How IRS keeps me brave and HODL'ing BTC/ALTS(despite fears) Whatever works...

[Searing]

BTC and HODL is the way to go....due to legal in USA and IRS issues...as the title says...keeps me on the up and up from panic selling it all and running off with the
exotic dancers a few blocks away....(probably a good thing this fear and FOMO of missiong out should I fall off the HODL wagon)

I made my BTC and other cryptos mining, thus sitting on them like a hen on eggs....wondering when the price will hit a point I will snap like a twig

But the good old IRS has saved me from such considerations (see below)

The way the IRS looks at my long-term gains since 2013..as OBVIOUSLY a steady, well thought out investment  (right?) anyway how the tax law sees it...

I'm SUPPOSED TO treat my BTC and crypto as a LONG TERM NEW ASSET CLASS  and modestly take out a bit of coin as my life goes on...(tax man view)

as a responsible citizen...I mean capital gains is a long term prudent investment right....it is impossible to go from 9c in 2009 to 8k in 2017 right...(IRS view)

Thus where I am at ..if I wanted to run amuck and ....IF I was to sell...all BTC and Crypto in a mad frenzy of panic.....I'd get creamed with capital gains tax

and increasing my tax bracket.....so say I panic, sell it all ....44% capital gains on Last in First Out (the 44% includes 20% capital gains..9% state of MN on such

and the increased tax bracket jump I'd take ..ouch..thus 44%..might not be that high..but damn well would be 35%)

So I've now I've panic'd and took the loss on my hoard of BTC and ALTS...I then put them in my nice Edward Jones Accounts...like a good little wage slave....

Ack! scared self on above Ack!

everyone, including my above broker,  assumes a recession is coming in 2018 ...let's face it we are due..(myself I think by March 2018) a recession is AT LEAST a 20%
downturn...myself I expect worse with current Gov't climate...perhaps a deep recession of 40%. Ack!

so now at minimum  I'm looking at 64% to say 84% WHEN  the traditional Edward Jones finance account goes plop.the above % in a recession
..*sure it may come back in 5 years but still*..thus timing is perfect..and I'm 64% down for my panic sell....

so say I'm 64-84% down by March 2018 with this panic sell of all my crypto...the real kicker is IF we have a modest recession only (or more) BTC and other

crypto is likely to go UP as a store of value....(like gold) and I'd be looking at the PUMP in crypto I'd miss by losing faith in BTC and the other ALTS I hold...

that would suck...watch BTC double because of 'prudent adult panic and sell of all crypto' (adults are over-rated anyway)

The current tax laws are not made for windfall withdrawals on black swan finance events like BTC/Apple/Facebook/etc ...so 1st 15% is tax-free on capital gains up

to 35K I think it is..eat out a bit more add 20% on that for capital gains...in 2018..sure ....that might be prudent next year....but blow a mess of crytpo anyway with tax law

now...damn..that could haunt you for the rest of your life...I'd rather chance tulips on my crypto and HODL
 
The tax setup as you are supposed to nibble away at this as long-term investments as you age for your supposed new asset class and store of value..like again a
prudent adult not dump and run, the IRS god's frown on such and thou shall be slapped down

Thus the title of this thread..how the IRS is keeping my brave and HODL'ing (really!)

thus, panic is not the solution...HODL is the way to go.....

(alas, can't 'act out' and run off with local exotic dancers..would take to large a hit for them to be impressed anymore)

So anyway, thus the point of my thread here....the actual IRS and tax man etc...is keeping my in 'Adult Mode' and the FOMO of my crypto (delusions? as my friends

and relatives think...all kidding aside...I'm almost positive that after me talking about this 4 years and them seeing bubble every other day on the news they are

gonna have an intervention and likely try to 'deprogram me' from this obvious crypto cult..you laugh ..if I don't post for a month, I'll see you later at the sanatorium also.)

