receive BCH on wallet X and BTG on wallet Y.

If a wallet supports BTC, BCH AND BTG I would receive BCH and BTG at the same time right?

Hopefully that is my last question that time.. Thanks for helping - awesome community! Smiley
BR, the.Phil
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November 08, 2017, 08:02:20 PM
 #17

You realise that Electron Cash (https://electroncash.org/) and Bitcoin ABC (https://www.bitcoinabc.org/) and others (https://www.bitcoincash.org/#wallets) both support BCH and you can import your pre-Aug 1st private keys now to get BCH right?

currently there are NO BTG wallets where you can claim coins... because there is still NO BTG network... they just reset TestNet today to continue testing...

But, theoretically speaking, if you use one of those "multi-currency" wallets that everyone has all sorts of issues with like Jaxx or Exodus or Coinomi... and they choose to support BTC, BCH and BTG (when it arrives)... AND they allow importing/sweeping of private keys... then yes, you should probably be able to claim BCH and BTG

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