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Author Topic: BitSyncom, will all the chip orders ship together?  (Read 11157 times)
Rampion
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June 23, 2013, 11:45:45 AM
 #21

I guess you know TSMC has a very standard lead time of 8 to 12 weeks from order to delivery, depending on both the characteristics of your order and their current workload.

If thats true it wouldnt be good because the first batches turned to chips ordered 5 weeks after paying. That would mean avalon couldnt keep his delivery window of 9-10 weeks.

Unfortunately it looks like there will be delays as usual, lead time for sample chips was 4 weeks and for those who ordered on April, 16th they arrived one month late. Then, official lead time for the chips was 8 to 10 weeks, so the chips for the very first orders should arrive next week, which is very unlikely IMO.

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June 23, 2013, 11:50:48 AM
 #22

I guess you know TSMC has a very standard lead time of 8 to 12 weeks from order to delivery, depending on both the characteristics of your order and their current workload.

If thats true it wouldnt be good because the first batches turned to chips ordered 5 weeks after paying. That would mean avalon couldnt keep his delivery window of 9-10 weeks.

Unfortunately it looks like there will be delays as usual, lead time for sample chips was 4 weeks and for those who ordered on April, 16th they arrived one month late. Then, official lead time for the chips was 8 to 10 weeks, so the chips for the very first orders should arrive next week, which is very unlikely IMO.

The thing is... the miners were delivered later because of production problems of the miners. I dont see why something like that could apply to the chips.

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June 23, 2013, 11:57:11 AM
 #23

I guess you know TSMC has a very standard lead time of 8 to 12 weeks from order to delivery, depending on both the characteristics of your order and their current workload.

If thats true it wouldnt be good because the first batches turned to chips ordered 5 weeks after paying. That would mean avalon couldnt keep his delivery window of 9-10 weeks.

Unfortunately it looks like there will be delays as usual, lead time for sample chips was 4 weeks and for those who ordered on April, 16th they arrived one month late. Then, official lead time for the chips was 8 to 10 weeks, so the chips for the very first orders should arrive next week, which is very unlikely IMO.

The thing is... the miners were delivered later because of production problems of the miners. I dont see why something like that could apply to the chips.

True, but a fact remains: sample chips were one month late for all those who ordered in Mid April, Avalon doubled the advertised lead time (4 weeks became 8 weeks)

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June 23, 2013, 12:04:03 PM
 #24

I guess you know TSMC has a very standard lead time of 8 to 12 weeks from order to delivery, depending on both the characteristics of your order and their current workload.

If thats true it wouldnt be good because the first batches turned to chips ordered 5 weeks after paying. That would mean avalon couldnt keep his delivery window of 9-10 weeks.

Unfortunately it looks like there will be delays as usual, lead time for sample chips was 4 weeks and for those who ordered on April, 16th they arrived one month late. Then, official lead time for the chips was 8 to 10 weeks, so the chips for the very first orders should arrive next week, which is very unlikely IMO.

The thing is... the miners were delivered later because of production problems of the miners. I dont see why something like that could apply to the chips.

True, but a fact remains: sample chips were one month late for all those who ordered in Mid April, Avalon doubled the advertised lead time (4 weeks became 8 weeks)

IIRC Avalon was/is late on all 3 batches.  Expecting different results this time I fear is going to lead to more disappointment.

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erschiessen
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June 23, 2013, 12:34:46 PM
 #25

Avalon is Cantonese for ButterflyLabs.

It will be good for ALL when real manufacturers come to market.

So far the bitcoin community is filled with scammers, wannabes, carpet-baggers and assholes.

Oooh, poor Yifu. Can not be bothered to lower himself to communicate with people looking to invest small fortunes in his company.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCNrK-n68CM

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June 23, 2013, 03:46:31 PM
 #26

Avalon is Cantonese for ButterflyLabs.

It will be good for ALL when real manufacturers come to market.

So far the bitcoin community is filled with scammers, wannabes, carpet-baggers and assholes.

