Avalon ASIC Chips - Out of Stock

[FlappySocks]

Will KNC allow overclocking on hardware they have to guarantee?


Also, the above calculation doesn't take into account Bitfury, who are going for low-cost mass production (as announced yesterday). That could have a huge impact.

Avalon are supposedly shipping chips in two weeks (quantity unknown).  Burnin looks to be ready to ship the week after. "Production capability ~1000 modules per week".
So we should see a flood of Avalons end of July & August.
Difficulty will rocket.

[culexevilman]

does this boost the price up for avalon chips?

[dan99]

they will be asic chips in the market cheaper than avalon. even butterfly is cheaper, need more competitor's for sure

[titomane]

with kncminer having  100 GH asics on the on the way --- Avalon  need to upgrade to V2

kncminer does not have any asics last time I checked.

This and the higher price for the newer chips doesnt mean that the new tech is so superiour. The gh per $ isnt such a big difference.

Are you nuts? Avalon charges around $50 per gh bulk chip, KnC is potentially offering $17.50 per assembled gh!

Ok lets calculate:

Jupiter: $6995 + 19% VAT = $8324.05 = $20.81 per GH

Avalon: 782.1BTC for 10K Chips = $81338.4
Using burnin for assembly (he is a bit more expensive than others so i dont take psu and other things into account. There are assemblers that need nearly half ot that price only.)
10K Chips assembly is 50000€ = $65155
Total: $146493.4 = $51.948 per GH

Now see that the clockcap isnt at 282MHz but at 450MHz. Thats a overclocking capability up to 159.57% instead 100%.

With proper cooling possible. Means $32.554 per GH.

So by letting the chips run at normal 282Mhz the price per GH is 2.496 times higher. With overclocking its only 1.5643 times higher cost.

Then take into account that kncminers will come out months later after the avalon chip miners are running since a long time already. The difficulty is rising 10 to 25% each 2 weeks at the moment. That means each month is getting 22% to 55% higher difficulty.

What do you think will remain from the lower price once the kncminers are running? And you can be sure that kncminer is running into the same starting problems every miner creator ran into in the past. Means more waiting time.

I think its funny that the price difference for the GH are so near together between old and new tech. I now know why Asicminer and Avalon used the old techniques first.

In my opinion kncminer customers would have been better chosing a technique that is available faster. Time is one of the most crucial factors at the moment. Of course kncminer will use less power... but it will take time until the power cost will be a factor that has to be taken into account really.

OC chips Vs normal chip NOT FAIR
Include the vat on the purchase of KNC and not include any costs for customs border. NOT FAIR
But forget the electric consumption by GHs.

For me the most important:
  10000 Avalon 2.82THs 780BTC $ 78,000   + or- 25KW
        11 Jupiter     4THs 770BTC  $ 77,000  + or- 11KW

41% more hashrate
66% less power
No production cost

[SebastianJu]

Youre right, the other chips most probably can be overclocked too and some vat comes on top for sure. But i wonder if its possible in the same percentage area because of the higher power on the same space needed. That could lead to heat problems while overclocking.

But youre right. You can use the standard rates too to compare. But even then... wheres the advantage when kncminer delivers months later when the difficulty is much higher? In my opinion there will be no big difference then anymore. The time for roi will be the same for avalon chip miner like for kncminers that comes months later. If kncminer would be 1/5 or 1/10 of the price, but it isnt. So difficulty and time will kill the advantage.

Ok, over time the lower power usage is something good, but it takes a long time since the power usage is a factor.

But much guess is included... its only my believe.

[SebastianJu]

Why are the chips still out of order? They still work on the website?

[titomane]

Do not think they made ​​the order of all the chips this week. To order larger and more economical.
It would be a disgrace to those who paid in the first orders.

[grue]

[...]

For me the most important:
  10000 Avalon 2.82THs 780BTC $ 78,000   + or- 25KW
        11 Jupiter     4THs 770BTC  $ 77,000  + or- 11KW

41% more hashrate
66% less power
No production cost

Assuming their deliver according to specs

[SebastianJu]

Do not think they made ​​the order of all the chips this week. To order larger and more economical.
It would be a disgrace to those who paid in the first orders.

Why should that matter?
I only can say that all batches that were ordered from the start april to may went to chips ordered on may 21. That was 5 weeks after zefirs first batch order.
All other batches that were ordered after that time went to Chips ordered fast. In hours.
That means for me that the order was sent to the foundry. And that the other batches were ordered so fast means to me that the foundry didnt start the creation till that time. So that new batches still could slip in because the foundry for sure will do it in one work. Thats simply more economically. Because its work to set up the machines to create the chips.

So im pretty sure that all batches will arrive at avalon at the same time. But maybe yifu will ship them one by one then. But i doubt that he will keep them back artificially.

[greaterninja]

if they do a 28nm asic thats gonna be a game changer.  I say this because they are skipping 45nm package. 

I'm just curious how much capital and resources is needed to make a chip package structure like this.

[FlappySocks]

if they do a 28nm custom asic thats gonna be a game changer.  however it seems they did fpga to asic conversion...at 28nm it still should be a game changer.

I'm just curious how much capital and resources is needed to make a chip package structure like this.

Depends. Gh/$/watt.

1 KNC 28nm = 20 Bitfury chips.

KNC are going for a high value,low volume. Bitfury low-cost mass market.

