How will Lightning work in practise?

[Matias]

 How will Lightning work in practise? I’ve read, that in practise Lightning network won’t work as a peer to peer network, but more like a hub network.

https://medium.com/@jonaldfyookball/mathematical-proof-that-the-lightning-network-cannot-be-a-decentralized-bitcoin-scaling-solution-1b8147650800

So we will have like payment card firms or “banks” which will offer lightning network payment card and apps in smart phones and we will pay with them in shops?

I don't see this as a bad thing, because this will explode bitcoins use.

I believe some will see this kind of centralisation as a bad thing, but I myself see Lightning-network as a great application, because it will bring bitcoin to the masses.
One thing to notice is, that Lightning-network is not _Bitcoin-blockchain_. It is implemented outside blockchain (only entry and exit points are attached to blockchain) and blockchain mining and transactions will continue as before. And if you don’t want to use Lighning, you can do all the transactions in blockchain as before

I believe that in few years from now you will have Lighning based BTC payment card and you can pay with it in brick and mortar shops.

[bob123]

So we will have like payment card firms or “banks” which will offer lightning network payment card and apps in smart phones and we will pay with them in shops?

Not really. There won't be any apps. This also won't lead to centralisation of bitcoin. You can think of the lightning network more as side channel.
You will have the ability to join a channel (probably directly out of your wallet). Inside this channel you can then send your transaction.
After a bunch of transactions are collected, there will be one (bigger) transaction which will be pushed onto the bitcoin network.
This will lead to a lower "average size" of the individual tx's.

[Matias]

I’m completely layman, but if you read the article I linked in OP, it claims, that in practice Lightning doesn’t work without hubs.

[achow101]

How will Lightning work in practise? I’ve read, that in practise Lightning network won’t work as a peer to peer network, but more like a hub network.

https://medium.com/@jonaldfyookball/mathematical-proof-that-the-lightning-network-cannot-be-a-decentralized-bitcoin-scaling-solution-1b8147650800

That article is completely incorrect. It assumes an extremely degenerate case will be what actually happens even though that is extremely unlikely. The model and fundamental understanding of LN in that article is completely incorrect. Here's a response to that article that explains why it is incorrect: https://medium.com/@murchandamus/i-have-just-read-jonald-fyookballs-article-https-medium-com-jonaldfyookball-mathematical-fd112d13737a.

[Matias]

I have basic questions;

If I  want to use LN in shops a, b and c, do I need to make Funding Transaction with all of them?

What about the shops, do they need to make Funding Transaction with all of their customers (this would obviously be expensive for shops)? Or if customers accept, that money will go only go from customer to shop (one direction), does the channel need  Funding Transaction from shop side?

[HeRetiK]

I have basic questions;

If I  want to use LN in shops a, b and c, do I need to make Funding Transaction with all of them?

What about the shops, do they need to make Funding Transaction with all of their customers (this would obviously be expensive for shops)? Or if customers accept, that money will go only go from customer to shop (one direction), does the channel need  Funding Transaction from shop side?

Nope and nope.

You don't need to have direct channels with every party that you transact with. As long as whatever lightning network node you are connected with has a route to the party you intend to pay you don't need to open a fresh transaction channel.

[Matias]

Ok, good.

[acquafredda]

So long as the first and foremost element is the Bitcoin Protocol with its own set of rules and this doesn't get clogged by any 2nd, 3rd, 4th ... layer I don't think Lightning networks are going to be much problematic afterwards.
Thing is these new layers are a bit far away in terms of deployment and I do hope there will be usable versions of so-called Lightning network nodes soon.

But I want to stress again the importance of the first foundational layer, the Bitcoin network: without that there's nothing  

Useful link for OP https://medium.com/@btc_coach/lightning-network-in-action-b18a035c955d

[litmus]

So long as the first and foremost element is the Bitcoin Protocol with its own set of rules and this doesn't get clogged by any 2nd, 3rd, 4th ... layer I don't think Lightning networks are going to be much problematic afterwards.
Thing is these new layers are a bit far away in terms of deployment and I do hope there will be usable versions of so-called Lightning network nodes soon.

But I want to stress again the importance of the first foundational layer, the Bitcoin network: without that there's nothing  

Useful link for OP https://medium.com/@btc_coach/lightning-network-in-action-b18a035c955d

Useful link for all. Thanks. I think that "first foundational layer, the Bitcoin network" issue remaining, there's more and more impetus that ETH-type transactions are the way things will go.

[acquafredda]

Ethereum needs to solve lots of issues before it can even be considered better than the Bitcoin protocol. I don't see what you said happening anytime soon.
Also please read this that came out recently
https://twitter.com/SatoshiLite/status/931278384864288768
I think the road is already paved.