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Author Topic: Bitcoin does not have limited supply  (Read 1154 times)
Oulay
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November 19, 2017, 09:18:06 PM
 #61


And this means in reality that the supply of crypto currency is growing exponentially and without limits

It seems that you are the parrot here...
You can say that cryptocurrencies are unlimited in their supply but "BITCOIN" itself is limited. Your title says "Bitcoin does not have limited supply" and that's totally utterly wrong. End of story.

My list of threads giving away merits: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3048258.0
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November 19, 2017, 09:23:27 PM
 #62

The argument is again and again that the value of Bitcoin will increase because supply is limited to 21 million. But this is quite simply wrong. Every time Bitcoin is forked that is in real terms an expansion of the Bitcoin currency beyond 21 million. To some degree the same is true of alternative crypto currencies which will flood the market. There is already more than 1000 cryptocurrencues ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cryptocurrencies )

I consider the forks of Bitcoin to be altcoins. Bitcoin has a limited supply but there is no limit to the altcoins that can be created so the supply of those coins is unlimited. However, many altcoins will fail and those coins will be worthless. Only a few good cryptocurrencies will be able to survive more than a few years because the competition is so great. Even many of the Bitcoin forks will fail and be worthless at some point.

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November 19, 2017, 09:27:46 PM
 #63


And this means in reality that the supply of crypto currency is growing exponentially and without limits

It seems that you are the parrot here...
You can say that cryptocurrencies are unlimited in their supply but "BITCOIN" itself is limited. Your title says "Bitcoin does not have limited supply" and that's totally utterly wrong. End of story.


Agree that Bitcoin itself is limited. The other coins have their own supply.
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November 19, 2017, 09:37:13 PM
 #64

Well the title of the thread can be mischievous.
Bitcoin ,the only crypto currency with that exact name, does have a limited supply of 21 million coins only that can't be increased or decreased in any possible way.

You're saying that we can create an unlimited number of hard-forks which makes it theoretically not limited to that number.
Well hard forks are kinda given some attention these days only because Bitcoin has a few issues that actually need to be solved.

But actually once these problems are solved, any new hard-forked coins that arise will have no value since they won't solve or add anything new. So basically they will have no community supporting them which means = total failure.

Quote
The argument is again and again that the value of Bitcoin will increase because supply is limited to 21 million.

According to what you just said, the price of btc won't go up since it's actually not limited and new coins are emerging from it.
Well then please explain to me how the increase of price from less than $4000 to $8000+ is valid ALTHOUGH two hard forks happened during this time frame.

I guess you got the point. Whatever they try to do, BTC is and will remain the mainstream coin.
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November 19, 2017, 09:38:57 PM
 #65

This is a controversial issue.

It is true that 'real' Bitcoin has and forever will have a limited supply of 21 millions coins. But it's also true that all this forked versions, as well as altcoins, tokens, etc. are flooding the market creating inflation.
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November 19, 2017, 09:44:26 PM
 #66

As I see most of people here disagree with op. I think he/she does know that Bitcoin supply is limited to 21m but he/she is looking at the matter from different point of view. He/she is talking about the flow of money into forked or altcoins. So people can use new coins for their transactions and it cause the total supply not to be fixed.

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November 19, 2017, 09:46:19 PM
 #67

I can understand this but Bitcoin will still have his own limit at 21Millions coins!  So Bitcoin is pushing his limit but only vitually.
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November 19, 2017, 10:22:21 PM
 #68

The argument is again and again that the value of Bitcoin will increase because supply is limited to 21 million. But this is quite simply wrong. Every time Bitcoin is forked that is in real terms an expansion of the Bitcoin currency beyond 21 million.

Most altcoins are just forks of Bitcoin anyway. Why is your argument relevant now in 2017, when it applied just the same to Litecoin in 2011?

By consensus rules, your contention is false. Forks of bitcoin are specifically not Bitcoin. The proof is in the pudding: look at the price. A single bitcoin will cost you over $8000 today. A litecoin costs $71 today. Clearly, the market sees a difference between [21 million BTC] and [105 million BTC+LTC].

To some degree the same is true of alternative crypto currencies which will flood the market. There is already more than 1000 cryptocurrencues ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cryptocurrencies)

Do altcoins/tokens (including these recent altcoins that take the "Bitcoin" name) dilute Bitcoin's investment potential? Surely they do! Some people are buying Bcash or Litecoin instead of Bitcoin. But that's a different matter entirely. That has nothing to do with the supply of Bitcoin.

Nobody ever said that BTC gets a monopoly on cryptocurrency investment. This is a market, and BTC simply has the best fundamentals and strongest brand. This could change in time, but I don't expect it to.

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November 19, 2017, 11:47:04 PM
 #69

This is a controversial issue.

It is true that 'real' Bitcoin has and forever will have a limited supply of 21 millions coins. But it's also true that all this forked versions, as well as altcoins, tokens, etc. are flooding the market creating inflation.