Anyway, myself still mining, so I can keep busy and continue my self-imposed delusion of thinking of any crypto I have as magic internet/unicorn/fairy/rainbow/tulip money

because, again if I think of all my crypto as REAL HONEST TO GOD CASH...again, I will snap like a twig and run off and do the 'strippers are us' run up to happiness



Thus best to be 1) afraid of slap down by IRS 2) continue to keep the delusion going on unicorn/tulip crypto money (ie not real $$$) and 3) try to avoid any 'gold diggers'

knowing I have any crypto...for some 'unfathomable reason' I've heard say...that suddenly on such a revelation you look a LOT more attractive.....(naw...must be a myth)



What are your expectations/thoughts/resistance techniques from just blowing the entire wad of your crypto.?I mean we all are gonna snap/sell on some amount right?



So it is lucky the IRS is looking out for me and making me hold due to the foresight of their IRS 2013 Tax Guidelines and the good old Capital Gains Tax on investments.


So again, how are you resisting the (blasphemy) notion of selling some or all of your BTC and crypto?

These prices are beyond what I expected from last Fall of 2017 when my BTC was $475 USD (also when I got Lisk for 1 BTC, don't get me started on lLisk....sheesh)


But anyway, this whole teleportation .from 475 usd BTC last year..to 10k BTC is giving me more than a 'few' interesting thoughts...(

What if Jamie diamond is right! Ack! The horror. Ack!)

Anyway, comment here....put me on /ignore ..I don't mind....


take the poll.....if you don't mind

[Searing]

Reserved.



(Reserved for the inevitable backlash for making a thread on the 3 evils of BTC. (1) Selling BTC (2) IRS (3) Tulips.)


Reserved.

[gredisgold88]

w o w, I'm so impressed with your opinion, prices btc can't seeing point, it is always change and a fluctative value.

[Searing]

w o w, I'm so impressed with your opinion, prices btc can't seeing point, it is always change and a fluctative value.

Again prudent investments work like below

1) anything up to 35K income. No capital gains tax. *though it could kick you up a tax bracket with other income*

2) something/something 20% capital gains on an amount from 35k to whatever (too lazy to look it up)

Thus you have a hoard, you want to run off with strippers, you don't want the IRS to take you away, you are stuck with the above.....

alas, no strippers.....alas, have to treat it like any other long-term investment....alas, can't run amuck!

This being an adult sucks...oh well, with above 'borders' guess it is responsible adult mode and ride this out

damn you IRS, I could have given Charlie Sheen a run for his money!


P.S. I'm at this 'interesting point' at 10k coin....what is your interesting point? 20k 50k 100k a BTC ..if this whole black swan event of BTC works

you will all be making posts like mine, sometime in the next few years. (be careful what you wish for, you may surely get it)

[davis196]

I`m happy that i don`t live in the USA.US taxes are insane.
I`m sure tha there is a "legal" way to avoid this capital gain taxation.Perhaps by registering a company in some offshore island with low taxation.Maybe you could "cancel" your US sitizenship and become sitizen of some other country.If there were such capital gain taxes in my country(i live in the EU) i would hold my cryptocurrencies forever and refuse to sell them for fiat money.
Maybe i would wait for more merchants to accept bitcoin and start buying goods and services directly with btc.

[Searing]

I`m happy that i don`t live in the USA.US taxes are insane.
I`m sure tha there is a "legal" way to avoid this capital gain taxation.Perhaps by registering a company in some offshore island with low taxation.Maybe you could "cancel" your US sitizenship and become sitizen of some other country.If there were such capital gain taxes in my country(i live in the EU) i would hold my cryptocurrencies forever and refuse to sell them for fiat money.
Maybe i would wait for more merchants to accept bitcoin and start buying goods and services directly with btc.

