Bitcoin Forum
October 17, 2018, 03:35:05 PM *
News: Make sure you are not using versions of Bitcoin Core other than 0.17.0 [Torrent], 0.16.3, 0.15.2, or 0.14.3. More info.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  

Warning: Moderators do not remove likely scams. You must use your own brain: caveat emptor. Watch out for Ponzi schemes. Do not invest more than you can afford to lose.

Pages: « 1 2 [3]  All
  Print  
Author Topic: All you idiots that "invested" in PMBs:  (Read 3298 times)
MPOE-PR
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 756
Merit: 500



View Profile
June 25, 2013, 06:31:45 PM
 #41

I was not using it as a joke, I was giving an example of an exchange which has managed to keep the mining crap out. I don't know why you have such hatred towards MP, he seems to be making decent money without your approval. Now, if only we could get him to embrace the balance sheet to go with the profit/loss statements we could all be happy.

It's out now.  That wasn't always the case though.

Gigamining was on MPEx as a PT.  MP declared it of zero value and shut it down when GLBSE shutdown, leaving those holding PT shares in a lurch because he did not (AFAIK, been a while since I re-read the thread) lay claim to the associated Gigamining shares post-shutdown.

Not the case. Gigavps made a contract, PT was constructed as "will pass along all benefits, will not do any maintenance".

Gigavps unilaterally repudiated his contract, created new contract. PT shares were thus rendered worthless by gigavps. Arguably "not his fault" or "Nefario's fault" or what have you, but MP doesn't enter into it either way you unravel it.

My Credentials  | THE BTC Stock Exchange | I have my very own anthology! | Use bitcointa.lk, it's like this one but better.
1539790505
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1539790505

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1539790505
Reply with quote  #2

1539790505
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1539790505
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1539790505

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1539790505
Reply with quote  #2

1539790505
Report to moderator
1539790505
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1539790505

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1539790505
Reply with quote  #2

1539790505
Report to moderator
1539790505
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1539790505

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1539790505
Reply with quote  #2

1539790505
Report to moderator
ciuciu
Donator
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 588
Merit: 500


View Profile
June 25, 2013, 06:45:06 PM
 #42

I was not using it as a joke, I was giving an example of an exchange which has managed to keep the mining crap out. I don't know why you have such hatred towards MP, he seems to be making decent money without your approval. Now, if only we could get him to embrace the balance sheet to go with the profit/loss statements we could all be happy.

It's out now.  That wasn't always the case though.

Gigamining was on MPEx as a PT.  MP declared it of zero value and shut it down when GLBSE shutdown, leaving those holding PT shares in a lurch because he did not (AFAIK, been a while since I re-read the thread) lay claim to the associated Gigamining shares post-shutdown.

Not the case. Gigavps made a contract, PT was constructed as "will pass along all benefits, will not do any maintenance".

Gigavps unilaterally repudiated his contract, created new contract. PT shares were thus rendered worthless by gigavps. Arguably "not his fault" or "Nefario's fault" or what have you, but MP doesn't enter into it either way you unravel it.

Yeah, you laundered the shares with the help of your scammy IRC friends. Now go lose some more BTC with your MPOE shitty bonds.

EskimoBob
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 910
Merit: 1000


Quality Printing Services by Federal Reserve Bank


View Profile
June 25, 2013, 07:05:15 PM
 #43

Lets not forget that joke of a option bot Mr DipShit was running, that lost tens of thousands (17K?) of BTC.
I am 100% sure Popescu just ripped of his "clients" and pocketed the coin, blaming bots algorithm or what ever the excuse was at that time.
No wonder this scammer hides behind a skirt of his "PR" scank.

While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head.
BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
burnside
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1064
Merit: 1000



View Profile WWW
June 26, 2013, 12:16:25 AM
 #44

I was not using it as a joke, I was giving an example of an exchange which has managed to keep the mining crap out. I don't know why you have such hatred towards MP, he seems to be making decent money without your approval. Now, if only we could get him to embrace the balance sheet to go with the profit/loss statements we could all be happy.

It's out now.  That wasn't always the case though.

Gigamining was on MPEx as a PT.  MP declared it of zero value and shut it down when GLBSE shutdown, leaving those holding PT shares in a lurch because he did not (AFAIK, been a while since I re-read the thread) lay claim to the associated Gigamining shares post-shutdown.

