AskDevs (a solution to the controversy and quality problems with Devtome)

[Luckybit]

AskDevs:

An idea for a site to leverage cryptocurrencies. A business model. A better Devtome.

This is a site I would set up myself if I had both the time, resources and expertise. Since I do not, instead I'll give this idea to the community so that maybe a bounty or series of bounties can be set up to create this site for the benefit of both the community, and for Devcoin.

The idea is to create a question/answer site which leverages the knowledge of the crowd/community. The difference between this site and all the other similar ask sites is that this site will pay people for answers creating a market which both funds the site but also encourages people to share knowledge and give answers. Unlike Devtome where knowledge is shared but it's not always relevant to solving a particular problem, this would be relevant to solving particular problems. In this way quality would not go down and there would not be an issue with individuals spamming.

The mechanics of the site would work like this:

1) People ask a question to the site, pledging Devcoins as the bounty to whomever answers it.
2) Viewers will see the questions pop up and vote up the questions by adding to the bounty. Each vote will cost Devcoins.
3) People begin answering the questions, the best answer(s) collect the bounty. The person asking the question can set it so the top 5 best answers or the top 1 best answer etc. In the case of multiple parties giving good answers the bounty would be split between each proportionally.

If anyone can implement this idea then contact me and let me know, or maybe we can set up a bounty if we think the idea can work. I do think this would be better than Devtome is today. But please give this idea a thorough peer review and shoot it down if it wont work.

[wiser]

Here's a variation to consider--might be an easier way to start.

Have a form on the Devtome or related to the Devtome where people can submit what it is they most want to read.  It could be a type of fiction story, an answer to a burning question, or anything, really, as long as the request is specific.  For example, instead of saying: "I like to read fiction," they should say "I'd like to read a thriller in which a hostile government attempts to destroy a promising cryptocoin by adding a malicious bug to automatic software updates which systematically deletes people's wallets and a band of scrappy computer hacks saves the day."  BTW, my "example" is referencing this thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=237284.0) in case anyone is curious as to how I came up with it

Submissions could be posted (following some screening process) and Devtome writers could choose to take on those subjects.  Rather than having the one who submitted the request put up a bounty, just have those stories count double or something.  So if I wrote a 30,000 word short novel covering the above topic, then rather than earning 30 shares I'd earn 60, just because I wrote something that someone else said they wanted to read.  Any multiplier could work; I just use 2 as an example.  I'd still earn 1 share for every thousand words I wrote that was just my own choice of content.

If there are enough people submitting requests, they could probably be categorized and aggregated and maybe increased rewards given for people writing content which has been requested multiple times.  

Along with that, you would need a systematic way to keep track of people's emails (something you'd want to do anyway) and then sending them a message when their request has been fulfilled.  Along with that, you could build in a small reward system for those users (not writers but people who request specific types of content to read)  who then share the content written for them with their friends--maybe some small number of devcoins for each view a unique link to their requested article brings.  Maybe the writer could also earn some portion of referrals as well?

I'm not a computer person, so I'm not sure how feasible the above idea is, nor how easy it would be to exploit.  I'm assuming the computer people can figure that out and come up with appropriate countermeasures if this is something that should move forward.  An obvious issue that comes to mind is that someone who submits a request for content cannot be the same person as the writer who fulfills the request.  Also, submissions themselves would have to be vetted as being sent by real, unique people (no repeats).

From a writer perspective, a Devtome writer should be able to "reserve" a request and have a limited and reasonable time in which that writer has exclusive right to answer the request (although in the above example, there's probably no good reason there couldn't be five or ten thrillers written that fulfill it, and that would be fine as long as each writer was adequately compensated).  I personally would want to avoid the scenario where I'm in competition with other writers to produce the "best" answer and it's a winner take all reward, which is why I suggest having a limited time where if you accept a request it's all yours.  But if you sit on it beyond that time, then it goes back into the pool and another writer can snag it.