Well the catch is.....the IRS gives me lots of tax write offs....for example since 2013 I've not paid any taxes...because what I owed, in taxes ...I got taken off in gross income from mining vs
same amount taken off in equip purchase..thus a wash

the IRS charges 25% min (depends on your income it goes up to 50%) on crypto mining...on the other hand ..say I make 10k mining ...if I buy 10k in equip that = 0 no taxes

now, that worked pretty well in 2013 till now 2017, when I made a mess of BTC...not so well now

i also just found out I can now do a solo 401k (my crypto is a biz) ...as an example from the internet if 100k income I can put 40k or so if over 59.5 years I think it is can go off taxes.....thus with the other 60k
in mining equip ..it is more or less even

but from my above.....IF YOU WANTED TO CASH THE LOT OUT that could be a problem

thou you could take it as a loss *up to 3k a year for the rest of your life* etc...lol ...of course in USA billionaires like trump are allowed to go bankrupt 3x and write stuff off

anyway, will use the solo 401k retirement fund angle (can put crypto in it) as a hedge..will fill that bucket first..then equip next and if all else pay the tax as 3rd choice as long

as home mining holds out (at 12c kwh unlikely much longer)


eventually, I won't be able to mine anymore (at 12c kwh) so I can maybe wrap this up in 2018 and just HODL my crypto of many flavors..have all paid ..ROI done all crypto is profit

hopefully, how it will play out...but again IRS sees these tax advantages for long-term investments..thus the captial gains etc I mention above.....you can get your $$$ out

but depending on how large you can take quite a hit....this kinda take out for capital gains is supposed to be slow when you retire a bit at a time .not a lump sum windfall

on the other hand

IF BTC survives even if from now on it simply acted as a regular investment and say got 11% return a year..you can bleed it off in the manner of the previous post on this thread
a bit at a time staying under or low capital gains on your modest take out for income

but dumping it all..you'd get killed by the tax man, then again if on the other hand, all crypto did go tulips...i could write the losses off my future taxes 3k at a pop forever

*hey, what is 15 years*  at 3k a pop (what I have left) (er...wait would not even have that left in solo 401k but if tulips...would be a loss anyway) (hurt my head on that)

anyway, again thru equip wiping out taxes owed (IRS likes you to take chances double down on more equip..then there cut is better next year...thus why you get a tax break

on equip) and this now solo 401k I can fund as a self-employed business that acts the same as equip write-offs...I'll manage to skim thru the rest of home mining of any crypto

with equip from now on

dumb and lucky also works ..being 'legal as hell* has its advantages if BTC went say to 200k ...IRS asks about the speedboat and supermodels...I can laugh and send them

to my CPA accountant and all is well ..if BTC goes to 200k a BTC ...how the hell would you spend it w/o NOT changing your lifestyle....that would suck

anyway, just saying, if everyone on bitcointalk ARE early adopters and even 8k BTC will be  killing in 10 years.....keep this stuff in mind.....find a way to play the game

with the tax man, you are happy

and in the USA, you can't go overseas and not pay taxes you still owe them ....so no joy there

anyway it is all a matter of how much crypto you have at the end of the game...also you can take electric and some other stuff besides miners off your gross income
as well

catch is finding NON-dubious equipment to make all this work.....more money out mining then put into equip ..as of now that looks lame..thus the solo 401k bucket to fill

first for the same benifit as equip/elec/etc off gross income = remaining net income taxed (at whatever your rate is) and again capital gains is above that but it is how

the game is played in the USA. Go figure.

[iamTom123]

I`m happy that i don`t live in the USA.US taxes are insane. I`m sure that there is a "legal" way to avoid this capital gain taxation.Perhaps by registering a company in some offshore island with low taxation.Maybe you could "cancel" your US citizenship and become citizen of some other country. If there were such capital gain taxes in my country(i live in the EU) i would hold my cryptocurrencies forever and refuse to sell them for fiat money. Maybe i would wait for more merchants to accept bitcoin and start buying goods and services directly with btc.

Living with tax is quite inevitable if one is a citizen of the most powerful country in the world. The same thing if you are also in the euro zone as these countries are very serious in implementing even the very detailed part of their laws on taxation. But then again, this is part of life and if one has made a transaction to convert Bitcoin into the fiat money, then the tax machine will roll, no choice on that. There can be some remedies with that probably...maybe transferring your Bitcoin to an offshore account will do (am just imagining this) akin to what wealthy people are doing with their liquid assets.

I also am not based in USA and am happy that my country of residence is not very strict in implementing laws on tax as we are given the choice to declare or not to declare our Bitcoin transactions though am suspecting that the government is using the value-added tax on our Bitcoin transactions via the licensed local-based Bitcoin wallet operators. These days, a strict government implementing the tax code for Bitcoin transactions can be better compared to what China did last September.