Oooh, poor Yifu. Can not be bothered to lower himself to communicate with people looking to invest small fortunes in his company.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCNrK-n68CM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV7aM32Jur8

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June 23, 2013, 04:59:12 PM
 #27

Probably not important for you, but it is for me.

Chill out dude, we've got thousands riding on this too. Take a deep breath and worry about something else.

(Or are you planning to execute your own chip order today? Why would you make such a large purchase so long after the chips were announced?)

Of course I want to, thats why I am so anxious. I did not have any money earlier on. I have now. If all the chips are being manufactured together, then I would order Avalon. If its in batches, and I am looking at a September delivery, then I would invest in KNC.

Then just split your funds and invest 50/50 and get a sure bet (supposed "sure" is an appropriate word in this environment).
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June 23, 2013, 05:01:35 PM
 #28

Probably not important for you, but it is for me.

Chill out dude, we've got thousands riding on this too. Take a deep breath and worry about something else.

(Or are you planning to execute your own chip order today? Why would you make such a large purchase so long after the chips were announced?)

Of course I want to, thats why I am so anxious. I did not have any money earlier on. I have now. If all the chips are being manufactured together, then I would order Avalon. If its in batches, and I am looking at a September delivery, then I would invest in KNC.

Then just split your funds and invest 50/50 and get a sure bet (supposed "sure" is an appropriate word in this environment).

Or sack that, why don't you just wait and reevaluate come September?

It's their race,it doesn't have to become yours! Keep your head man!!

Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful Smiley BTC Address --->
1487ThaKjezGA6SiE8fvGcxbgJJu6XWtZp
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June 23, 2013, 06:31:07 PM
 #29


Or sack that, why don't you just wait and reevaluate come September?

It's their race,it doesn't have to become yours! Keep your head man!!

Because betting on a horse that already won is pointless?
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June 23, 2013, 06:55:08 PM
 #30


Or sack that, why don't you just wait and reevaluate come September?

It's their race,it doesn't have to become yours! Keep your head man!!

Because betting on a horse that already won is pointless?

Rrrriiiiggght, so you think this is solely about quickly making as much cash as possible on ASIC development, and nothing about securing the Bitcoin network, therefore adding more value and laying a stronger underlying foundation to the Bitcoin network's security?

2-3months is a hell of a long time with genuine new entrants arriving weekly, increasing hashrate and lowering the chance of ROI for all those already with funds  tied up in pre-orders, There may well be more chance to profit later than the expense now, really. The current players will have to alter their pricing startergy sooner, or later to reman competitive, and they sure as hell won't do it whilst they owe investors an already present backlog of orders, or that will piss off their crop of investors!

Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful Smiley BTC Address --->
1487ThaKjezGA6SiE8fvGcxbgJJu6XWtZp
jspielberg
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June 23, 2013, 07:44:43 PM
 #31

If anyone doesn't like Bitsyncom's terms, it looks like contrary to their original messaging, they are allowing full refunds.
You just need to create a support ticket and put "REFUND" as the type of the ticket.

So far as I know... no one has taken them up on this offer even though some folks have been complaining about the shipment delays for months.

If you are feeling like you need to hedge... you can order the batch of chips and hope they arrive together.

If they don't arrive in your "window" of opportunity, submit a refund request.
Worst case, they either give back your BTC, or they escalate your order.... my guess would be the former.

I guess worst worst case is they don't ship your chips and they don't refund your BTC... but I don't think they could withstand the negative fallout of that option.
Just make sure to order from a wallet you control and can validate.

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June 23, 2013, 08:19:36 PM
 #32


Or sack that, why don't you just wait and reevaluate come September?

It's their race,it doesn't have to become yours! Keep your head man!!

Because betting on a horse that already won is pointless?

Rrrriiiiggght, so you think this is solely about quickly making as much cash as possible on ASIC development, and nothing about securing the Bitcoin network, therefore adding more value and laying a stronger underlying foundation to the Bitcoin network's security?

