Bitcoin Forum
September 20, 2018, 05:28:26 PM *
News: ♦♦ Bitcoin Core users must update to 0.16.3 [Torrent]. More info.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: We need a user-friendly "Safe guide to sweep paper wallets"  (Read 550 times)
Kakmakr
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1414
Merit: 1125

★ ChipMixer | Bitcoin mixing service ★


View Profile
November 17, 2017, 07:42:41 AM
 #1

Can someone compile a "Safe guide to sweep paper wallets" for the different new services that are out there and rate the safest option to do this and combine this with the extraction of forked coins to split BTC from these coins.

We have seen a significant increase in people transferring coins to wrong addresses and people losing coins when they split these coins. There are also a increase in scam wallet providers and spoof sites, because these people know that there are a lot of confusion about this.

How can we help these people to make this process less stressful and more secure? 

 

1537464506
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1537464506

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1537464506
Reply with quote  #2

1537464506
Report to moderator
1537464506
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1537464506

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1537464506
Reply with quote  #2

1537464506
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1537464506
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1537464506

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1537464506
Reply with quote  #2

1537464506
Report to moderator
HCP
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 728
Merit: 923

<insert witty quote here>


View Profile
November 17, 2017, 07:55:11 AM
 #2

There is a "Truism" that states:
'Make something fool-proof... and they'll just invent better fools' Roll Eyes

It doesn't matter how many warnings people put up, or how simple you make something... someone will always find a way to screw it up... that's just human nature. Undecided

And you won't be able to stop the tide of scammers, hackers and thieves... wherever there is a dollar to be made... someone will always find a way to make it... that's just human nature. Undecided

There is another saying that says "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink"... some people just don't want to take the time to read and learn, they just want their #freeMoney as quick as possible so they can move on to the next "ShitCoin"™ fork... Roll Eyes

Spendulus
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2002
Merit: 1047



View Profile
November 17, 2017, 11:22:51 AM
 #3

There is a "Truism" that states:
'Make something fool-proof... and they'll just invent better fools' Roll Eyes

It doesn't matter how many warnings people put up, or how simple you make something... someone will always find a way to screw it up... that's just human nature. Undecided

And you won't be able to stop the tide of scammers, hackers and thieves... wherever there is a dollar to be made... someone will always find a way to make it... that's just human nature. Undecided

There is another saying that says "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink"... some people just don't want to take the time to read and learn, they just want their #freeMoney as quick as possible so they can move on to the next "ShitCoin"™ fork... Roll Eyes
okay, but seatbelts exist for a reason.
LoyceV
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246
Merit: 1961


Let's make Bitcointalk great again!


View Profile WWW
November 17, 2017, 12:15:51 PM
 #4

Can someone compile a "Safe guide to sweep paper wallets" for the different new services that are out there and rate the safest option to do this and combine this with the extraction of forked coins to split BTC from these coins.
I could give this a start, just as I've been thinking about a FAQ for "I sent my coins to the wrong chain", but there are too many permutations to make a complete list:
  • dozens of different wallets
  • many chains (Bitcoin, Bitcoin Cash, Bitcoin Gold, BitCore and probably many more in the future
This easily gives more than a hundred combinations already, which is too much to cover in one thread.

In general I prefer to move the most trusted and most valuable coins first:
1. Bitcoin (wait for confirmations before continuing to step 2!)
2. Bitcoin Cash
3. Bitcoin Gold
4. BitCore (not a fork but an airdrop to existing Bitcoin addresses)
5. Whatever they fork next week

And of course take safety precautions:
1. Be paranoid
2. Don't install untrusted software on any computer you'll use again after that
3. Tripple-check to be sure the address you're sending to is on the correct chain

I've recently installed Coinomi on my phone. Although I haven't tested it yet, it seems to be one wallet that can handle all forks until now. This might be an easy solution to split coins.

buwaytress
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 742
Merit: 683


I bit, therefore I am


View Profile
November 17, 2017, 12:23:59 PM
 #5

I've been thinking a lot about Bitcoin and how even someone with perhaps moderate IT abilities like myself continues to face some issues when following guides and step-by-step instructions. A lot of my knowledge on using it now came with several mistakes, a lot of frustrations, but I haven't forgotten how intimidating it can be to learn to use Bitcoin properly. Yes, a lot of the questions asked here are indicative of laziness - but language is another big problem with most of the useful guides in technical English.