Had bitcoin not been open source most iof these forks and shitcoins wouldn't have come flooding the markets like vampires looking for prey. I think there are many coders out there that just fancy releasing their won coins to serve a purpose at any particular point in time just like Hilary coin and Trump coin came up last year during the US elections. They just twerk a few lines of code and pooh, a shitcoin is born



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November 20, 2017, 08:21:41 AM
 #70



You can create Bitcoin2 and say that this is the same thing as Bitcoin, but will people be buying your Bitcoin2 at $7,000+ per coin? I seriously doubt that.

No they won't - and that is also why the realization will sink in that there is also no need to buy Bitcoin at those levels at all, and the party will come to an end

We've seen similar predictions many times here on this forum: "The end of Bitcoin", "The bulb will burst soon", "Will Bitcoin last long?" etc, etc.

Why do you think there is no need to buy Bitcoin at today's price when demand is only rising and hence the price of BTC in the future will be most likely higher than it is now? No one knows the "real value" of anything, it's the demand is what the key factor for the price we pay for things.

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November 20, 2017, 08:22:57 AM
 #71

No one knows the "real value" of anything, it's the demand is what the key factor for the price we pay for things.

And in terms of demand, here is a detailed step-by-step guide to how the events will unfold for Bitcoin (and the other cryptos):

- Bitcoin will start dropping in value sharply
- Bitcoin promoters and investors will say that this has happened many times before
- In this forum especially all will be saying to buy because it is cheap, and many will say to hodl
- price drops further, and all promoters will keep saying we have seen this before and it is a good time to buy and hodl
- price drops further, and waiting transactions are now mounting rapidly because despite the cries of "hodl!" quite a few people want to get out. But the way Bitcoin works prevents all from exiting when they want to.
- The price to get your transactions through becomes very high, in reality meaning only people with large holdings of Bitcoin can afford to get out. And they do because they have in many cases bought at below 1000$ and therefore they want to take their profits.
- As it becomes clear price keeps declining and it is impossible to get out, the smaller investors start to panic. It is the same as being in a large building with many people and only one small fire exit when there is a fire
- Prices now decline to a level where the miners can only make money by charging very high prices for transactions
- The high prices for transactions and the low price of Bitcoin means that no smaller investors can now get out of Bitcoin
- The price stabilizes at a very low level and it is impossible for the small investors to get out as no miners can make money any more
- Nobody want to buy into Bitcoin because of the very high transaction fees
- Game over.
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November 20, 2017, 08:25:38 AM
 #72

The argument is again and again that the value of Bitcoin will increase because supply is limited to 21 million. But this is quite simply wrong. Every time Bitcoin is forked that is in real terms an expansion of the Bitcoin currency beyond 21 million. To some degree the same is true of alternative crypto currencies which will flood the market. There is already more than 1000 cryptocurrencues ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cryptocurrencies )
Yes you  are correct. Bitcoin has only 21,000,000 supply and it is considered that if the traders already reach the supply there will be big tendency that it will be more expensive and more valuable.

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November 20, 2017, 08:47:16 AM
 #73

In terms of the amount of bitcoin users maybe the bitcoin supply is largely due to this crypto currency and many miners in different parts of the world. I think it's going to be a long time ago because it's still unpredictable and bitcoin users are increasingly growing in the world because there are so many mines that people use for bitcoin as it multiplies.

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November 20, 2017, 08:48:19 AM
 #74

I think that there's no limit to bitcoin because it's a crypto currency, because it's money for a long time maybe it's supposed to be in supply because of the number of users now you can not really count.

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November 20, 2017, 10:04:18 AM
 #75

The argument is again and again that the value of Bitcoin will increase because supply is limited to 21 million. But this is quite simply wrong. Every time Bitcoin is forked that is in real terms an expansion of the Bitcoin currency beyond 21 million. To some degree the same is true of alternative crypto currencies which will flood the market. There is already more than 1000 cryptocurrencues ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cryptocurrencies )

Th forking (or absence of it) does not effect Bitcoin's supply. At best, you can consider it as a "gift" to all bitcoin holders, which will increase the overall worth. It in no way impacts the overall supply of 21 Mn, which is set in stone.

That is precisely my point. I create "Bitcoin2" by forking. Then I create "Bitcoin3" and so on and so on. In reality what I am doing is issuing more Bitcoin. That I call it a different name does not change the reality.

BTC is not the same currency as BCH or Bitcoin Gold... they are derived from BTC. BTC has a limit of 21m. BCH and BCG have their own limits

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November 20, 2017, 10:23:56 AM
 #76

The argument is again and again that the value of Bitcoin will increase because supply is limited to 21 million. But this is quite simply wrong. Every time Bitcoin is forked that is in real terms an expansion of the Bitcoin currency beyond 21 million. To some degree the same is true of alternative crypto currencies which will flood the market. There is already more than 1000 cryptocurrencues ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cryptocurrencies )

Th forking (or absence of it) does not effect Bitcoin's supply. At best, you can consider it as a "gift" to all bitcoin holders, which will increase the overall worth. It in no way impacts the overall supply of 21 Mn, which is set in stone.