Not the case. Gigavps made a contract, PT was constructed as "will pass along all benefits, will not do any maintenance".

Gigavps unilaterally repudiated his contract, created new contract. PT shares were thus rendered worthless by gigavps. Arguably "not his fault" or "Nefario's fault" or what have you, but MP doesn't enter into it either way you unravel it.

The key point was that MP has had his own PMB fun.  How he shut it down was of somewhat secondary importance.

I'm not a Coinbase fan -- I placed a buy order, they took the funds out of my bank account immediately. Within a week the price had gone up 10% and on the day I was to receive my Bitcoins they canceled the buy and closed my account.
Peter Lambert
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 756
Merit: 500

It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye


View Profile
June 26, 2013, 01:36:49 AM
 #45

I was not using it as a joke, I was giving an example of an exchange which has managed to keep the mining crap out. I don't know why you have such hatred towards MP, he seems to be making decent money without your approval. Now, if only we could get him to embrace the balance sheet to go with the profit/loss statements we could all be happy.

It's out now.  That wasn't always the case though.

Gigamining was on MPEx as a PT.  MP declared it of zero value and shut it down when GLBSE shutdown, leaving those holding PT shares in a lurch because he did not (AFAIK, been a while since I re-read the thread) lay claim to the associated Gigamining shares post-shutdown.

Not the case. Gigavps made a contract, PT was constructed as "will pass along all benefits, will not do any maintenance".

Gigavps unilaterally repudiated his contract, created new contract. PT shares were thus rendered worthless by gigavps. Arguably "not his fault" or "Nefario's fault" or what have you, but MP doesn't enter into it either way you unravel it.

The key point was that MP has had his own PMB fun.  How he shut it down was of somewhat secondary importance.

I concede the point, I had forgotten that there used to be a PMB on the MPEx. Nevertheless, it is possible to have a bitcoin stock exchange without PMBs.

Use CoinBR to trade bitcoin stocks: CoinBR.com

The best place for betting with bitcoin: BitBet.us
Korbman
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1064
Merit: 1000



View Profile
June 26, 2013, 02:43:50 AM
 #46

Lets say we have 2 guys. A and B. A wants to buy a bike so he can deliver newspapers. He ask you (B) for a loan. Once more, bond is a loan and principal investment must be returned.
 
He tells you:
1) Give me a loan but I have no obligation to pay you back what you gave me or in other words - I will stretch this loan out forever and will not guarantee you get back you money. I'll try to do my best so it won't happen.

2) I will make weekly (or what ever) payments but those payments are not fixed and can float up or down, depending how many papers I managed to deliver riding this bike. Bike I bought with your money. BTW. if I say home and sleep, you get nothing.

3) The road is one way and endless.  It's mostly up the hill pedaling. Higher I get, slower I move and less papers deliver. BTW, there will be fewer and fewer houses too. One more thing... I'll deduct the cost of sandwiches and water from the earnings and keep some of the earned coin for my self.

Now, do you lend me the money to buy that bike?

PS! There will be other bikes on that road. Some have motors and "paper cannons".

An apt example, and fantastically humorous to top it off. Nice Wink


I think most people understand what they're getting into.. [...]

I can assure you that many of them don't.

The best example of this comes from my own Note fund. And these are actual Notes (Bonds with a shorter maturity date) and follow the same rules as the securities you'd find in non-Bitcoin markets...though more floating rate than fixed rate for both coupons and maturity.
The Par value on each Note is BTC1.0.
The monthly coupon rate starts off at 1% and eventually increases.
If you invested during the initial public offering, by the end of the repurchasing period you'd have made about BTC1.26 (26%) per Note...assuming a 15 month holding.

Yet for a number of months, people were actively buying these Notes at BTC1.35-1.45 each. If I followed the contracts to the letter (as in, pay what I owe and that's it..no increased coupons, etc) ..then these buyers will have a guaranteed loss.

Since that's the case, I can only assume that either A) these buyers are crossing their fingers and hoping for the best or B) have no idea what they're actually investing in.

And I didn't say a word while any of this went on. If people want to be dumb, then I say go for it.