2-3months is a hell of a long time with genuine new entrants arriving weekly, increasing hashrate and lowering the chance of ROI for all those already with funds  tied up in pre-orders, There may well be more chance to profit later than the expense now, really. The current players will have to alter their pricing startergy sooner, or later to reman competitive, and they sure as hell won't do it whilst they owe investors an already present backlog of orders, or that will piss off their crop of investors!

Be honest, in your opinion, how many are left here for the purpose of the well-being of the Bitcoin network? This libertarian dream had been corrupted and shattered months ago. Some nerds and early adopters still hold on to it, because they have a bunch of spare BTC in their pockets, out of sheer luck or a head start on information, making it easy to hurl these BTCs around in every available investment possibility. In my opinion, the most that got in lately, are simply here to make money and jump on a train, that already took up steam heavily.

For them, it's not about making as much cash as possible, but to get out even on their invest, or to make any cash at all.
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June 23, 2013, 08:49:25 PM
 #33


Or sack that, why don't you just wait and reevaluate come September?

It's their race,it doesn't have to become yours! Keep your head man!!

Because betting on a horse that already won is pointless?

Rrrriiiiggght, so you think this is solely about quickly making as much cash as possible on ASIC development, and nothing about securing the Bitcoin network, therefore adding more value and laying a stronger underlying foundation to the Bitcoin network's security?

2-3months is a hell of a long time with genuine new entrants arriving weekly, increasing hashrate and lowering the chance of ROI for all those already with funds  tied up in pre-orders, There may well be more chance to profit later than the expense now, really. The current players will have to alter their pricing startergy sooner, or later to reman competitive, and they sure as hell won't do it whilst they owe investors an already present backlog of orders, or that will piss off their crop of investors!

Be honest, in your opinion, how many are left here for the purpose of the well-being of the Bitcoin network? This libertarian dream had been corrupted and shattered months ago. Some nerds and early adopters still hold on to it, because they have a bunch of spare BTC in their pockets, out of sheer luck or a head start on information, making it easy to hurl these BTCs around in every available investment possibility. In my opinion, the most that got in lately, are simply here to make money and jump on a train, that already took up steam heavily.

For them, it's not about making as much cash as possible, but to get out even on their invest, or to make any cash at all.

Well in that case we'll have to see what happens to all these ASICs after people break even, and the Bitcoin network once it becomes less profitable than some anticipated.

Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful Smiley BTC Address --->
1487ThaKjezGA6SiE8fvGcxbgJJu6XWtZp
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June 24, 2013, 02:05:06 AM
 #34

If anyone doesn't like Bitsyncom's terms, it looks like contrary to their original messaging, they are allowing full refunds.
You just need to create a support ticket and put "REFUND" as the type of the ticket.

So far as I know... no one has taken them up on this offer even though some folks have been complaining about the shipment delays for months.

If you are feeling like you need to hedge... you can order the batch of chips and hope they arrive together.

If they don't arrive in your "window" of opportunity, submit a refund request.
Worst case, they either give back your BTC, or they escalate your order.... my guess would be the former.

I guess worst worst case is they don't ship your chips and they don't refund your BTC... but I don't think they could withstand the negative fallout of that option.
Just make sure to order from a wallet you control and can validate.

Has anyone ever requested and got back a refund from Avalon?
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June 24, 2013, 02:16:55 AM
 #35

If anyone doesn't like Bitsyncom's terms, it looks like contrary to their original messaging, they are allowing full refunds.
You just need to create a support ticket and put "REFUND" as the type of the ticket.

So far as I know... no one has taken them up on this offer even though some folks have been complaining about the shipment delays for months.

If you are feeling like you need to hedge... you can order the batch of chips and hope they arrive together.

If they don't arrive in your "window" of opportunity, submit a refund request.
Worst case, they either give back your BTC, or they escalate your order.... my guess would be the former.