[titomane]

Do not think they made ​​the order of all the chips this week. To order larger and more economical.
It would be a disgrace to those who paid in the first orders.

Why should that matter?
I only can say that all batches that were ordered from the start april to may went to chips ordered on may 21. That was 5 weeks after zefirs first batch order.
All other batches that were ordered after that time went to Chips ordered fast. In hours.
That means for me that the order was sent to the foundry. And that the other batches were ordered so fast means to me that the foundry didnt start the creation till that time. So that new batches still could slip in because the foundry for sure will do it in one work. Thats simply more economically. Because its work to set up the machines to create the chips.

So im pretty sure that all batches will arrive at avalon at the same time. But maybe yifu will ship them one by one then. But i doubt that he will keep them back artificially.

I'm sure the chips do not retain, can not mine such as AvalonBatch 2&3.

[aopa38]

website still saying "out of stock". Strange way to do maintenance on a Wordpress website...

[Bitcoinorama]

Will KNC allow overclocking on hardware they have to guarantee?


Also, the above calculation doesn't take into account Bitfury, who are going for low-cost mass production (as announced yesterday). That could have a huge impact.

Avalon are supposedly shipping chips in two weeks (quantity unknown).  Burnin looks to be ready to ship the week after. "Production capability ~1000 modules per week".
So we should see a flood of Avalons end of July & August.
Difficulty will rocket.

No. Obviously no manufacture will offer a guarantee through overclocking, it is there responsibility to give you a stable product. You f**k it up at your own risk!

[Bitcoinorama]

if they do a 28nm asic thats gonna be a game changer.  I say this because they are skipping 45nm package. 

I'm just curious how much capital and resources is needed to make a chip package structure like this.

$3-5 million for NRE.

[Rampion]

[...]

For me the most important:
  10000 Avalon 2.82THs 780BTC $ 78,000   + or- 25KW
        11 Jupiter     4THs 770BTC  $ 77,000  + or- 11KW

41% more hashrate
66% less power
No production cost

Assuming their deliver according to specs

From 10,000 overclocked Avalon chips you can get 4TH/s, good and stable (non overclocked 2,82TH/s).

And chips are priced in BTC - wait till BTC hits $30 to $50. Then the $/GH/s of Avalon chips will be waaaaay better

[titomane]

[...]

For me the most important:
  10000 Avalon 2.82THs 780BTC $ 78,000   + or- 25KW
        11 Jupiter     4THs 770BTC  $ 77,000  + or- 11KW

41% more hashrate
66% less power
No production cost

Assuming their deliver according to specs

From 10,000 overclocked Avalon chips you can get 4TH/s, good and stable (non overclocked 2,82TH/s).

And chips are priced in BTC - wait till BTC hits $30 to $50. Then the $/GH/s of Avalon chips will be waaaaay better

Do not forget if you OC any chip. Need more watts per chip. Also more watts for the cooling system.
We must have a 282Mhz chip has a stress if it runs at 400Mhz. Higher possibility of failure. +42% OC is much for air cooling.

Just think that your competitors do the same OC.
Bitfury 120 to 170                       12.7 $ / Ghs
BFL 25 to 35 50 to 71 etc. ..         35.2$ / Ghs
KNC 200 to 284 400 to 568           12.3$ / Ghs

Avalon 2820 to 4000                    19.5$ / Ghs Not counting the manufacture of miners
                                                35$  / Ghs If we value the manufacture of each avalon 4 modules at $ 2,000. 31*2000 = 62000+78000 = 140000/4000 = 35


I have not added in any device the liquid cooling system and new PSU + Watts needed.

                                              

[Rampion]

[...]

For me the most important:
  10000 Avalon 2.82THs 780BTC $ 78,000   + or- 25KW
        11 Jupiter     4THs 770BTC  $ 77,000  + or- 11KW

41% more hashrate
66% less power
No production cost

Assuming their deliver according to specs

From 10,000 overclocked Avalon chips you can get 4TH/s, good and stable (non overclocked 2,82TH/s).

And chips are priced in BTC - wait till BTC hits $30 to $50. Then the $/GH/s of Avalon chips will be waaaaay better

Do not forget if you OC any chip. Need more watts per chip. Also more watts for the cooling system.
We must have a 282Mhz chip has a stress if it runs at 400Mhz. Higher possibility of failure. +42% OC is much for air cooling.

Just think that your competitors do the same OC.
Bitfury 120 to 170                       12.7 $ / Ghs
BFL 25 to 35 50 to 71 etc. ..         35.2$ / Ghs
KNC 200 to 284 400 to 568           12.3$ / Ghs

Avalon 2820 to 4000                    19.5$ / Ghs Not counting the manufacture of miners
                                                35$  / Ghs If we value the manufacture of each avalon 4 modules at $ 2,000. 31*2000 = 62000+78000 = 140000/4000 = 35


I have not added in any device the liquid cooling system and new PSU + Watts needed.

                                              

Yes, but I'm assuming that BTC price will go down hard, to at least 50% of its actual price (so around $50), and that Avalon's chips are priced in BTC. From what Yifu said, they will "raise and fall" with BTC and won't change the price regardless of the exchange rate. If you consider a BTC/USD of $50, the $/GHs picture changes a lot.