[Searing]

Again..if you are running your crypto as a home biz like me in USA

do the following

1) do a private solo 401k for the biz....put crypto in that ...same tax benefit as equip with IRS
    so fill that bucket up first 24k to 40k I think ..something like that..I have folk that are using
    and I plan to use below

    https://www.checkbookira.com/

2) don't use crypto of any flavor to buy future miners....if BTC is pumping and all other Alts go
    along (like LTC) it would be silly, sit on your crypto take out a loan at the bank...then if for
    some reason things go pear-shaped you can always sell crypto to pay off bank...but if the crypto
    pumps and mining works ...better to pay back fiat then lose the gains if you would have kept
    your crypto of choice on this pump of BTC and related Alts.

3) HODL as much as you can after electric and expenses.....this ride could end soon and btc could
    go down in price or sideways and all other alt coins would also follow...but remember DIFFICULTY
    of any miner of any flavor will continue to go up 3 months due to sh*t in the pipeline...thus be
    modest/prudent on equip buys

4) if there is a BTC and other crypto pump you probably  are better off buying equip in 2018 then
   use the equip deduction this year...as to the solo 401k below fill that to the max your CPA will
   allow this year in your crypto of choice and same for 2018 before getting equip is my view

my 2c worth

Brad

[darewaller]

BTC and HODL is the way to go....due to legal in USA and IRS issues...as the title says...keeps me on the up and up from panic selling it all and running off with the
exotic dancers a few blocks away....(probably a good thing this fear and FOMO of missiong out should I fall off the HODL wagon)

I made my BTC and other cryptos mining, thus sitting on them like a hen on eggs....wondering when the price will hit a point I will snap like a twig

But the good old IRS has saved me from such considerations (see below)

The way the IRS looks at my long-term gains since 2013..as OBVIOUSLY a steady, well thought out investment  (right?) anyway how the tax law sees it...

I'm SUPPOSED TO treat my BTC and crypto as a LONG TERM NEW ASSET CLASS  and modestly take out a bit of coin as my life goes on...(tax man view)

as a responsible citizen...I mean capital gains is a long term prudent investment right....it is impossible to go from 9c in 2009 to 8k in 2017 right...(IRS view)

Thus where I am at ..if I wanted to run amuck and ....IF I was to sell...all BTC and Crypto in a mad frenzy of panic.....I'd get creamed with capital gains tax

and increasing my tax bracket.....so say I panic, sell it all ....44% capital gains on Last in First Out (the 44% includes 20% capital gains..9% state of MN on such

and the increased tax bracket jump I'd take ..ouch..thus 44%..might not be that high..but damn well would be 35%)

So I've now I've panic'd and took the loss on my hoard of BTC and ALTS...I then put them in my nice Edward Jones Accounts...like a good little wage slave....

Ack! scared self on above Ack!

everyone, including my above broker,  assumes a recession is coming in 2018 ...let's face it we are due..(myself I think by March 2018) a recession is AT LEAST a 20%
downturn...myself I expect worse with current Gov't climate...perhaps a deep recession of 40%. Ack!

so now at minimum  I'm looking at 64% to say 84% WHEN  the traditional Edward Jones finance account goes plop.the above % in a recession
..*sure it may come back in 5 years but still*..thus timing is perfect..and I'm 64% down for my panic sell....

so say I'm 64-84% down by March 2018 with this panic sell of all my crypto...the real kicker is IF we have a modest recession only (or more) BTC and other

crypto is likely to go UP as a store of value....(like gold) and I'd be looking at the PUMP in crypto I'd miss by losing faith in BTC and the other ALTS I hold...

that would suck...watch BTC double because of 'prudent adult panic and sell of all crypto' (adults are over-rated anyway)

The current tax laws are not made for windfall withdrawals on black swan finance events like BTC/Apple/Facebook/etc ...so 1st 15% is tax-free on capital gains up

to 35K I think it is..eat out a bit more add 20% on that for capital gains...in 2018..sure ....that might be prudent next year....but blow a mess of crytpo anyway with tax law

now...damn..that could haunt you for the rest of your life...I'd rather chance tulips on my crypto and HODL
 
The tax setup as you are supposed to nibble away at this as long-term investments as you age for your supposed new asset class and store of value..like again a
prudent adult not dump and run, the IRS god's frown on such and thou shall be slapped down

Thus the title of this thread..how the IRS is keeping my brave and HODL'ing (really!)

thus, panic is not the solution...HODL is the way to go.....

