Greetings to all and BitStarz players, and forum members. I want to tell you my interesting
unsuccessful story with BitStarz casino, which led to a loss of
2800 USD.
At November 16, I made a full analysis of most top bitcoin casinos and concluded to work with BitStarz as it has a good reputation (I will not hide this fact). I have read their full Terms & Conditions before making a deposit.
On most cases, I prefer privacy, So I was using proxy from my workplace.
I noticed that in Terms & Conditions there is paragraph 3.1.2 (You are allowed to have only one Member Account. Only one Account for each household, IP, PC is allowed. If you attempt to open more than one Member Account, all accounts you try to open may be blocked or closed and any bets may be voided. Also any returns, deposits, winnings or bonuses which you have gained or accrued during such time as the Duplicate Account was active will be forfeited by you and may be reclaimed by us, and you will return to us on demand any such funds which have been withdrawn from the Duplicate Account.)
Referring to this paragraph I wrote to online chat with this question and was speaking with Russian support (Sasha), and calmed me down:
"If you are using VPN or Proxy, you will need to upload documents (Passport + Bill + selfie with passport).
If you will upload them, you can play from ANY IP. We will know that it is you. Not a duplicate account"
Referring to paragraph 3.1.2 in their T&C, I asked him to tell me in which cases they could Deactivate my account, and he calmed me down again:
"We will deactivate your account only if you will speculate with Multiaccount BONUSES.",
As I understood in next dialog, all bonuses (which are automatically turned ON after registration) oblige you to bet them *40 times and you are under a HUGE risk to be banned (For example you are playing on your iPhone in the bus). During you movement to work, your IP can be changed 5 or 6 times, and if even ONE IP address intersect with other accounts they have 100% right to BAN your account with lost of all funds.
SO, I concluded to minimize risk and refuse all bonuses before I made a deposit.
The second thing I made before registration is the question to Sasha about deposit wagering. Due to paragraph 3.3.7 on Russian Terms&Conditions (
at the 16-th of November) it was
clearly written "All deposits in BTC should be played
*3 times before withdrawal".
I asked online support to clarify this paraghraph. Dear Sasha and Chris (both Russian and International support) CLEARLY said to me, that before withdrawal I need to make bets at *3 of deposit size.
As I understood from chat and fully guided by their Terms And Conditions I was using my local exchange service to deposit 1500$ to start.
After few hours I see, that my balance was changed to 0.182 BTC So I can start playing. I made double check concerning Deactivation of all bonuses, which lead to greater risk to be banned.
And started playing for Table game Hi-Lo Switch. As I'm a strong gambler for last few years, and legally there is no bet limits, I concluded to bet 1500$ with winning chance of 50-60%. As I feel lucky I won 1500$, so my balance was around 0.4 BTC. Referring to paragraph 3.1.2 I started to play with low risk to wage my deposit 3 times. So I made bets to make my bets turnover 0.18*3. After successfull bets on low risk games I have turnover of 0.55 BTC, so now I can start withdrawal process. As casino historically made to loose or win, I have full right to make withdrawal, to get my winnings (I made a very risky step at the beginning when bet 1500$ for 49/51 chance)
And the scam begins.1) I noticed that I have 6 deposit confirmations already I requested withdrawal. 10 minutes after requested withdrawal, they emailed to me to start KYC. To send documents (PASSPORT + BILL). No problem, in 20 minutes all my documents were uploaded to this site.
2) 3 days later I started to write to all their channels (online chat, email, also I was trying to call them by phone). They asked me to upload selfie with passport in my hands. No problem, I ask my wife to do that and I uploded a selfie to their site. And it was APPROVED.
3) Next day I didn't received any pay-out, So I contacted AGAIN online support. It was Sasha again, he told me:
"As you uploaded your documents, you will NOT face any IP restrictions, but now you need to wager you deposit 10 times, not 3 times. AND AFTER THIS YOU WILL NOT FACE ANY PROBLEMS WITH WITHDRAWAL. Be sure."
What-a-f***k? I need to bet my deposit 10 times? But there is paragraph 3.1.2 on Russian T&C, that clearly stated about 3 times, not 10 times!
And why you didn't tell me about this BEFORE?
