Why is bitcoin price not going up?

[Peter Lambert]

It's the same story - the rich get richer.

I prefer the phrasing, "It takes money to make money."

Maybe we could try one of those other systems that has always failed?  Do it somehow differently, and see if we can avoid the problem of running out of other people's money?

Avoiding the problem of running out of other people's money is generally how wealth is gained. It really only differs in how happy you make them about parting with it, and how much you have to fool them to do so.

I prefer the phrasing "the rich get richer" as it applies to systems without money, I think it causes the failure of a lot of systems, as well as the repeated failure of the most popular.

The rich are the people who made money. They know how to make money, so that is what they do, they make more money. The poor do not know how to make money, so they don't or else they would be rich.

[Lohoris]

The rich are the people who made money. They know how to make money, so that is what they do, they make more money. The poor do not know how to make money, so they don't or else they would be rich.

The first part is true, but the second one is a bit off.
The "know" is never enough, you also need the "opportunity".

[Dealer]

Because it is a currency based upon speculation. You can't expect infinite rises. The price is supposed to go up and down.

[Peter Lambert]

The rich are the people who made money. They know how to make money, so that is what they do, they make more money. The poor do not know how to make money, so they don't or else they would be rich.

The first part is true, but the second one is a bit off.
The "know" is never enough, you also need the "opportunity".

Maybe knowing how to spot an opportunity or create your own is the first thing you need to know?

[johnyj]

From an investment point of view, there are 3 types of investors in mining industry:

1. Investors who bought ASIC devices using bitcoin
These investors are pure bitcoin only, they will never cash out to fiat since they believe the bitcoin is the way to go, they will not affect the market price

2. Investors who pre-ordered ASIC devices last year using fiat money
For them, they might want to get the invested fiat money back, since currently the ASIC devices are very efficient, they only need to sale small amount of coin to break even, and then they can keep it running risk free

3. Investors who pre-ordered ASIC devices recently using fiat money
They will get delivery in autumn, by that time, to return on investment is not that easy, they might need to continuously sell the coins until they reach break even, they will put a pressure on the price

We might see much more sell presure on the market when difficulty went enough high this autumn

[notme]

From an investment point of view, there are 3 types of investors in mining industry:

1. Investors who bought ASIC devices using bitcoin
These investors are pure bitcoin only, they will never cash out to fiat since they believe the bitcoin is the way to go, they will not affect the market price

2. Investors who pre-ordered ASIC devices last year using fiat money
For them, they might want to get the invested fiat money back, since currently the ASIC devices are very efficient, they only need to sale small amount of coin to break even, and then they can keep it running risk free

3. Investors who pre-ordered ASIC devices recently using fiat money
They will get delivery in autumn, by that time, to return on investment is not that easy, they might need to continuously sell the coins until they reach break even, they will put a pressure on the price

We might see much more sell presure on the market when difficulty went enough high this autumn

ROI in fiat terms has historically been easier if you don't sell immediately.

[joae1975]

Just buy gold with Bitcoin, end of story.

[Chrstian]

the bitcoin price is going up o.o? what charts are you looking at.

[Tzupy]

Well, I was wrong about price dropping to 50-60 before rising high.
The pump-up of these last 2 days is quite sharp. And no one seems to dump yet.
The attempted pump-up of the 25th June got squashed down immediately.
Question: where are those desperate sellers that on the 6th July drove the price down to 65?

[desired_username]

Just buy gold with Bitcoin, end of story.

Maybe the worst advice anyone can give.

Diversify instead. I wouldn't put more than 5% of my wealth in gold. Also, I would steer away from "paper gold".

[lucasjkr]

To date, none of the "paper gold" etf's have experienced any issues. There's ishares, SPDR, the sprott physical ETF, no problems with any of them. They have acted just as gold has on the markets, and the advantage is that you can buy and sell them by paying just a trade commission, not 2% or more dealer mark up.

I think the fear of paper gold is vastly unfounded, myself.... still don't like gold much as an investment, but if people are enamored by it, i don't see the downfall of buying the paper version... Lots of people smarter than us have no issues holding those shares.

[trashymonkey]

Have you seen how fast gold has increased the last few years? Everyone says its just going to go up. Its also a very safe investment. If you hold on to your gold for a while, your not going to lose money.

[desired_username]

Have you seen how fast gold has increased the last few years? Everyone says its just going to go up. Its also a very safe investment. If you hold on to your gold for a while, your not going to lose money.

