Miners are your new slave masters

[freightjoe]

When you put your money in cryptocurrencies, the miners will control your life.

If the miners decide to switch to another altcoin you cannot sell any of your coins - no matter which coin it is, even Bitcoin. If they reduce their efforts prices to transfer becomes extremely high. If you have a lot of your money in cryptocurrencies, the miners will become your new slave masters

[Sachinist]

You're not wrong but this is more of a problem for a centralized mining mob like the one running Bcash.

The intention was never to have large-scale mining farms to control majority of the hashrate. Irony is if centralization leads to crypto bubble bursting, nobody stands to gain including the miners. It's not in any miner's interest to corner the market.

[freightjoe]

You're not wrong but this is more of a problem for a centralized mining mob like the one running Bcash.

The intention was never to have large-scale mining farms to control majority of the hashrate. Irony is if centralization leads to crypto bubble bursting, nobody stands to gain including the miners. It's not in any miner's interest to corner the market.

It is always in a supplier's interest to corner the market and become a monopoly if they can

[1NV3ST0NM3]

When you put your money in cryptocurrencies, the miners will control your life.

If the miners decide to switch to another altcoin you cannot sell any of your coins - no matter which coin it is, even Bitcoin. If they reduce their efforts prices to transfer becomes extremely high. If you have a lot of your money in cryptocurrencies, the miners will become your new slave masters

Yes I think the recent changes have bitcoin much more centralized they are actually eliminating its very prior motive of decentralization. Every fork every change is being done on the basis of miner's support. Segwit2x which was in interest of common people was cancelled because it reduced miner's fees. sarcastically bitcoin saying the currency which is aiming at a decentralized world is itself being centralized.

[Welsh]

You're not wrong but this is more of a problem for a centralized mining mob like the one running Bcash.

The intention was never to have large-scale mining farms to control majority of the hashrate. Irony is if centralization leads to crypto bubble bursting, nobody stands to gain including the miners. It's not in any miner's interest to corner the market.

That's going by the assumption that the miners are invested in Bitcoin themselves and believe in the technology, if a large corporation was against Bitcoin and had enough reason for an investment towards gaining the majority of the hashrate, then there could be problems.

[1Referee]

It is always in a supplier's interest to corner the market and become a monopoly if they can

That's basically what's happening now that the Jihan cartel is toying around with Bitcoin for their own gain. It has gone even so far that the average block generation time has gone up significantly to 15 minutes per block, while it should be closer to the 10 minute mark on average. Currently the difficulty indicates a decline of around 25%, but once the difficulty adjustment comes near, it will be 'just' a decline of 5-10%, while after the difficulty adjustment, they'll let it fall to once agian show a +20% decline. It's a disgusting practice.

[freightjoe]

You're not wrong but this is more of a problem for a centralized mining mob like the one running Bcash.

The intention was never to have large-scale mining farms to control majority of the hashrate. Irony is if centralization leads to crypto bubble bursting, nobody stands to gain including the miners. It's not in any miner's interest to corner the market.

I may indeed not have been the intention. But is is nonetheless the result. We are rapidly getting to the point where it will in reality become China which controls mining - and then China will in reality be controlling the crypto currencies including Bitcoin

[John Langut]

Miners getting too powerful is one of the arguments in favor of proof-of-stake. Although that has its own share of problems. What would Bitcoin look like if it switched from proof-of-work to proof-of-stake?

[alani123]

Miners are everyone (in theory). If profit seeking miners abandon bitcoin, then anyone could bring up mining machines to keep up the transactions confirming to be included in the blockchain. This is the case with several cryptocurrencies that are not profitable to mine. People stay in the blockchain because they believe in the currency's potential. Not just driven by profit. You can actually buy old/inefficient mining equipment for very cheap.

[aardvark15]

When you put your money in cryptocurrencies, the miners will control your life.

If the miners decide to switch to another altcoin you cannot sell any of your coins - no matter which coin it is, even Bitcoin. If they reduce their efforts prices to transfer becomes extremely high. If you have a lot of your money in cryptocurrencies, the miners will become your new slave masters

All the more reason to stick with the major coins that are more likely to last a long time. As long as Bitcoin is a top coin with a large market cap, there will be miners. The fees might be high, but the miners are going to make their profit.

I think the coins that we need to worry about are the ones that have low market cap and are not profitable for miners. Many of those will not survive.

[freightjoe]

All the more reason to stick with the major coins that are more likely to last a long time. As long as Bitcoin is a top coin with a large market cap, there will be miners. The fees might be high, but the miners are going to make their profit.