Anyway, some ideas to go along with your original idea.  And I say, this is getting long enough that I should just turn it into a Devtome article  If others add their thoughts, maybe I will put together an article that compiles them all or something (it can be difficult to keep information organized in these threads if they get long enough...).

[Luckybit]

Its a nice idea but Rugatu's been slow to get going so it might take a while to get popular. The biggest issue I have with Q and A systems like that is the layout, wikepedia gets edited and re-edited to correctness (yes, I know, but its good for most info) whereas Q and A pages usually mean reading a lot of answers to get an overall picture.

Not sure how that could be improved, often answers use links to wiki articles so if the questions where well categorised then the top answer might work as the devtome article or section on that subject and further improved edits of that piece be awarded from the questions bounty. Just thinking out loud there, that would still be vulnerable to the same kind of crap as the Bitcoin wikipedia article.

I didn't know Rugatu existed but yeah that is exactly the sort of idea I'm thinking about.

How can we do it? I don't have time to code it but if there is an open source solution or if a programmer bounty can be set up then lets do it.

[Luckybit]

Here's a variation to consider--might be an easier way to start.

Have a form on the Devtome or related to the Devtome where people can submit what it is they most want to read.  It could be a type of fiction story, an answer to a burning question, or anything, really, as long as the request is specific.  For example, instead of saying: "I like to read fiction," they should say "I'd like to read a thriller in which a hostile government attempts to destroy a promising cryptocoin by adding a malicious bug to automatic software updates which systematically deletes people's wallets and a band of scrappy computer hacks saves the day."  BTW, my "example" is referencing this thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=237284.0) in case anyone is curious as to how I came up with it

Submissions could be posted (following some screening process) and Devtome writers could choose to take on those subjects.  Rather than having the one who submitted the request put up a bounty, just have those stories count double or something.  So if I wrote a 30,000 word short novel covering the above topic, then rather than earning 30 shares I'd earn 60, just because I wrote something that someone else said they wanted to read.  Any multiplier could work; I just use 2 as an example.  I'd still earn 1 share for every thousand words I wrote that was just my own choice of content.

If there are enough people submitting requests, they could probably be categorized and aggregated and maybe increased rewards given for people writing content which has been requested multiple times.  

Along with that, you would need a systematic way to keep track of people's emails (something you'd want to do anyway) and then sending them a message when their request has been fulfilled.  Along with that, you could build in a small reward system for those users (not writers but people who request specific types of content to read)  who then share the content written for them with their friends--maybe some small number of devcoins for each view a unique link to their requested article brings.  Maybe the writer could also earn some portion of referrals as well?

I'm not a computer person, so I'm not sure how feasible the above idea is, nor how easy it would be to exploit.  I'm assuming the computer people can figure that out and come up with appropriate countermeasures if this is something that should move forward.  An obvious issue that comes to mind is that someone who submits a request for content cannot be the same person as the writer who fulfills the request.  Also, submissions themselves would have to be vetted as being sent by real, unique people (no repeats).

From a writer perspective, a Devtome writer should be able to "reserve" a request and have a limited and reasonable time in which that writer has exclusive right to answer the request (although in the above example, there's probably no good reason there couldn't be five or ten thrillers written that fulfill it, and that would be fine as long as each writer was adequately compensated).  I personally would want to avoid the scenario where I'm in competition with other writers to produce the "best" answer and it's a winner take all reward, which is why I suggest having a limited time where if you accept a request it's all yours.  But if you sit on it beyond that time, then it goes back into the pool and another writer can snag it.

Anyway, some ideas to go along with your original idea.  And I say, this is getting long enough that I should just turn it into a Devtome article  If others add their thoughts, maybe I will put together an article that compiles them all or something (it can be difficult to keep information organized in these threads if they get long enough...).

Google has a cool feature which seems to use regular expressions, where you type into the bar and it automatically and instantly shows you results. I think that kind of search functionary would solve any problem with the interface, just ask your question.

Hashtags are nice too.