(alas, can't 'act out' and run off with local exotic dancers..would take to large a hit for them to be impressed anymore)

So anyway, thus the point of my thread here....the actual IRS and tax man etc...is keeping my in 'Adult Mode' and the FOMO of my crypto (delusions? as my friends

and relatives think...all kidding aside...I'm almost positive that after me talking about this 4 years and them seeing bubble every other day on the news they are

gonna have an intervention and likely try to 'deprogram me' from this obvious crypto cult..you laugh ..if I don't post for a month, I'll see you later at the sanatorium also.)

Anyway, myself still mining, so I can keep busy and continue my self-imposed delusion of thinking of any crypto I have as magic internet/unicorn/fairy/rainbow/tulip money

because, again if I think of all my crypto as REAL HONEST TO GOD CASH...again, I will snap like a twig and run off and do the 'strippers are us' run up to happiness



Thus best to be 1) afraid of slap down by IRS 2) continue to keep the delusion going on unicorn/tulip crypto money (ie not real $$$) and 3) try to avoid any 'gold diggers'

knowing I have any crypto...for some 'unfathomable reason' I've heard say...that suddenly on such a revelation you look a LOT more attractive.....(naw...must be a myth)



What are your expectations/thoughts/resistance techniques from just blowing the entire wad of your crypto.?I mean we all are gonna snap/sell on some amount right?



So it is lucky the IRS is looking out for me and making me hold due to the foresight of their IRS 2013 Tax Guidelines and the good old Capital Gains Tax on investments.


So again, how are you resisting the (blasphemy) notion of selling some or all of your BTC and crypto?

These prices are beyond what I expected from last Fall of 2017 when my BTC was $475 USD (also when I got Lisk for 1 BTC, don't get me started on lLisk....sheesh)


But anyway, this whole teleportation .from 475 usd BTC last year..to 10k BTC is giving me more than a 'few' interesting thoughts...(

What if Jamie diamond is right! Ack! The horror. Ack!)

Anyway, comment here....put me on /ignore ..I don't mind....


take the poll.....if you don't mind

Lmao… seriously, someone said he’d crack at 100k USD per bitcoin, very funny. Well, maybe it’s possible. I came across a YouTube video that claims bitcoin will reach the price rate of 50k within few months, but I’m not the type that will believe in such. I might sell at the rate of 10k, but not pretty sure about that, have to wait and see how this will really roll out in future.

[Searing]

Looked at the poll....

the 1 vote for 'will hold all BTC on usb till I die"

and the

1 vote for 'sold too many already'

are both so SAD........

(although I must say ...being boring, not having a life, has allowed me to accumulate BTC...then again....being boring...am like the clueless old retired farmer

who could sell his farm for millions (not me talking about the farmer) and does not do so..because he has no idea how not to be boring)

sheesh....sell my crypto

1) girls would like me for all the wrong reasons...(I forget why, too old, but they are useful for something or other, been so long I forget)

2) travel to exotic places..eat the food get sick and die (or robbed and die, or plane crash and die, get an illness and die,)

3) Buy lots of stuff that will go on an estate sale when I pass for pennies on the dollar paid (wait.... my apple ii collection!) ...lame

4) would be required to be 'social' and 'polite' and hang around 'people' and improve 'dining skills' ..have to be a wine snob ..all sounds like a lot of work

Naw, best just to sit on the BTC and treat it yet as 'unicorn/magical/fairydust/funny money' and not consider it 'real' only 'paper profits'