But that is the point. If the giant mining farms in China wants to, they can put a stranglehold on transactions to the point where you are effectively unable to sell/transfer your Bitcoin unless you give them a huge part of your money.

Even more dangerous is that with control comes the ability to favor their own transactions, much like the illegal practice of front-running in stock markets.

[John Langut]

That sounds like a fundamental problem that could come to haunt Bitcoin evenutally. Is it possible to prevent front-running by adapting the Bitcoin code?

[Sachinist]

Proof of stake will work if it wasn't based on how much you stake. Based on amount staked, it's actually worse than PoW. A cap on maximum stake maybe? We'll come up with a system which is egalitarian without giving any individual or a group of individuals an advantage over others. I'd say within the next 5 years if not sooner.

[freightjoe]

That sounds like a fundamental problem that could come to haunt Bitcoin evenutally. Is it possible to prevent front-running by adapting the Bitcoin code?

I don't see how. And this is exactly why regulated exchanges are regulated. Centuries of experience shows that without oversight/regulation then there will always be someone using underhanded tactics to cheat. Hence this is a deeply fundamental problem for a Bitcoin with no centralized oversight/government

[Sachinist]

You're not wrong but this is more of a problem for a centralized mining mob like the one running Bcash.

The intention was never to have large-scale mining farms to control majority of the hashrate. Irony is if centralization leads to crypto bubble bursting, nobody stands to gain including the miners. It's not in any miner's interest to corner the market.

That's going by the assumption that the miners are invested in Bitcoin themselves and believe in the technology, if a large corporation was against Bitcoin and had enough reason for an investment towards gaining the majority of the hashrate, then there could be problems.

Unless it's amazon, the cost of cornering the market would be prohibitive for anyone intending to just destroy or stall bitcoin.

[freightjoe]

You're not wrong but this is more of a problem for a centralized mining mob like the one running Bcash.

The intention was never to have large-scale mining farms to control majority of the hashrate. Irony is if centralization leads to crypto bubble bursting, nobody stands to gain including the miners. It's not in any miner's interest to corner the market.

That's going by the assumption that the miners are invested in Bitcoin themselves and believe in the technology, if a large corporation was against Bitcoin and had enough reason for an investment towards gaining the majority of the hashrate, then there could be problems.

Unless it's amazon, the cost of cornering the market would be prohibitive for anyone intending to just destroy or stall bitcoin.

Not prohibitive for the Chinese government for example

[Sachinist]

That sounds like a fundamental problem that could come to haunt Bitcoin evenutally. Is it possible to prevent front-running by adapting the Bitcoin code?

I don't see how. And this is exactly why regulated exchanges are regulated. Centuries of experience shows that without oversight/regulation then there will always be someone using underhanded tactics to cheat. Hence this is a deeply fundamental problem for a Bitcoin with no centralized oversight/government

It's either have someone oversee and overseer cheat themselves or have bad actors within community cheat.

rock and a hard place

[freightjoe]

That sounds like a fundamental problem that could come to haunt Bitcoin evenutally. Is it possible to prevent front-running by adapting the Bitcoin code?

I don't see how. And this is exactly why regulated exchanges are regulated. Centuries of experience shows that without oversight/regulation then there will always be someone using underhanded tactics to cheat. Hence this is a deeply fundamental problem for a Bitcoin with no centralized oversight/government

It's either have someone oversee and overseer cheat themselves or have bad actors within community cheat.

rock and a hard place

At the end of the day it comes down to trust and disgust. When sufficiently many people feel manipulated by the miners (or held hostage where they can't sell when they want to) they will leave the market. Trust in a decentralized vision will be replaced with disgust, and in that scenario it will effectively spell the end of Bitcoin.

[joebrook]

When you put your money in cryptocurrencies, the miners will control your life.

If the miners decide to switch to another altcoin you cannot sell any of your coins - no matter which coin it is, even Bitcoin. If they reduce their efforts prices to transfer becomes extremely high. If you have a lot of your money in cryptocurrencies, the miners will become your new slave masters

That's the absolute truth, because am not sure any of use will really spend about  $20 as transaction fee so that our transactions will be confirmed.  They are our slavery masters and whatever that they say is what goes.

[TTITA]

When you put your money in cryptocurrencies, the miners will control your life.

If the miners decide to switch to another altcoin you cannot sell any of your coins - no matter which coin it is, even Bitcoin. If they reduce their efforts prices to transfer becomes extremely high. If you have a lot of your money in cryptocurrencies, the miners will become your new slave masters

As long as bitcoins are still top in the large market, i seen there is no reason for miners to switch to another altcoins to mining and left bitcoins.
It is true that this system becomes very sucks when the miners start setting the high price for the priority of a transaction.