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Author Topic: A noob's idea on how to keep us noobs from destroying Crypto-currencies  (Read 1772 times)
JimCGSavings
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June 21, 2013, 01:43:56 PM
 #1

I've given some thought to the error of my ways in my first Newbie thread: Bitcoin as a savings account. http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=205597.msg2150004#msg2150004

I've been accused of seeking help from this community only for the purpose of Tax Fraud. That was not my intent when I gave TMI or tl;dr, or however you youngster determine that stuff. My intent was simply to inform that my personal situation was one that prevented me from having a fiat savings account. And that Bitcoin looked like a way to ABIDE by the specific and highly subjective rules and laws of my situation. Two things were pointed out to me: 1. Bitcoin was too volatile and too "beta" to be used as a Savings account currency. 2. I must be trying to commit some kind of tax fraud that would the "downfall" of BTC. So, for those that think crypto-currencies, and all it's users, should be transparent and easily taxable; the usual solution(in my humble noob opinion) is a fork of BTC. One that would prevent "people like me" from causing the downfall of Bitcoin. I'm posting this tl;dr in Newbies because I think the idea that a noob like me could be part of the "downfall of bitcoin" MUST be a newbie one. Despite the fact that a few "oldbies" or "Hero" level users have accused me of these dastardly criminal intents!
So I propose an alternative digital coin with these features: The HonestInjunCoin aka HIC's!
1.Unencryptable. If HIC's can be encrypted, it can make it harder for the moral and upstanding enforcers of laws to track for tax purposes, unreported money transfers, etc., all the things that crypto-currencies make possible.
2. All confirmations of HIC movement must go through a USA agency, recorded to that secret NSA data storage facility, and reported to FinCen, the IRA, FBI, and any other 3 letter agencies with an interest in tracking our financial movements to make sure WE stay moral, upright citizens. This information should be made available to any other country's agencies to make sure ANY users of HIC's obey both U.S. AND any other tax or financial regulators that want to collect their fair share of revenue from users of digital currency.
3. It should only work in the next full update of Windows to Windows 9, so that Microsoft can make sure that the wallet, the miners, and everyone involved in use of HonestInjunCoin software and Apps pays all applicable transfer fees, steals from no-one ever without being caught, and PAYS THEIR DANG TAXES!!!
4. I'm sure the less newbish users of this forum can point out considerations I've left out of the Ideal altcoin for making digital online currency users acceptable citizens of their government.
5. (grin)
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pontiacg5
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June 21, 2013, 02:22:04 PM
 #2

I believe your doctor is mistaken, you are the one with dementia. I'd get that checked out.

Moving your money to something else of value (bitcoin) purely for the reason of dropping under a "must not have $XXX in savings" is welfare fraud. It's not "Abiding" by the law, no matter how much your addled brain rationalizes it. The government has said that bitcoin is not exempt from taxes, and if any taxable transaction where dollars changing hands takes place, no matter what form it's in (dollars, pesos, bitcoins, shiny pebbles, etc..) you have to pay and report that.

You are no different than the ghetto queen driving a Escalade using food stamps for lobster and steak, because apparently the rules apply to neither of you. But somehow you are better than everyone else playing the rules, so carry on.

It's pretty clear that you have no interest in bitcoin other than your own personal fraud purposes, incredibly clear by the "suggestions" you are making. I'd say you were trolling at first, but sadly that's not the problem  Roll Eyes


Please DO NOT send me private messages asking for help setting up GPU miners. I will not respond!!!
zengryT
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June 21, 2013, 04:07:42 PM
 #3

I've given some thought to the error of my ways in my first Newbie thread: Bitcoin as a savings account. http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=205597.msg2150004#msg2150004