As far as competition goes, I think competition for the best solution produces the best solutions. So that would be a good thing for somethings. There could be other sites which aren't as competition focused but my site uses the survival of the fittest algorithm to make the best solutions rise to the top.  

My idea is basically a knowledge distribution system where it taps into the brilliant minds of the Bitcoin community. Some of the smartest and most knowledgeable people on the planet are part of this community. Why not encourage knowledge sharing by economic incentive while also boosting the market cap for Devcoin, isn't that what Devcoin is all about?

[Lawyer]

http://www.osqa.net/

This is currently one of the more popular Q and A open sourced platforms out there.

[Luckybit]

http://www.osqa.net/

This is currently one of the more popular Q and A open sourced platforms out there.

The source code for Rugatu https://bitbucket.org/paraipan/rugatu/src

Anyway, I snatched up the domain names. So now how to implement? I have not figured out how best to manage the payment system in Devcoins.

[wiser]

As far as competition goes, I think competition for the best solution produces the best solutions. So that would be a good thing for somethings. There could be other sites which aren't as competition focused but my site uses the survival of the fittest algorithm to make the best solutions rise to the top.  

I agree that often competition does produce the best solutions.  I just know that I am not going to enjoy spending time composing an answer only to come in second place and get nothing for my efforts.  So I probably won't be participating if that's the case with your site.  But I definitely hope it's successful for you

[Luckybit]

As far as competition goes, I think competition for the best solution produces the best solutions. So that would be a good thing for somethings. There could be other sites which aren't as competition focused but my site uses the survival of the fittest algorithm to make the best solutions rise to the top.  

I agree that often competition does produce the best solutions.  I just know that I am not going to enjoy spending time composing an answer only to come in second place and get nothing for my efforts.  So I probably won't be participating if that's the case with your site.  But I definitely hope it's successful for you

1st to 5th place.

[coinerd]

I tried going to devtome once.

You know I always say "dev to me" even though I guess it's "dev tome".

Anyways, I was not inspired to contribute. Somebody needs to get a curator on that site, stat.

I'm interested in devcoin, quite a bit.  But i can't even find any decent info about it without dealing with Fin Shaagy x 1000.

The wallet seems messed up and does weird things with my hard drive, creating a bunch of misnamed directories and creating all kinds of spreadsheets and whatnot.

And what you're talking about here doesn't seem even related to what's going on at devtome, except that you want to compensate people for writing. It doesn't seem to replace or improve devtome at all.

*sigh*

Sorry this is a scrambled post but every time i look at devcoin stuff that's how i feel. Mixed feelings and scrambled thoughts. Has anyone actually written a description of how this works, or is spread like butter around devtome and massive troll-laden threads buried deep at bitcointalk?

Really I just came in here to post in a devcoin related thread that doesn't have fin shaggy in it (yet). And point out that even though I'm not sure what you're doing makes sense, it's nice to see somebody doing something.

over and out.

[wiser]

Has anyone actually written a description of how this works, or is spread like butter around devtome and massive troll-laden threads buried deep at bitcointalk?

As far as I can tell, the answer is no.  I mean sure, there are pages on the Devtome (and mixed into many long forum threads) that more or less take you through the process you need to register as a writer and begin contributing content, but as far as an easy to follow nontechnical step by step guide which also includes the overall vision and goals for Devcoin and Devtome, all in one handy article, I haven't seen anything like that yet.  Once I piece it together for myself, I may put something like that together.  All it would really take (other than my own experience of the process) is some phone time with the developers, me asking some open ended questions, then listening and taking notes.

I'm finding that those who develop cryptocoins are very good with programming and computer technical stuff, but not so good at putting all that into writing.  On the other hand, I haven't thoroughly explored every corner.

We nontechnical writers can have a role to play in bringing this out of the geek rafters and into ordinary people's everyday life... once we ourselves can wrap our heads around it

[soma13]

This sounds to me like it would work better as something like StackExchange with DevCoin "tipping" for upvoted answers.