CentiMine
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 34
Merit: 0


View Profile
June 26, 2013, 12:08:06 PM
 #47

...Who ever invented those nasty perpetual mining turds, was either a clueless fuck, who did not understand how bad it is for the investors or, he knew exactly! what it is and abused the nonexisting investing experience of BTC enthusiasts.


I think that honor would go to CentiMine, of the CentiMine400 stock on the GLBSE.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=8642.0

From the second post there, it appears there were others ahead of him with the scam concept.

Ok, it seems this thread got moved from "Marketplace" here. Sorry to have caused any confusion or trouble.

The original reasoning to put it there was that dishwara + SIN also have their threads regarding their mining contract sales in that other area.

What happening by that time ? ? I read over the thread ,but still can not understand what the story about it.
Dishwara was/is a indian guy who raised some funds to buy himself some GPUs to mine in his home, had problems because of heat and failing hardware and was killed off by the 30 USD price bubble back then when the few dozen BTC some people threw at him in the beginning suddenly were worth a lot more than any hardware he had.

SIN was (and ended up) very similar to the much later launched BITBOND, only with a bit less hash rate - hobbyist starting to raise funds, mines for some time and after some hardware failure moves on while claiming salaries, high expenses and whatnot. Might be even the same issuer, who knows?

CM400 was intended to be a crowdfunding of mining contracts, as at that time Vladimir was more or less one of the few people actually selling some time limited minig contracts. I bought up a mining contract myself and offered shares in it on GLBSE (back then a console-only application...). In current wordings it would NOT be a PMB and never was intended as such, rather something similar to what gigavps tries to pull off with his "TERAMINING" contracts only backed by a mining contract, not by actual hardware. As I was the main share holder (only few shares were actually sold), I also ate up the biggest loss, since that contract was bought in USD. Since then the BTC generated got quite some value back, so I'm happy - still it could have been handled better.

These kind of (time limited) contracts when priced in BTC are a bet against rising difficulty, when priced in USD are additionally also a bet against rising BTCUSD prices which is why I didn't offer a follow-up. Also as you can see when reading that thread GLBSE had quite a few issues back then plus the work for actually paying out that stuff manually (and making sure it would be always the correct amount) was quite high for the meager returns, so I decided to go back to the planning stage. I consider PMBs as dishonest, so I did never launch one, even when they were highly overpriced and could have been ponzi'd for ages, like for example BITBOND or most other PMBs out there. Usually the ones that do actual mining with actual hardware do worse than the ones that just (most likely) go down the ponzi road and just use them as cheap credit which I find ironic.

The first PMB to my knowledge would btw. be the still existing PUREMINING asset by Meni.

Edit:
Yeah, I had forgotten exactly who was doing what. Dishwara was more of a mining company, I think, SIN was a "perpetual" mining bond, and CM400 was a mining bond with a limited lifetime. CM400 payed much less back than was originally invested. SIN the operator took off with everybodies money, Dishwara ran into trouble of some sort with the mining, but he bought back the outstanding shares eventually.
CM400 payed out exactly as much as was originally promised. I know in hindsight it was a bad investment (as were all mining contracts when that bubble hit hard and difficulty skyrocketed), I dare to claim however that I have scammed nobody and also I did even give a partial refund when it got evident that this would be operating at a net loss to limit my share holder's losses.
Peter Lambert
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 756
Merit: 500

It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye


View Profile
June 26, 2013, 02:31:16 PM
 #48

Yeah, I had forgotten exactly who was doing what. Dishwara was more of a mining company, I think, SIN was a "perpetual" mining bond, and CM400 was a mining bond with a limited lifetime. CM400 payed much less back than was originally invested. SIN the operator took off with everybodies money, Dishwara ran into trouble of some sort with the mining, but he bought back the outstanding shares eventually.
CM400 payed out exactly as much as was originally promised. I know in hindsight it was a bad investment (as were all mining contracts when that bubble hit hard and difficulty skyrocketed), I dare to claim however that I have scammed nobody and also I did even give a partial refund when it got evident that this would be operating at a net loss to limit my share holder's losses.

Right, I did not mean to say you were scamming anybody, like many of the other mining bond/company operators, I am just saying that it was not a very good investment, and most mining type investments are not good investments.

Use CoinBR to trade bitcoin stocks: CoinBR.com

The best place for betting with bitcoin: BitBet.us
Pages: « 1 2 [3]  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!