I guess worst worst case is they don't ship your chips and they don't refund your BTC... but I don't think they could withstand the negative fallout of that option.
Just make sure to order from a wallet you control and can validate.

Has anyone ever requested and got back a refund from Avalon?

we opened refunding option for batch #3 order since it is quite delayed, batch 2 is shipping and should be finished shipping in the end of the month, then batch #3 is to start right after, we are not refunding chip orders since the coins gets sold and is used to pay for chip order at foundry, canceling is not really possible.

but essentially we put in order for chips every week, by early July the chips that were ordered when we opened orders should be out the door by then.

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June 24, 2013, 02:32:21 AM
 #36

If anyone doesn't like Bitsyncom's terms, it looks like contrary to their original messaging, they are allowing full refunds.
You just need to create a support ticket and put "REFUND" as the type of the ticket.

So far as I know... no one has taken them up on this offer even though some folks have been complaining about the shipment delays for months.

If you are feeling like you need to hedge... you can order the batch of chips and hope they arrive together.

If they don't arrive in your "window" of opportunity, submit a refund request.
Worst case, they either give back your BTC, or they escalate your order.... my guess would be the former.

I guess worst worst case is they don't ship your chips and they don't refund your BTC... but I don't think they could withstand the negative fallout of that option.
Just make sure to order from a wallet you control and can validate.

Has anyone ever requested and got back a refund from Avalon?

we opened refunding option for batch #3 order since it is quite delayed, batch 2 is shipping and should be finished shipping in the end of the month, then batch #3 is to start right after, we are not refunding chip orders since the coins gets sold and is used to pay for chip order at foundry, canceling is not really possible.

but essentially we put in order for chips every week, by early July the chips that were ordered when we opened orders should be out the door by then.

Thanks for the reply. So are you saying that you are not refunding Chip Orders because you sell the Bitcoins immediately and use the money to pay to the foundry? Can you then explain this: https://blockchain.info/address/1FGAftzSTztFSB8LMwsrdCKTyqGY6zr3sU ?

This is the BTC address where all the bitcoins from all the Chip Orders are routed to. You have not even touched a single bitcoin yet!
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June 24, 2013, 02:44:47 AM
 #37


Thanks for the reply. So are you saying that you are not refunding Chip Orders because you sell the Bitcoins immediately and use the money to pay to the foundry? Can you then explain this: https://blockchain.info/address/1FGAftzSTztFSB8LMwsrdCKTyqGY6zr3sU ?

This is the BTC address where all the bitcoins from all the Chip Orders are routed to. You have not even touched a single bitcoin yet!

They can be spending out of a different account... or... that account with the chip sales isn't theirs.  They have sold it to an investor who converts to fiat for them.  There are several options as to how they could be funding chip sales immediately.

It is a bit sad that B3 won't get some time to earn a return on investment before chips start flowing... as it looks like some folks will be getting their B3 after chips have been sent (and have turned into clone miners).  Yifu is in a hard spot with honoring chip sales, and the unanticipated manufacturing delays with B2 and B3. Offering refunds for the B3 orders is a kind gesture that is above and beyond.


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June 24, 2013, 03:43:59 AM
 #38

Probably not important for you, but it is for me.

Chill out dude, we've got thousands riding on this too. Take a deep breath and worry about something else.

(Or are you planning to execute your own chip order today? Why would you make such a large purchase so long after the chips were announced?)

Of course I want to, thats why I am so anxious. I did not have any money earlier on. I have now. If all the chips are being manufactured together, then I would order Avalon. If its in batches, and I am looking at a September delivery, then I would invest in KNC.

It is FAR more likely Avalon will deliver in one batch than KNC will deliver before December.

Source for your speculation?

Care to explain why Avalon should deliver at the same time one order placed TODAY and one placed on April, 16th?

I guess you know TSMC has a very standard lead time of 8 to 12 weeks from order to delivery, depending on both the characteristics of your order and their current workload. Why Avalon should be waiting for OP's chips to send the order to TSMC? Or maybe you are implying that Avalon just ordered chips in excess to accommodate later orders with a timely delivery?