Honestly I don't see devtome's value.  There are too many established alternatives:  Wikipedia, various other wikis, blogsites and the like.  I don't see how devtome fills a niche.  Wouldn't it be better to try to convince the current infrastructure to receive devcoin donatoins than try to compete?

[Unthinkingbit]

Here's a variation to consider--might be an easier way to start.

Have a form on the Devtome or related to the Devtome where people can submit what it is they most want to read.  It could be a type of fiction story, an answer to a burning question, or anything, really, as long as the request is specific.  For example, instead of saying: "I like to read fiction," they should say "I'd like to read a thriller in which a hostile government attempts to destroy a promising cryptocoin by adding a malicious bug to automatic software updates which systematically deletes people's wallets and a band of scrappy computer hacks saves the day."  BTW, my "example" is referencing this thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=237284.0) in case anyone is curious as to how I came up with it

Submissions could be posted (following some screening process) and Devtome writers could choose to take on those subjects.  Rather than having the one who submitted the request put up a bounty, just have those stories count double or something.  So if I wrote a 30,000 word short novel covering the above topic, then rather than earning 30 shares I'd earn 60, just because I wrote something that someone else said they wanted to read.  Any multiplier could work; I just use 2 as an example.  I'd still earn 1 share for every thousand words I wrote that was just my own choice of content.
..

I like this idea, because writers already get paid for stories, so another payment system doesn't have to be made.

I'm not a computer person, so I'm not sure how feasible the above idea is, nor how easy it would be to exploit.

Programs take a long time to make, longer than you expect even if you expect the unexpected. Automatic earnings are easy to exploit, at some point you need people to decide on payments.

I'd like to start with a moderated thread where readers could post their questions or story requests, along with how much they'll pay. Writers who want to make extra money could look over the thread and see if there's something worthwhile. Readers should post a first and second prize, so that a writer knows that they'll almost certainly get something, besides the devtome earnings.

If there is a lot of interest, we could make a bounty for a story site or question and answer site. I'm going to make a test post below, and people are welcome to comment on it.

[Unthinkingbit]

Story: Secession
Minimum Length: 5,000 words
First Prize: 1,000,000 devcoins
Second Prize: 500,000 devcoins

Scenario: A group of freedom fanatics buys an island and then secedes! There's at least a hundred of em, the island has enough farmland to support them, they have lots of guns, and they have good communication equipment including cellphones and at least one satellite phone and one ham radio transmitter.

[edd]

Story: Secession
Minimum Length: 5,000 words
First Prize: 1,000,000 devcoins
Second Prize: 500,000 devcoins

Scenario: A group of freedom fanatics buys an island and then secedes! There's at least a hundred of em, the island has enough farmland to support them, they have lots of guns, and they have good communication equipment including cellphones and at least one satellite phone and one ham radio transmitter.

Any deadline for this? I started drafting something tonight but I have to warn you, it doesn't have a happy ending.

[Unthinkingbit]

Story: Secession
Minimum Length: 5,000 words
First Prize: 1,000,000 devcoins
Second Prize: 500,000 devcoins

Scenario: A group of freedom fanatics buys an island and then secedes! There's at least a hundred of em, the island has enough farmland to support them, they have lots of guns, and they have good communication equipment including cellphones and at least one satellite phone and one ham radio transmitter.

Any deadline for this? I started drafting something tonight but I have to warn you, it doesn't have a happy ending.

No deadline, whoever hits 5,000 words first gets first prize.

I started drafting something tonight but I have to warn you, it doesn't have a happy ending.

I didn't expect a happy ending, that's why I made sure they had communications equipment so their heroic sacrifice was remembered

[barwizi]

hehehe.... let me rustle some feathers, first to write a simplified guide on how to apply new algorithms to bitcoin or litecoin source gets 5 BTC.

[Luckybit]

Here's a variation to consider--might be an easier way to start.