The fact remains (to me) that Bitcoin has a steep learning curve, not very simple to learn, and extremely difficult to master. But I think most of us will never need to learn more than the basics (though what is basic can be arguable). I know people with a lot of coins who simply refuse to believe that maintaining their own private keys or controlling how their transactions are spent can be safer than just relying on an app that simplifies everything. I see their point, in their situation.

HCP's truism stands true. I think "the community" is doing enough, is doing what it can. But you can't create fool proof guides. If today, fraud and scams can still happen with banking tools centuries old, we should expect that it can happen at least with equal regularity with a new tech like Bitcoin.

HCP
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 728
Merit: 923

<insert witty quote here>


View Profile
November 17, 2017, 06:46:18 PM
 #6

okay, but seatbelts exist for a reason.
Yes, they do... And how many people die each year from not wearing seat belts?

Which, sadly, proves my point... Roll Eyes Undecided

Kakmakr
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1414
Merit: 1125

★ ChipMixer | Bitcoin mixing service ★


View Profile
November 20, 2017, 06:05:47 AM
 #7

Ok, so we had some smart ass comments about seatbelts and what not, but nobody willing to step forward to assist people with this problem. I guess we have to deal with the negative after affects then, when these people lose their money, because they do not know how to deal with this.

The idea behind this is to be preventative and also the sharing of experiences with this technical matter. Why should people lose money, if other people already done this exercise and be in a position to help.

~ Tell people what services you used.
~ Share your experience {was it difficult or not}
~ What should they watch out for? {scam/spoof sites} 

You do not have to give detailed manuals, if you are too lazy to help. ^hmmmmm^

HCP
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 728
Merit: 923

<insert witty quote here>


View Profile
November 20, 2017, 07:47:54 AM
 #8

I'm not sure why you need any "services" for sweeping a paper wallet? Huh

At the end of the day, a paper wallet is just a "private key" written or printed on a piece of paper (along with the address obviously)... almost every popular wallet allows for either importing or sweeping of private keys... And besides, there are plenty of guides and information on how to sweep paper wallets... and I bet YouTube has more than a few videos on how to do it...

As an example, Electrum makes it about as easy as it gets:

Wallet -> Private Keys -> Sweep

- Enter the address you want to send to (by default it picks one from the current wallet automatically, BUT it can be ANY Bitcoin address)
- Enter the private key from paper wallet (or anywhere else for that matter)
- Click next
- Double check the transaction looks OK
- Click Broadcast

For the other "forks coins", like BCH and BTG just sweep the private key repeatedly using the "ForkCoin"™ wallets of your choice...


This isn't rocket surgery or brain science. Tongue

LoyceV
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246
Merit: 1961


Let's make Bitcointalk great again!


View Profile WWW
November 20, 2017, 09:44:18 AM
 #9

The idea behind this is to be preventative and also the sharing of experiences with this technical matter. Why should people lose money, if other people already done this exercise and be in a position to help.
As long as they don't read the information, it won't help them. If someone just imports his key on a random website without knowing what he's doing, no amount of HOWTOs is going to stop him.

I'm not sure why you need any "services" for sweeping a paper wallet? Huh
~
This isn't rocket surgery or brain science. Tongue
I know that and you know that. But many people lose Bitcoins when they try to handle private keys.

I've recently installed Iconomi, it can handle all different Bitcoin forks (and BitCore). You have to sweep the private key separately on each chain. If they would automate that, so that one sweep securely splits all different coins, it could be a very convenient wallet to use for inexperenced users.

Kakmakr
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1414
Merit: 1125

★ ChipMixer | Bitcoin mixing service ★


View Profile
November 21, 2017, 12:22:44 PM
 #10

The idea behind this is to be preventative and also the sharing of experiences with this technical matter. Why should people lose money, if other people already done this exercise and be in a position to help.
As long as they don't read the information, it won't help them. If someone just imports his key on a random website without knowing what he's doing, no amount of HOWTOs is going to stop him.

I'm not sure why you need any "services" for sweeping a paper wallet? Huh
~
This isn't rocket surgery or brain science. Tongue
I know that and you know that. But many people lose Bitcoins when they try to handle private keys.