I've been accused of seeking help from this community only for the purpose of Tax Fraud. That was not my intent when I gave TMI or tl;dr, or however you youngster determine that stuff. My intent was simply to inform that my personal situation was one that prevented me from having a fiat savings account. And that Bitcoin looked like a way to ABIDE by the specific and highly subjective rules and laws of my situation. Two things were pointed out to me: 1. Bitcoin was too volatile and too "beta" to be used as a Savings account currency. 2. I must be trying to commit some kind of tax fraud that would the "downfall" of BTC. So, for those that think crypto-currencies, and all it's users, should be transparent and easily taxable; the usual solution(in my humble noob opinion) is a fork of BTC. One that would prevent "people like me" from causing the downfall of Bitcoin. I'm posting this tl;dr in Newbies because I think the idea that a noob like me could be part of the "downfall of bitcoin" MUST be a newbie one. Despite the fact that a few "oldbies" or "Hero" level users have accused me of these dastardly criminal intents!
So I propose an alternative digital coin with these features: The HonestInjunCoin aka HIC's!
1.Unencryptable. If HIC's can be encrypted, it can make it harder for the moral and upstanding enforcers of laws to track for tax purposes, unreported money transfers, etc., all the things that crypto-currencies make possible.
2. All confirmations of HIC movement must go through a USA agency, recorded to that secret NSA data storage facility, and reported to FinCen, the IRA, FBI, and any other 3 letter agencies with an interest in tracking our financial movements to make sure WE stay moral, upright citizens. This information should be made available to any other country's agencies to make sure ANY users of HIC's obey both U.S. AND any other tax or financial regulators that want to collect their fair share of revenue from users of digital currency.
3. It should only work in the next full update of Windows to Windows 9, so that Microsoft can make sure that the wallet, the miners, and everyone involved in use of HonestInjunCoin software and Apps pays all applicable transfer fees, steals from no-one ever without being caught, and PAYS THEIR DANG TAXES!!!
4. I'm sure the less newbish users of this forum can point out considerations I've left out of the Ideal altcoin for making digital online currency users acceptable citizens of their government.
5. (grin)

Its already invented and the name of this service is Visa/MC

Not managing signature campaigns anymore.
JimCGSavings
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June 22, 2013, 06:25:44 PM
 #4

I believe your doctor is mistaken, you are the one with dementia. I'd get that checked out.
This is a bit off topic, but let me try to clarify the situation for you, so that your truthiness can have actual data to "interpret". (grin):
It's possible. I wouldn't know. I can't afford to have a doctor or health care. I could if I was truly interested in defrauding the welfare system. But I'd risk getting caught. And jail would make it difficult for me to be my wife's caregiver. So for the next 6 years, I'll just have to risk my health so that she can have the healthcare she qualifies for under her disability status. I'm just the lazy bum that takes care of her 24/7.
Quote
Moving your money to something else of value (bitcoin) purely for the reason of dropping under a "must not have $XXX in savings" is welfare fraud. It's not "Abiding" by the law, no matter how much your addled brain rationalizes it. The government has said that bitcoin is not exempt from taxes, and if any taxable transaction where dollars changing hands takes place, no matter what form it's in (dollars, pesos, bitcoins, shiny pebbles, etc..) you have to pay and report that.
Again, I have only inquired about the possibility of using a BTC wallet as a method of storing for emergency purchases instead of keeping cash on my person. As gweedo's Private Investigator has most likely found out by now,  a certain limited amount of cash for maintenance of selves, housing and transportation IS allowed. But keeping that in a savings account until it's used COULD cause automatic disqualifications from programs that would then require a lot of paperwork, time and appeals to get reinstated. The government agency's solution? Keep it in fiat cash on your person.
My addled brain makes it necessary for me to know the limits of what I can legally do without placing my wife in danger of losing her "entitled" status because she won't work just because her Doctors have had the nerve to diagnose her with Dementia and Bipolarism, thus making her unemployable.

Actually, my understanding is that the government hasn't yet said that bitcoins are taxable. My understanding is that taxes for persons on Capital Gains can apply if the individual makes more than $200 off of anything, not just Bitcoins. Nor have they clarified whether holding BTC in a digital state qualifies as a taxable item.
I never said that I was trying to avoid paying taxes, OR attempting to commit welfare fraud. I did express my frustration with a system that requires I play so many complicated games that they allow (and in some cases require) so that my wife, not me, stays qualified.
I'm sure that by now, gweedo's private investigator has found out that I've inquired, in writing, about what status investing in BTC in a "wallet" would have on my wife's continued ability to suck off the government teat! In fact, by now, gweedo's private investigator should have talked to the CPA who does my taxes, and makes sure we report everything correctly, and my wife's case managers, both actual government ones and the ones they've contracted ,about our status, how many times she has to re-qualify, gotten copies of all the many many many forms I've filled out for her, etc. Lots of them aren't actually covered by HPPA.
 It was my hope that I could accrued an amount over time in a BTC wallet that would not violate tax laws, or entitlement program requirements. I don't believe that hope qualifies as a desire to defraud anyone either.
 