Have a form on the Devtome or related to the Devtome where people can submit what it is they most want to read.  It could be a type of fiction story, an answer to a burning question, or anything, really, as long as the request is specific.  For example, instead of saying: "I like to read fiction," they should say "I'd like to read a thriller in which a hostile government attempts to destroy a promising cryptocoin by adding a malicious bug to automatic software updates which systematically deletes people's wallets and a band of scrappy computer hacks saves the day."  BTW, my "example" is referencing this thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=237284.0) in case anyone is curious as to how I came up with it

Submissions could be posted (following some screening process) and Devtome writers could choose to take on those subjects.  Rather than having the one who submitted the request put up a bounty, just have those stories count double or something.  So if I wrote a 30,000 word short novel covering the above topic, then rather than earning 30 shares I'd earn 60, just because I wrote something that someone else said they wanted to read.  Any multiplier could work; I just use 2 as an example.  I'd still earn 1 share for every thousand words I wrote that was just my own choice of content.
..

I like this idea, because writers already get paid for stories, so another payment system doesn't have to be made.

I'm not a computer person, so I'm not sure how feasible the above idea is, nor how easy it would be to exploit.

Programs take a long time to make, longer than you expect even if you expect the unexpected. Automatic earnings are easy to exploit, at some point you need people to decide on payments.

I'd like to start with a moderated thread where readers could post their questions or story requests, along with how much they'll pay. Writers who want to make extra money could look over the thread and see if there's something worthwhile. Readers should post a first and second prize, so that a writer knows that they'll almost certainly get something, besides the devtome earnings.

If there is a lot of interest, we could make a bounty for a story site or question and answer site. I'm going to make a test post below, and people are welcome to comment on it.

If bounties are given, I have the domain name for AskDevs and came up with the idea. Do I get a portion of the bounty? How will the bounty be distributed?

So we going to use this thread as an experiment? If that is the case this will get interesting.

[Unthinkingbit]

..
If bounties are given, I have the domain name for AskDevs and came up with the idea. Do I get a portion of the bounty? How will the bounty be distributed?

If the idea succeeds, you and Wiser will get four shares. I will consider the idea a success if at least one big article is written because of it.

If the idea succeeds big and it's worth making a web site, then you'll be paid for the domain plus some more for your idea.

So we going to use this thread as an experiment? If that is the case this will get interesting.

I'm going to see what people say on this thread over the next few days, then I'll make a new moderated thread and announce it on the main thread.

[Barnacle_Ed]

I like the idea of "bounties for story prompts or specific types of articles" since that can help focus the devtome effort more. Not sure I agree with the payout method being based solely on who finishes first...that does nothing for the quality issues we have debated in the past.

I'd be much more on board with this if there were instead categories to aim for, with an associated reward. For example,

- Fastest completion time: 200,000 DVC
- Most entertaining/amusing story: 200,000 DVC
- Best overall happy ending: 250,000 DVC
- Best overall sad ending: 250,000 DVC

(There could of course be more categories or different categories; these are just a few off-the-top-of-my-head ideas)

Set up a panel of 3-5 impartial judges, get them to all reach conclusions on all these categories, then announce results. There could even be 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place in each category and split up the bounties between them somehow. And perhaps even limit the number of prizes any one entry can receive.






On the subject of a question/answer site: What incentive would I have to use it over well-established services, such as StackOverflow (and related stackexchange sites) or even Yahoo Answers...all of which don't cost me my DVC?

[Luckybit]

..
If bounties are given, I have the domain name for AskDevs and came up with the idea. Do I get a portion of the bounty? How will the bounty be distributed?

If the idea succeeds, you and Wiser will get four shares. I will consider the idea a success if at least one big article is written because of it.

If the idea succeeds big and it's worth making a web site, then you'll be paid for the domain plus some more for your idea.

So we going to use this thread as an experiment? If that is the case this will get interesting.

I'm going to see what people say on this thread over the next few days, then I'll make a new moderated thread and announce it on the main thread.

Thanks, I appreciate the support. It encourages me to develop more ideas and spend more time on the ideas I have. Let's see how successful this idea can become.