[Joint Venture] Let´s run a 180GH DX-Large together

[bitcoinmaxe]

I´m out! bargraphics only accepts upfront payment while Terrahash states it wont change the orders

We would found a joint venture. The goal is to bid for this Terrahash rig:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=238351.msg2523493#msg2523493

Rough scetch of our Agenda:

1) TheSwede75 will be our escrow
2) the members pay their share to the escrow
2.1) Each shareholder will own [his shares / total shares = "shareholders part"] in this group
2.2) Minimum Share = 10BTC
3) We aim for a budget of 150 BTC, however we will try to buy it for a lower price
4) TheSwede75 will be the external representative of the group

5) If we succeed in buying the device:
5.1) It will be hosted at Terrahash in TheSwede75´s name
5.2) Should the buy price be lower than the total budget
5.2.1) The remaining budget will be paid back to the shareholders according to their part
5.3) Terrahash will pay the dividends to TheSwede75
5.3.1) We will have to pay 50 USD/month for hosting @ Terrahash
5.3.2) The Swede75 will pay out the dividends to the shareholders once a week
5.3.3) The Swede 75 will charge a 1.5% fee of the dividends
5.3.4) The first week of a month, the 50 USD hosting expenses will be deducted from the dividends.
5.3.4.1) $50 will be "exchanged" into BTC at MtGox (or at the time leading Bitcoin exchange) at spot price within 20% of 24-hour average trading price for BTC vs. $(USD)
5.3.5) The Swede75 will pay the 50 USD to Terrahash
5.3.6) The group will set up a data-sheet for The Swede75, to ease payment and to make the calculation transparent
5.3.7) Each shareholder need´s to have a dividend address that he can qt-sign messages from

6) If we should fail at buying the device, TheSwede75  will pay back the shares immediately at 0.1BTC transfer fee.
7) Group Communication
7.1) Bitcoinmaxe will be the spokesperson of this joint venture
7.2) Bitcoinmaxe will hold contact between TheSwede75 and Terrahash
7.3) Actions Proposals & Voting on these has to be QT client signed
7.4) I suggest we open a thread here somewhere to communicate, other suggestions are welcome though
8 ) Decision Finding
8.1) Shareholders can suggest Actions the joint venture should take (for example sell device and cash out)
8.2) Suggestions should be in a form, so that shareholders accept/refuse it with a simple yes or no
8.3) Voting on suggestions will have to be signed with the QT-client and the shareholders holding address
8.4) There are 100 votes, each shareholder has "shareholders part" votes.
8.5) For an action to be accepted it needs more than 50 votes
9) Trading Shares
9.1) If a shareholder wants to sell his shares ("Quitter"), the remaining shareholders get a preemption
9.1.1) The price of the share will be the initial share price (what deposited at the start)
9.1.2) Each remaining shareholder has the right to buy  [ Quitter's shares * (totalshares - Quitter's shares) / his shares]
9.1.3) If a remaining shareholder does not want to use his preemptive right, it falls to the othe remaining shareholders, his shares will be calculated as quitter's shares for this purpose
9.1.4) If shares remain after the preemptive rights (No existing shareholder wants them) they can be sold to a new shareholder
9.1.5) TheSwede75 charges 0.1 BTC for any share transactions. Allow 48 hours for transactions. Users need to have access to the sending Bitcoin address as TheSwede75 can request a signed message to be sent to verify ownership. DO NOT TRANSFER FUNDS using wallets/addresses you do not control (trading sites etc.)

list of members / budget

bitcoinmaxe 20
threedrules 20
thehun 10
TheFuneral 20

We are 80 BTC short of our target Budget.

[bitcoinmaxe]

As of now 3 members have signaled their interest...

[bitcoinmaxe]

Best of luck to you!

There is also a "Group Buy" subforum underneath hardware if you want to use that as well.

If you have any questions or concerns please don't hesitate to ask.

How can I move it there?

And how can I edit my posts?

[TheSwede75]

As much as I hope you are successful this is a pretty bad idea out of a cost/ROI view. Your 'max bid' will obviously have to be public for the group buy to raise funds, thus making it 100% certain that the max bid is the final price, as OP from sale thread has a vested interest in selling for as high of a price as possible.

I have considered this type of group buy before, but always failed in that point.

IMHO there are 3 possible ways to set up a group buy aimed at procuring an auction miner:

- Make a fixed price deal with owner outside of auction.
- Group buy operator carries risk.
- set up the group buy as a Share/GH buy, where the margin is high enough for the group buy organizer to alleviate most risk and as close to possible guarantee a successful purchase

Out of these 3 options only option 1 is 100% viable, 2 asks a lot from the organizer as he/she may end up in a situation where he carries a loss or has to refund share holders and 3 runs the risk of making the group buy unattractive to buyers.