See? I'm not even asking you to take my word for any of this! As soon as gweedo shares the evidence his private investigator uncovers, all will be made clear! But don't let the possibility of facts get in the way of your truthiness. Where'd be the fun in that? (grin)
Quote
You are no different than the ghetto queen driving a Escalade using food stamps for lobster and steak, because apparently the rules apply to neither of you. But somehow you are better than everyone else playing the rules, so carry on.
I wish I had an Escalade! I'm glad we don't meet the requirements for food stamps. I feel sorry for people that do. Fortunately our status on the "entitlement ladder" is high enough that we can pay our bills, buy our own food, pay our mortgage, and thanks to SSD, Medicare and Medicaid, keep my wife alive. I've never claimed to be better than everyone else, or anyone else. All you humans seem alike to me. (grin)
Quote
It's pretty clear that you have no interest in bitcoin other than your own personal fraud purposes, incredibly clear by the "suggestions" you are making. I'd say you were trolling at first, but sadly that's not the problem  Roll Eyes
Actually HIC's would stop "people like me" from being able to do any of the things you seem worried I might accomplish if I ever posses any Bitcoins. And I don't think it's clear at all that I have no interest in bitcoin other than for purposes "fraud". I'll say it again: I have no intention of committing fraud or attempting to break the law at all. Honest! (grin)
JimCGSavings
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June 22, 2013, 06:29:12 PM
 #5

Its already invented and the name of this service is Visa/MC
Oh. Well...I hadn't thought of that. Never mind
http://charlestonteaparty.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/litella.jpg
(grin)
TheKoziTwo
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June 22, 2013, 06:38:40 PM
 #6

There is nothing wrong with tax fraud, in fact, bitcoin was created specifically to cheat on taxes, avoid regulations, perform political incorrect or illegal transactions. I don't think there is much these regulation fanboys can do, in fact they may even play a positive role in making bitcoin somewhat accepted by governments until it's too late for them to do anything about it.

gweedo
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June 22, 2013, 06:40:55 PM
 #7

There is nothing wrong with tax fraud, in fact, bitcoin was created specifically to cheat on taxes, avoid regulations, perform political incorrect or illegal transactions. I don't think there is much these regulation fanboys can do, in fact they may even play a positive role in making bitcoin somewhat accepted by governments until it's too late for them to do anything about it.

You are very wrong. Don't spread misinformation. Tax Fraud hurts the entire community! People like you are hurting bitcoins.
TheKoziTwo
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June 22, 2013, 06:46:09 PM
 #8

There is nothing wrong with tax fraud, in fact, bitcoin was created specifically to cheat on taxes, avoid regulations, perform political incorrect or illegal transactions. I don't think there is much these regulation fanboys can do, in fact they may even play a positive role in making bitcoin somewhat accepted by governments until it's too late for them to do anything about it.

You are very wrong. Don't spread misinformation. Tax Fraud hurts the entire community! People like you are hurting bitcoins.
Tax fraud doesn't hurt anyone, in fact quite the opposite. It leaves more money to be spent in the economy hence generating more value for everyone.

TheKoziTwo
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June 22, 2013, 06:59:25 PM
 #9

There is nothing wrong with tax fraud, in fact, bitcoin was created specifically to cheat on taxes, avoid regulations, perform political incorrect or illegal transactions. I don't think there is much these regulation fanboys can do, in fact they may even play a positive role in making bitcoin somewhat accepted by governments until it's too late for them to do anything about it.

