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Author Topic: Is a business who uses BitPay a money transmitter?  (Read 6845 times)
JohnyBigs (OP)
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June 26, 2013, 02:23:24 AM
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Under FinCen regulations a user who sells bitcoin for fiat is a MSB. Does that make a business using Bitpay fall under MSB laws? Since they are effectively having BitPay on their behalf cash out their BTC for Fiat.
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Ascension
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June 26, 2013, 04:11:48 AM
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They released a blog post on their site about this exact thing --> http://blog.bitpay.com/2013/03/how-fincen-guidelines-affect-bitpay.html
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June 26, 2013, 04:17:11 AM
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Bitpay claims to operate as a payment processor: a business that only facilitates payment by customers to a merchant for that merchant's goods and services.  Payment processors are exempt from MSB regulations at the federal level.

On that model, a merchant using Bitpay would never handle BTC, assuming they opt for payment from Bitpay via a wire transfer in USD.  The merchant in this scenario would not be an MSB either.

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JohnyBigs (OP)
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June 26, 2013, 04:51:55 AM
Last edit: June 26, 2013, 05:20:14 AM by JohnyBigs
 #4

Bitpay claims to operate as a payment processor: a business that only facilitates payment by customers to a merchant for that merchant's goods and services.  Payment processors are exempt from MSB regulations at the federal level.

On that model, a merchant using Bitpay would never handle BTC, assuming they opt for payment from Bitpay via a wire transfer in USD.  The merchant in this scenario would not be an MSB either.

Yes that makes sense that the Merchant never physically accepts the BitCoin. Wouldn't BitPay though fall under the category of exchange and therefore a MSB? BitPay says that is has contractual agreements with the Sellers. Can't it be argued that BitPay is acting on behalf of the Merchant, and therefore the merchant is actually exchanging BitCoin into Fiat?

If BitPay received Bitcoin from client and transferred said BitCoin to merchant than it's perfectly fine, but when they take that clients BitCoin and exchange it for USD, an exchange has occurred. Would they be considered a Money Service Business under FinCen guidance?

An exchanging from digital currency to fiat is occurring, the issue is who is liable for these actions occurring, it would seem that BitPay is acting on behalf of it's merchants who order it to facilitate the exchange and the merchant can be considered an MSB? It seems one or the other has to be considered an MSB as an exchange is occurring.

Also, re-reading what you wrote even if they are exempt of MSB regulations at the federal level, that necessarily does not mean that they are exempt from the State level.
JohnyBigs (OP)
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June 26, 2013, 05:09:47 AM
Last edit: June 26, 2013, 05:26:52 AM by JohnyBigs
 #5

They released a blog post on their site about this exact thing --> http://blog.bitpay.com/2013/03/how-fincen-guidelines-affect-bitpay.html

I read their blog but the points they highlighted don't mention when BitPay takes that BitCoin and exchanges it for Fiat. Let's use PayPal as the perfect example. PayPal has MSB's licenses because they can convert your local currency into another local currency therefore besides acting as a payment processor they are also facilitating an exchange.

Like mentioned above an exchange is taking place, unless it can be argued that that exchange is occurring on a regulated MSB licensed exchange and their regulatory power is being used, which would take liability away from the "User"whether it be BitPay or the Merchant acting individually as a Money Transmitter.

Here is a list of all of PayPal's State Licenses: https://www.paypal-media.com/licenses
You can see most of them are MSB Licenses for the States requiring them, I doubt PayPal got them for no reason if they weren't needed.

Also it might be that PayPal got them to umbrella it's users under their MSB licenses, if the responsibility falls on the Users since they are facilitating the activity through PayPal, but this would not make logically as that means PayPal is classified as an MSB to have any of those benefits apply to it's users.
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