It depends when you buy. for example: http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=XAU&to=USD&view=1Y there were and will be many timeframes which are bad times to buy or hold gold, hence part of your statement is false.

Anyhow, I have some gold, I call it the armageddon fund

If the time comes when I need to use precious metals to get something or survive then the value expressed in USD will be rather irrelevant

If someone trades frequently then paper gold is OK. if you want to hold it long or indefinitely then it's quite irresponsible to have in my opinion.
I also don't like the fact that the quantity of the actual physical gold is less than what is speculated on. But correct me if I'm wrong.

[Peter Lambert]

Well, I was wrong about price dropping to 50-60 before rising high.
The pump-up of these last 2 days is quite sharp. And no one seems to dump yet.
The attempted pump-up of the 25th June got squashed down immediately.
Question: where are those desperate sellers that on the 6th July drove the price down to 65?

They are still waiting for the price to get down to 50 so they can buy back in. They might be waiting a while.

[lucasjkr]

Have you seen how fast gold has increased the last few years? Everyone says its just going to go up. Its also a very safe investment. If you hold on to your gold for a while, your not going to lose money.

It depends when you buy. for example: http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=XAU&to=USD&view=1Y there were and will be many timeframes which are bad times to buy or hold gold, hence part of your statement is false.

Anyhow, I have some gold, I call it the armageddon fund

If the time comes when I need to use precious metals to get something or survive then the value expressed in USD will be rather irrelevant

If someone trades frequently then paper gold is OK. if you want to hold it long or indefinitely then it's quite irresponsible to have in my opinion.
I also don't like the fact that the quantity of the actual physical gold is less than what is speculated on. But correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, if you want gold for fear the world will collapse, physical is the way to go. For most anyone else, the paper version has all the same merits and is convertible to cash without even leaving your computer.

I wonder what you mean about amount of physical gold vs what's speculated?

[notme]

Have you seen how fast gold has increased the last few years? Everyone says its just going to go up. Its also a very safe investment. If you hold on to your gold for a while, your not going to lose money.

It depends when you buy. for example: http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=XAU&to=USD&view=1Y there were and will be many timeframes which are bad times to buy or hold gold, hence part of your statement is false.

Anyhow, I have some gold, I call it the armageddon fund

If the time comes when I need to use precious metals to get something or survive then the value expressed in USD will be rather irrelevant

If someone trades frequently then paper gold is OK. if you want to hold it long or indefinitely then it's quite irresponsible to have in my opinion.
I also don't like the fact that the quantity of the actual physical gold is less than what is speculated on. But correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, if you want gold for fear the world will collapse, physical is the way to go. For most anyone else, the paper version has all the same merits and is convertible to cash without even leaving your computer.

I wonder what you mean about amount of physical gold vs what's speculated?

No need for the world to collapse.  If your broker, or the paper gold issuer goes bust, you will be SOL.

[desired_username]

I wonder what you mean about amount of physical gold vs what's speculated?

Let's say that there are x tonnes of gold existing now in circulation in physical form. As far as I know there have been much more "paper" gold issued and speculated on. I think it's a recipe for a disaster.

I too share lucasjkr's view. It will be interesting when these issuers go bust.

[JoelKatz]

Yes, if you want gold for fear the world will collapse, physical is the way to go. For most anyone else, the paper version has all the same merits and is convertible to cash without even leaving your computer.

Paper gold has a risk cost and a convenience premium relative to physical gold. For most use cases, the convenience outweighs the risk. But it is a decision you have to make, and you must always keep in mind the fact that there is counter-party risk.

[justusranvier]

The entire world's never going to collapse all at once, but the certain parts of it will see periods of extreme turmoil from time to time.

If you happen to be located in one of those parts of the world and see the signs of impending turmoil, it's far better to move to some calmer part of the world before it's too late rather than try to shelter in place.

In this scenario gold is nearly useless, even in physical form. If you really need to leave a country quickly you can't take significant quantities of gold with you.

Bitcoins, on the other hand...

[NewLiberty]

The entire world's never going to collapse all at once, but the certain parts of it will see periods of extreme turmoil from time to time.

If you happen to be located in one of those parts of the world and see the signs of impending turmoil, it's far better to move to some calmer part of the world before it's too late rather than try to shelter in place.

In this scenario gold is nearly useless, even in physical form. If you really need to leave a country quickly you can't take significant quantities of gold with you.

Bitcoins, on the other hand...

At such times, Having both is best.