You are very wrong. Don't spread misinformation. Tax Fraud hurts the entire community! People like you are hurting bitcoins.
Tax fraud doesn't hurt anyone, in fact quite the opposite. It leaves more money to be spent in the economy hence generating more value for everyone.

How are people like me suppose to run a legal bitcoin business when the government automatically thinks we are Tax scammers cause people like you made them think that. It hurts the community and makes it difficult for people to put that aside and then accept bitcoin. So yes you are indeed hurting the community, and businesses. So stop with your misinformation and spread of bad information.
How are people supposed to run a legal business accepting cash when people use cash to buy drugs? It's just a currency, doesn't matter if people use it for things you consider "bad".

gweedo
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June 22, 2013, 07:02:32 PM
 #10

There is nothing wrong with tax fraud, in fact, bitcoin was created specifically to cheat on taxes, avoid regulations, perform political incorrect or illegal transactions. I don't think there is much these regulation fanboys can do, in fact they may even play a positive role in making bitcoin somewhat accepted by governments until it's too late for them to do anything about it.

You are very wrong. Don't spread misinformation. Tax Fraud hurts the entire community! People like you are hurting bitcoins.
Tax fraud doesn't hurt anyone, in fact quite the opposite. It leaves more money to be spent in the economy hence generating more value for everyone.

How are people like me suppose to run a legal bitcoin business when the government automatically thinks we are Tax scammers cause people like you made them think that. It hurts the community and makes it difficult for people to put that aside and then accept bitcoin. So yes you are indeed hurting the community, and businesses. So stop with your misinformation and spread of bad information.
How are people supposed to run a legal business accepting cash when people use cash to buy drugs? It's just a currency, doesn't matter if people use it for things you consider "bad". Unless we're talking about a centralized system such as liberty reserve since the government can close it.

No the government can use people like you to paint the entire community as "bad people". We don't need that right now. We are still small. Go read my other threads about this and I think you would agree, unless your not a team player and rather legal people, go to jail for people like you.
TheKoziTwo
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June 22, 2013, 07:11:54 PM
 #11

I doubt I'll stop preaching my anti-authoritarian message, but I wouldn't mind hearing your arguments, link?

ktttn
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June 22, 2013, 08:23:13 PM
 #12

I doubt I'll stop preaching my anti-authoritarian message, but I wouldn't mind hearing your arguments, link?

Well then your enemy of the community and that is sad, cause your hurting us!

Letmegogetsomepopcorn.gif

Smash the State.
Render unto caesar.
Do crimes? Good luck not getting arrested.
You're gonna get arrested, though.

EDIT: Holy christ, gweedo... I'm really trying not to ignorebutton you. I really am.
Throw me a bone, here.

Wit all my solidarities,
-ktttn
Ever see a gutterpunk spanging for cryptocoins?
LfkJXVy8DanHm6aKegnmzvY8ZJuw8Dp4Qc
TheKoziTwo
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June 22, 2013, 08:27:09 PM
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I doubt I'll stop preaching my anti-authoritarian message, but I wouldn't mind hearing your arguments, link?

Well then your enemy of the community and that is sad, cause your hurting us!

itsunderstood
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June 22, 2013, 08:36:58 PM
 #14

laws and legislators are foul things.

They spew from a foul pit of iniquity.  Usury and slavery come from the same pit.

When court is held outside again, as in the past, and when people can jeer or cheer at the judges again, as in the past, then law can approach fairness to all.  In ye olden days, court was combat, you might have to fight your opponent with flail and hammer.  The one whose skull be not crufhed, is obviously by God, the rightful party.

But obviously they have replaced the combat courts, with mimed pretend-combat Perry Mason style, between sages of lawbooks.  

What would Perry Mason do when his country becomes the East German Stasi Police?  Would he remain a crap ass lawyer or would he defect and come to the side of the people?

Check out my prescient ATS thread from 2008: "Windows XP: End the Cyberwar, Open the Code Now!" http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread411978/pg1
r3wt
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June 22, 2013, 08:39:41 PM
 #15

ill never understand why people use bitcoin and tor for illegal activities. neither one is as anonymous as you think. in fact, bitcoin allows anyone  with access to the block explorer to trace your every financial move. on top of that, its not hard to reverse someones ip when they exit a tor node.