Very unlikely, they never said they would do that.

The logic is simple. Avalon has proven chips being made by the largest semiconductor foundry in the world.

KNCMiner has vague promises about making a 22nm chip (the current state of the art for companies like Intel) and getting miners manufactured in an EXTREMELY short timescale. The mass-manufacturing aspect has resulted in difficulties for both BFL and Avalon.

As for TSMC and their lead times - most of that lead-time is due to mask fab. Once the full mask set is done and the wafer flows set up, the lead time for each additional wafer is quite short. Assuming that the lead time would be the same for a second batch is extremely naive.

The biggest wildcard for TSMC is hot lots from big customers pushing back the order. But that'd be variability of only a few days to a week.

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June 24, 2013, 03:52:54 AM
 #39

If anyone doesn't like Bitsyncom's terms, it looks like contrary to their original messaging, they are allowing full refunds.
You just need to create a support ticket and put "REFUND" as the type of the ticket.

So far as I know... no one has taken them up on this offer even though some folks have been complaining about the shipment delays for months.

If you are feeling like you need to hedge... you can order the batch of chips and hope they arrive together.

If they don't arrive in your "window" of opportunity, submit a refund request.
Worst case, they either give back your BTC, or they escalate your order.... my guess would be the former.

I guess worst worst case is they don't ship your chips and they don't refund your BTC... but I don't think they could withstand the negative fallout of that option.
Just make sure to order from a wallet you control and can validate.

Has anyone ever requested and got back a refund from Avalon?

we opened refunding option for batch #3 order since it is quite delayed, batch 2 is shipping and should be finished shipping in the end of the month, then batch #3 is to start right after, we are not refunding chip orders since the coins gets sold and is used to pay for chip order at foundry, canceling is not really possible.

but essentially we put in order for chips every week, by early July the chips that were ordered when we opened orders should be out the door by then.

Yifu... that is provably untrue. Not a single coin paid into the wallet that received payment for chip orders (782.1 BTC per 10,000 chips) has been moved, let alone sold.

http://blockchain.info/address/1FGAftzSTztFSB8LMwsrdCKTyqGY6zr3sU?offset=0&filter=0

I want to give you the benefit of the doubt here, but the information suggests otherwise.

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June 24, 2013, 04:12:10 AM
 #40

If anyone doesn't like Bitsyncom's terms, it looks like contrary to their original messaging, they are allowing full refunds.
You just need to create a support ticket and put "REFUND" as the type of the ticket.

So far as I know... no one has taken them up on this offer even though some folks have been complaining about the shipment delays for months.

If you are feeling like you need to hedge... you can order the batch of chips and hope they arrive together.

If they don't arrive in your "window" of opportunity, submit a refund request.
Worst case, they either give back your BTC, or they escalate your order.... my guess would be the former.

I guess worst worst case is they don't ship your chips and they don't refund your BTC... but I don't think they could withstand the negative fallout of that option.
Just make sure to order from a wallet you control and can validate.

Has anyone ever requested and got back a refund from Avalon?

we opened refunding option for batch #3 order since it is quite delayed, batch 2 is shipping and should be finished shipping in the end of the month, then batch #3 is to start right after, we are not refunding chip orders since the coins gets sold and is used to pay for chip order at foundry, canceling is not really possible.

but essentially we put in order for chips every week, by early July the chips that were ordered when we opened orders should be out the door by then.

Yifu... that is provably untrue. Not a single coin paid into the wallet that received payment for chip orders (782.1 BTC per 10,000 chips) has been moved, let alone sold.

http://blockchain.info/address/1FGAftzSTztFSB8LMwsrdCKTyqGY6zr3sU?offset=0&filter=0

I want to give you the benefit of the doubt here, but the information suggests otherwise.

I addressed this awhile ago, who says that address is ours to begin with?

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