It worked well last year when BTC in the fall of 2016 was $475 usd and now it is barely winter of 2017 and it is $8.2k each

wtf

IF it goes parabolic it could be 24k by march of 2018..not likely...but odds imho are the same as BTC dropping to 2k in that time frame

oh well, this post is giving uncomfortable thoughts...especially about girls liking me for all the wrong reasons...supposedly the more BTC you have

the more attractive you get ..go figure...I just wish I could remember that far back on what they are good for...?? nope, got nothing

[Searing]

on a side note on snapshots off my BTC with BCH and BTG and soon to be BTD (lol).....shows I"ve made lots of 'paper money moolah' on such snapshots

my assumption is most will eventually flow back into BTC and up the BTC price accordingly

not assuming I'm correct (or not)

what do you guys think the price will level out for say BCH? as an ALT coin....assuming, it survives into 2018? or BTG? or BTD (lol, that one still cracks me up)

I thought BCH would be $12 by now..(i posted this someplace in the forum) ...lol....so befuddled...what do others think?

The only assumption made on above is that BCH, BTG and BTD will survive as an altcoin in 2018...to make this comparison/guess?

[Hydrogen]

Thus where I am at ..if I wanted to run amuck and ....IF I was to sell...all BTC and Crypto in a mad frenzy of panic.....I'd get creamed with capital gains tax

and increasing my tax bracket.....so say I panic, sell it all ....44% capital gains on Last in First Out (the 44% includes 20% capital gains..9% state of MN on such

....

I would be curious to know if its possible to drop the 9% minnesota tax by taking a trip across state lines & cashing out btc in florida, texas or another place that has no state income tax. Might it be possible to cross the border into mexico and cashed out their btc, then pay out whatever mexican taxes were to avoid american taxes. I get a feeling all of the methods I mentioned would not work. But it is interesting to think about.

I think it may be legal to gift someone up to $14,000 in cash under tax free conditions. Not certain if these liberties apply to bitcoin. But if someone gave $14,000 in bitcoin to their spouse there's a slight chance it could represent a loophole that would make it tax free. There may be other methods of utilizing legal loopholes to reduce the tax.

In my case HODL and taxes don't matter much. I think the approach I should take is to try to build long term value and not worry too much about the losses I'll probably take on taxes and whatever else.

[Youghoor]

I have been reading the whole bible that you wrote in there, and let me tell you that trying to avoid taxes is something that can be something difficult to do, specially if you are living on the USA and in some states that are very strict about legal issues like New York or New Hampshire.

Be careful because you can easily go to jail if they discover that you have been avoiding taxes, specially for bitcoin because that is something that has not been regulated yet, and bitcoin is just laying in a string, and is about to fall on the abism of the ilegality.

It is a difficult thing to explain, here in my country i dont have problems with my taxes because they dont even care about it, and you can buy almost everything with cash without having to do so much paper work.

[Searing]

I have been reading the whole bible that you wrote in there, and let me tell you that trying to avoid taxes is something that can be something difficult to do, specially if you are living on the USA and in some states that are very strict about legal issues like New York or New Hampshire.

Be careful because you can easily go to jail if they discover that you have been avoiding taxes, specially for bitcoin because that is something that has not been regulated yet, and bitcoin is just laying in a string, and is about to fall on the abism of the ilegality.

It is a difficult thing to explain, here in my country i dont have problems with my taxes because they dont even care about it, and you can buy almost everything with cash without having to do so much paper work.

No. I’m legal as heck since 2013 on a bank error I was outed to SEC. By my bank
Because all btc was evil that year. Got CPA Lady and had taxes done. On proof of bank
error was as I figured. Embarrassed banker tried to go after me on saying I was obviously
evil. Btc and all. Obviously not paid taxes. Slapping down the CPA taxes done for 2013. That
followed the 2013 guidelines by IRS was priceless. The SEC guy on the speaker phone was
why am I hear.

All the tax stuff I do is legal as hell.

Also remember in USA IRS can go back 7 years. In 7 years from now with blockchain tools
they will have by then, and say 30k btc. You really think they won’t go fishing and not
check your capital gains in 2015 taxes etc

No. I got no worries there. Well worth $$ long term to CPA lady.