I've recently installed Iconomi, it can handle all different Bitcoin forks (and BitCore). You have to sweep the private key separately on each chain. If they would automate that, so that one sweep securely splits all different coins, it could be a very convenient wallet to use for inexperenced users.

This is exactly the type of response that might be helpful to others. You only have to look at threads like this :

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2433700.0 and this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2432574.0 to see that there are a problem and a lot of confusion.

Let's share some knowledge and reduce the clutter of threads that has to deal with this on an individual basis. A How to guide will make things much easier. ^smile^

jacobmayes94
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 364
Merit: 250



View Profile
November 21, 2017, 01:11:21 PM
 #11

I would say the safest way to sweep them would be to use a trusted android wallet if online, or do offline transaction signing on an air gapped PC, as android if unrooted is much less likely to be compromised than a PC running windows thats online.

I know there is a lot of stigma on android wallets like coinomi, but if you have safely backed up the seed, its much less likely to be compromised than a PC running windows, by far.

Once swept, move the funds to a hardware wallet.
cupronickel
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 64
Merit: 10


View Profile
November 21, 2017, 01:32:06 PM
 #12

I'm not sure why you need any "services" for sweeping a paper wallet? Huh

At the end of the day, a paper wallet is just a "private key" written or printed on a piece of paper (along with the address obviously)... almost every popular wallet allows for either importing or sweeping of private keys... And besides, there are plenty of guides and information on how to sweep paper wallets... and I bet YouTube has more than a few videos on how to do it...

As an example, Electrum makes it about as easy as it gets:

Wallet -> Private Keys -> Sweep

- Enter the address you want to send to (by default it picks one from the current wallet automatically, BUT it can be ANY Bitcoin address)
- Enter the private key from paper wallet (or anywhere else for that matter)
- Click next
- Double check the transaction looks OK
- Click Broadcast

For the other "forks coins", like BCH and BTG just sweep the private key repeatedly using the "ForkCoin"™ wallets of your choice...


This isn't rocket surgery or brain science. Tongue


You've missed something crucial in your example.

Always move coins to a new wallet and only sweep the old empty wallet. Otherwise you expose your private key to your existing coins which is very dangerous.

Secondly, Electrum won't capture BTG. It isn't as easy as you describe.

Vires in Numeris
HCP
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 728
Merit: 923

<insert witty quote here>


View Profile
November 21, 2017, 09:49:58 PM
 #13

You've missed something crucial in your example.
Always move coins to a new wallet and only sweep the old empty wallet. Otherwise you expose your private key to your existing coins which is very dangerous.
No... I didn't... you'll notice I said to sweep the BTC and then sweep the other coins... once you sweep, the BTC is gone from that private key. That is why sweeping is recommended over importing.


Quote
Secondly, Electrum won't capture BTG. It isn't as easy as you describe.
I never said it would... It won't "capture" BCH either... Which is why I said:
For the other "forks coins", like BCH and BTG just sweep the private key repeatedly using the "ForkCoin"™ wallets of your choice...



Kakmakr
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1414
Merit: 1125

★ ChipMixer | Bitcoin mixing service ★


View Profile
November 24, 2017, 08:00:28 AM
 #14

You've missed something crucial in your example.
Always move coins to a new wallet and only sweep the old empty wallet. Otherwise you expose your private key to your existing coins which is very dangerous.
No... I didn't... you'll notice I said to sweep the BTC and then sweep the other coins... once you sweep, the BTC is gone from that private key. That is why sweeping is recommended over importing.


Quote
Secondly, Electrum won't capture BTG. It isn't as easy as you describe.
I never said it would... It won't "capture" BCH either... Which is why I said:
For the other "forks coins", like BCH and BTG just sweep the private key repeatedly using the "ForkCoin"™ wallets of your choice...




The ForkCoin wallet of choice might be a bit tricky. There are good wallets and bad wallets and fake spoof sites that pretends to be legit wallets. <Once you sweep your private key, they have it and you have no coins>

This is why people should identify the safe wallets <tried & tested> and share their information with other people on this forum. A lot of developers <technical people> could have screened the code of these wallet providers to see if they contained any nasty surprises. ^smile^

Sharing is caring  ^hmmmmm^

Edit : Not even the original Github URL is safe! https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2466999.new#new

Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!