I wish you good luck and hope you can find a viable solution. If you would like any help in structuring the group buy I am happy to help. And please don't take this as criticism or FUD, just feedback.

[TheSwede75]

Best of luck to you!

There is also a "Group Buy" subforum underneath hardware if you want to use that as well.

If you have any questions or concerns please don't hesitate to ask.

How can I move it there?

And how can I edit my posts?

Just create another post in the "group buy" forum with appropriate headline and link to this post in post. I believe this is accepted behavior.

[bitcoinmaxe]

As much as I hope you are successful this is a pretty bad idea out of a cost/ROI view. Your 'max bid' will obviously have to be public for the group buy to raise funds, thus making it 100% certain that the max bid is the final price, as OP from sale thread has a vested interest in selling for as high of a price as possible.

I have considered this type of group buy before, but always failed in that point.

IMHO there are 3 possible ways to set up a group buy aimed at procuring an auction miner:

- Make a fixed price deal with owner outside of auction.
- Group buy operator carries risk.
- set up the group buy as a Share/GH buy, where the margin is high enough for the group buy organizer to alleviate most risk and as close to possible guarantee a successful purchase

Out of these 3 options only option 1 is 100% viable, 2 asks a lot from the organizer as he/she may end up in a situation where he carries a loss or has to refund share holders and 3 runs the risk of making the group buy unattractive to buyers.

I wish you good luck and hope you can find a viable solution. If you would like any help in structuring the group buy I am happy to help. And please don't take this as criticism or FUD, just feedback.

Let me try to clarify my approach:

Let´s say we have 7 Members with 20 BTC share each.
You become a member of this group by transferring your share to the escrow.
We internally agree on a maximum bid, lets say 110 BTC.
If we succeed, the very first payment will be the 30BTC remaining capital.
If we don´t we will get our shares back(-escrow fee)

I don´t see the need to agree on our max-bid publicly. I understand that you would like to know the max-bid in advance.
In this point I trust that the other member´s will have some common sense / math-skill.

Maybe a rule on how to find agreements in the group would help increase the trust.
How to vote on decisions?
A 51% majority of shares needed?

Other decisions will be necessary in the future. Like should we sell the rig and so on...

[TheSwede75]

As much as I hope you are successful this is a pretty bad idea out of a cost/ROI view. Your 'max bid' will obviously have to be public for the group buy to raise funds, thus making it 100% certain that the max bid is the final price, as OP from sale thread has a vested interest in selling for as high of a price as possible.

I have considered this type of group buy before, but always failed in that point.

IMHO there are 3 possible ways to set up a group buy aimed at procuring an auction miner:

- Make a fixed price deal with owner outside of auction.
- Group buy operator carries risk.
- set up the group buy as a Share/GH buy, where the margin is high enough for the group buy organizer to alleviate most risk and as close to possible guarantee a successful purchase

Out of these 3 options only option 1 is 100% viable, 2 asks a lot from the organizer as he/she may end up in a situation where he carries a loss or has to refund share holders and 3 runs the risk of making the group buy unattractive to buyers.

I wish you good luck and hope you can find a viable solution. If you would like any help in structuring the group buy I am happy to help. And please don't take this as criticism or FUD, just feedback.

Let me try to clarify my approach:

Let´s say we have 7 Members with 20 BTC share each.
You become a member of this group by transferring your share to the escrow.
We internally agree on a maximum bid, lets say 110 BTC.
If we succeed, the very first payment will be the 30BTC remaining capital.
If we don´t we will get our shares back(-escrow fee)

I don´t see the need to agree on our max-bid publicly. I understand that you would like to know the max-bid in advance.
In this point I trust that the other member´s will have some common sense / math-skill.

Maybe a rule on how to find agreements in the group would help increase the trust.
How to vote on decisions?
A 51% majority of shares needed?

Other decisions will be necessary in the future. Like should we sell the rig and so on...

I totally understand, and I hope it works out. I think you will find that these types of trust-based group buys or group buys with non 100% pre-set parameters usually have a low chance of success. That said, I wish you the best.

[bitcoinmaxe]

As much as I hope you are successful this is a pretty bad idea out of a cost/ROI view. Your 'max bid' will obviously have to be public for the group buy to raise funds, thus making it 100% certain that the max bid is the final price, as OP from sale thread has a vested interest in selling for as high of a price as possible.

I have considered this type of group buy before, but always failed in that point.

IMHO there are 3 possible ways to set up a group buy aimed at procuring an auction miner:

- Make a fixed price deal with owner outside of auction.
- Group buy operator carries risk.
- set up the group buy as a Share/GH buy, where the margin is high enough for the group buy organizer to alleviate most risk and as close to possible guarantee a successful purchase

Out of these 3 options only option 1 is 100% viable, 2 asks a lot from the organizer as he/she may end up in a situation where he carries a loss or has to refund share holders and 3 runs the risk of making the group buy unattractive to buyers.