My negative trust rating is reflective of a personal vendetta by someone on default trust.
ktttn
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June 22, 2013, 08:43:33 PM
 #16

I doubt I'll stop preaching my anti-authoritarian message, but I wouldn't mind hearing your arguments, link?

Well then your enemy of the community and that is sad, cause your hurting us!

Letmegogetsomepopcorn.gif

Smash the State.
Render unto caesar.
Do crimes? Good luck not getting arrested.
You're gonna get arrested, though.

EDIT: Holy christ, gweedo... I'm really trying not to ignorebutton you. I really am.
Throw me a bone, here.

I should care why you don't ignore me? Don't really care...

I doubt I'll stop preaching my anti-authoritarian message, but I wouldn't mind hearing your arguments, link?

Well then your enemy of the community and that is sad, cause your hurting us!

Just cause we have the power to do tax evasion, why should we... We should play by the rules so the government can't do anything to us, then when or if the situation calls for tax fraud and evasion we then have the power to do it. But instead you want to do it now, bringing heat on all of us, that are trying to be legal. Thank you! People like you have no idea what is happening in bitcoin or how we should be playing our hands.
Lost cause? No!
There is no playing by the rules.
There is no even knowing a tenth of the rules, unless you're an obsessed judge or something-even then, the laws are contradictory.
H&R Block will look at you crosseyed if you roll up in there talking about how you wanna pay taxes on your BTC.
Imma keep you off ignore for a sec.

Wit all my solidarities,
-ktttn
Ever see a gutterpunk spanging for cryptocoins?
LfkJXVy8DanHm6aKegnmzvY8ZJuw8Dp4Qc
mdot
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June 22, 2013, 08:45:25 PM
 #17

I doubt I'll stop preaching my anti-authoritarian message, but I wouldn't mind hearing your arguments, link?

Well then your enemy of the community and that is sad, cause your hurting us!

Letmegogetsomepopcorn.gif

Smash the State.
Render unto caesar.
Do crimes? Good luck not getting arrested.
You're gonna get arrested, though.

EDIT: Holy christ, gweedo... I'm really trying not to ignorebutton you. I really am.
Throw me a bone, here.

I should care why you don't ignore me? Don't really care...

I doubt I'll stop preaching my anti-authoritarian message, but I wouldn't mind hearing your arguments, link?

Well then your enemy of the community and that is sad, cause your hurting us!

Just cause we have the power to do tax evasion, why should we... We should play by the rules so the government can't do anything to us, then when or if the situation calls for tax fraud and evasion we then have the power to do it. But instead you want to do it now, bringing heat on all of us, that are trying to be legal. Thank you! People like you have no idea what is happening in bitcoin or how we should be playing our hands.


You make no sense
TheKoziTwo
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June 22, 2013, 08:48:44 PM
 #18

Just cause we have the power to do tax evasion, why should we... We should play by the rules so the government can't do anything to us, then when or if the situation calls for tax fraud and evasion we then have the power to do it. But instead you want to do it now, bringing heat on all of us, that are trying to be legal.
Yeah you just keep on believing that BS and leave the rest of us alone please.

Thank you! People like you have no idea what is happening in bitcoin or how we should be playing our hands.

TheKoziTwo
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June 22, 2013, 08:55:04 PM
 #19

Just cause we have the power to do tax evasion, why should we... We should play by the rules so the government can't do anything to us, then when or if the situation calls for tax fraud and evasion we then have the power to do it. But instead you want to do it now, bringing heat on all of us, that are trying to be legal.
Yeah you just keep on believing that BS and leave the rest of us alone please.

Thank you! People like you have no idea what is happening in bitcoin or how we should be playing our hands.

You can't post a logical argument cause you know I am right, keep posting your images.


Am I supposed to answer a personal attack with logical arguments? No wonder your ignore button is shining.

TheKoziTwo
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June 22, 2013, 08:59:52 PM
 #20

Government can do anything they want to us as long as we play by their rules. They simply have to adapt the law however they see fit. I don't believe in progress by following their arbitrary rules.

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