That is precisely my point. I create "Bitcoin2" by forking. Then I create "Bitcoin3" and so on and so on. In reality what I am doing is issuing more Bitcoin. That I call it a different name does not change the reality.

BTC is not the same currency as BCH or Bitcoin Gold... they are derived from BTC. BTC has a limit of 21m. BCH and BCG have their own limits

Do you understand the nature of fungible assets?
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November 20, 2017, 10:32:06 AM
 #77

That is precisely my point. I create "Bitcoin2" by forking. Then I create "Bitcoin3" and so on and so on. In reality what I am doing is issuing more Bitcoin. That I call it a different name does not change the reality.

BTC is not the same currency as BCH or Bitcoin Gold... they are derived from BTC. BTC has a limit of 21m. BCH and BCG have their own limits

Do you understand the nature of fungible assets?

BTC and BCH aren't fungible with regard to one another. That's why they have different values.

Clearly, there is a steep learning curve in cryptocurrencies. Anyone buying into Bcash based on fundamentals (or because they believe that BTC=BCH) is in for a world of hurt once they realize that the rest of the world isn't buying into Bitmain and Roger Ver's bullshit. Bcash supporters are depending on greater fools right now that are buying into your logic, and maybe that can sustain their pump-and-dump scheme for a while.

At some point, even the newbies will start to realize that copying Bitcoin's UTXO set =/= issuing new BTC. Have you noticed how nobody is even using Bcash or Bgold?
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November 20, 2017, 10:56:53 AM
 #78

That is precisely my point. I create "Bitcoin2" by forking. Then I create "Bitcoin3" and so on and so on. In reality what I am doing is issuing more Bitcoin. That I call it a different name does not change the reality.

BTC is not the same currency as BCH or Bitcoin Gold... they are derived from BTC. BTC has a limit of 21m. BCH and BCG have their own limits

Do you understand the nature of fungible assets?

BTC and BCH aren't fungible with regard to one another. That's why they have different values.

Clearly, there is a steep learning curve in cryptocurrencies. Anyone buying into Bcash based on fundamentals (or because they believe that BTC=BCH) is in for a world of hurt once they realize that the rest of the world isn't buying into Bitmain and Roger Ver's bullshit. Bcash supporters are depending on greater fools right now that are buying into your logic, and maybe that can sustain their pump-and-dump scheme for a while.

At some point, even the newbies will start to realize that copying Bitcoin's UTXO set =/= issuing new BTC. Have you noticed how nobody is even using Bcash or Bgold?

USD also does not equal Indian Rupees, but they are still fungible. You don't get it.
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November 21, 2017, 01:54:49 PM
 #79

No one knows the "real value" of anything, it's the demand is what the key factor for the price we pay for things.

And in terms of demand, here is a detailed step-by-step guide to how the events will unfold for Bitcoin (and the other cryptos):

- Bitcoin will start dropping in value sharply
- Bitcoin promoters and investors will say that this has happened many times before
- In this forum especially all will be saying to buy because it is cheap, and many will say to hodl
- price drops further, and all promoters will keep saying we have seen this before and it is a good time to buy and hodl
- price drops further, and waiting transactions are now mounting rapidly because despite the cries of "hodl!" quite a few people want to get out. But the way Bitcoin works prevents all from exiting when they want to.
- The price to get your transactions through becomes very high, in reality meaning only people with large holdings of Bitcoin can afford to get out. And they do because they have in many cases bought at below 1000$ and therefore they want to take their profits.
- As it becomes clear price keeps declining and it is impossible to get out, the smaller investors start to panic. It is the same as being in a large building with many people and only one small fire exit when there is a fire
- Prices now decline to a level where the miners can only make money by charging very high prices for transactions
- The high prices for transactions and the low price of Bitcoin means that no smaller investors can now get out of Bitcoin
- The price stabilizes at a very low level and it is impossible for the small investors to get out as no miners can make money any more
- Nobody want to buy into Bitcoin because of the very high transaction fees
- Game over.

All what you said may happen (or may not happen) only after the first thing in your list happens, namely " Bitcoin will start dropping in value sharply".
What do you mean by that? How much should Bitcoin lose in 24 hours, in your opinion, to be in this situation? Or did you mean this will be happening during a month or two?

And the main question. What makes you think that  demand will go down in the future?

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Icaxx
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November 21, 2017, 02:09:57 PM
 #80


Th forking (or absence of it) does not effect Bitcoin's supply. At best, you can consider it as a "gift" to all bitcoin holders, which will increase the overall worth. It in no way impacts the overall supply of 21 Mn, which is set in stone.

Yes, forking is not mean to increase the total supply but just maintenance for bitcoin like make transaction quicker for example.
Bitcoin is set only for 21 million coin and no more.
May i know what it mean bitcoin supply is set in stone? Does it mean it not possible to break it?
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