I wish you good luck and hope you can find a viable solution. If you would like any help in structuring the group buy I am happy to help. And please don't take this as criticism or FUD, just feedback.

Let me try to clarify my approach:

Let´s say we have 7 Members with 20 BTC share each.
You become a member of this group by transferring your share to the escrow.
We internally agree on a maximum bid, lets say 110 BTC.
If we succeed, the very first payment will be the 30BTC remaining capital.
If we don´t we will get our shares back(-escrow fee)

I don´t see the need to agree on our max-bid publicly. I understand that you would like to know the max-bid in advance.
In this point I trust that the other member´s will have some common sense / math-skill.

Maybe a rule on how to find agreements in the group would help increase the trust.
How to vote on decisions?
A 51% majority of shares needed?

Other decisions will be necessary in the future. Like should we sell the rig and so on...

I totally understand, and I hope it works out. I think you will find that these types of trust-based group buys or group buys with non 100% pre-set parameters usually have a low chance of success. That said, I wish you the best.

Thank you for your wishes and thoughts. I appreciate your feedback. If you have any more ideas, please let me know.

[TheFuneral]

You have one member interested.

What's the ETA on the units, I realize this might not be a realistic date, but it's at least a date.

[bitcoinmaxe]

If I remember right, they are to be expected in the beginning of August.

[bitcoinmaxe]

Do you guys think a total budget of 150 is ok?

[TheSwede75]

If you can decide on the escrow terms I am willing to Escrow for 1.5% in offline cold wallet. I have solid rep (see. Thread in sig) and am the facilitator and future miner of two group buys (KNC/Bitfury - see successfully closed group buys in the group buy thread). I live in the US, and have several longtime members and other group buy members and Escrow parties that can validate my rep/honesty.

[bitcoinmaxe]

If you can decide on the escrow terms I am willing to Escrow for 1.5% in offline cold wallet. I have solid rep (see. Thread in sig) and am the facilitator and future miner of two group buys (KNC/Bitfury - see successfully closed group buys in the group buy thread). I live in the US, and have several longtime members and other group buy members and Escrow parties that can validate my rep/honesty.

Thank you for the offer, we will consider it.

[TheSwede75]

If you can decide on the escrow terms I am willing to Escrow for 1.5% in offline cold wallet. I have solid rep (see. Thread in sig) and am the facilitator and future miner of two group buys (KNC/Bitfury - see successfully closed group buys in the group buy thread). I live in the US, and have several longtime members and other group buy members and Escrow parties that can validate my rep/honesty.

Thank you for the offer, we will consider it.

If you would rather go with a more well known escrow I recommend JohnK. I think he charges 2-2.5%

[CanaryInTheMine]

We would found a joint venture. The goal is to bid for this Terrahash rig:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=238351.msg2523493#msg2523493

Rough scetch of our Agenda:

1) we find a reputated escrow
2) the members pay their share to the escrow
3.1) Minimum Share = 20BTC
3) we agree on a maximum bid
4) escrow is the representative of the group
5) If we should win
5.1) He will be our representative owner, the rig will be hosted at Terrahash
5.2) He will pay back the difference between paid shares/budget and actual bid to the share holders
5.3) He will regularly pay out the dividends to the share holders
5.4) He will get some kind of fee
6) If we should fail, he will pay back the shares/budget immediately
7) these rules need to be finetuned
7.1) We need to agree on an safe internal means of communications - suggestions? bitmessage?!
7.2) We need to agree on voting system for decisions
7.3) Any rules for how the shares should be traded?!

list of members / budget

bitcoinmaxe 20
threedrules 20
thehun 10
TheFuneral 20

I´d say our target should be a budget of 150 BTC, and we should then internally agree on a maximum bid that is lower than 150.
Who would do the escrow/dividend payment? At what fee?

need escrow? 

[bitcoinmaxe]

need escrow? 

Indeed we do
What are your conditions?

[CanaryInTheMine]

need escrow? 

Indeed we do
What are your conditions?

PM sent

[bitcoinmaxe]

So we have two offers for escrow.
The existing group agrees that 150 BTC is a good budget.
Right now we lack 80 BTC in shareholders / budget.

[bitcoinmaxe]

It´s not an auction anymore. It´s 150 BTC buy now.
When our budget gets somewhere close, we can make bargraphics an offer he can´t refuse

[TheSwede75]

need escrow? 

Indeed we do
What are your conditions?

PM sent

As for escrow I can vouch for Canaryinthemine. I have dealt with him many times and he is exceptionally honest and friendly. I can only assume he would vouch for me as well.