He said, that I was needed to follow English version of T&C (Remember chat with Sasha and Chris? They were CLEARLY telling me about *3 deposit bets). He said, that Russian Terms and Conditions are *not main*, it was translated not correctly.
So guys, if you read Russian version of Terms And Conditions and follow them, they could ban you following to English T&C, and if you follow English T&C, they could ban you with a different Russian T&C.
As I am not conflict person, after 2 days of become nervous, I realize that I need to bet 500$ for around 25 times. I was thinking that they FORCING me to make more risky bets. As I partially agree with them, it is happened historically that English is the main language, and I was my mistake that I read only my native language T&C but not English, Chineese, Hindu, Norwegian...
It seems to be very profitable for them to use this strategy. To be honestly, Russian T&C are written *perfectly*, there no signs of any translation. They just COULDN'T SKIP a huge paragraph. I think they just added 10 times wager to English version and forgot to add this paragraph to russian version.
So by any manner of means, I concluded to ACCEPT their NEW rules and make new turnover of 15 000 USD. Any man of sense will start betting with the highest change, to withdaw even SOMETHING. So I accepted this strategy and starting making bets. 25 times with 500 USD. At the end of a round I have a balance 2800 USD left. Now due to my calculations I have 1.2 BTC turnover for today + 0.55 BTC for the first day, and 0.05 BTC was wagered on other days.
Luckily I have statistics on my account and I go to Bets History to re-calculate once again all my bets turnover, BEFORE I made a withdrawal.
And I noticed that first few bets for 0.55 BTC are NOT visible any more (seems like they were removed from my history). So my bets turnover was not 1.805 but was aroud 1.455. I didn't understand what is happening I concluded to contact support AGAIN with new question.
I written to online support and now I was speaking with mr.James. I was asking him many-many questions about my turnover. I asked him to give me numbers what is my correct BETS TURNOVER?
GUESS WHAT MY TURNOVER WAS DUE TO HIS CALCULATIONS? ... 1.2 BTC! Not 1.8 BTC
Ha-ha-ha... I repeated question, what the whole amount of bets, not TODAY? Because I made 1.2 BTC turnover only for last 30 minutes?!
He said to me: "Yes, your total turnover is 1.2 BTC"
I said: "But wait, If you see only 1.2 BTC in TOTAL, due to calculations on MY bets history, there are 1.455 BTC. So you are wrong. Re-calculate again please.."
After 10 minutes he said to me, that I have 1.805 turnover. So firstly he was mistaken. But how he was mistaken If he has all bets history, calculations in front of him?
I clearly asked him to CONFIRM, that I do not have any problems now with withdrawal, and he said: "Correct, now after you played 10 times of your deposit value, you can make a withdrawal"
So now I was 100% sure:
1) After first withdrawal request I send them all documents they were asking, and I was clearly told that I will not face issues with IP restrictions.
2) Moreover, later they requested my selfie, I send to them my selfie which was approved.
3) They changed EN version of T&C, and now Russian T&C are changed too.
4) I deactivated all bonuses BEFORE depositing funds.
5) In all cases, I applied for support for an explanation and guide me what to do next. And I make all actions following their support instructions.
And guess what?
5 minutes after I requested withdrawal to my wallet, I was banned and all funds were counterfeited. Huge investigation past for 5 minutes. I think they were ready to ban me already, they were just waiting for the moment.
I contacted online support to explain why I was banned, maybe there were some mistake.
They told me, that I logged in to my account from IP, which was already in their system by any other account. I was just banned because they were thinking that I making some king of fraud.
To be more clear, my account was BLOCKED BY T&C:
1) 3.1.2:
You are allowed to have only one Member Account. Only one Account for each household, IP, PC is allowed. If you attempt to open more than one Member Account, all accounts you try to open may be blocked or closed and any bets may be voided. Also any returns, deposits, winnings or bonuses which you have gained or accrued during such time as the Duplicate Account was active will be forfeited by you and may be reclaimed by us, and you will return to us on demand any such funds which have been withdrawn from the Duplicate Account. If you wish to open another account, you may do so by contacting the Manager at
support@bitstarz.com. If a new account is opened, the old account will be closed. If you notice that you have more than one registered Member Account you must notify us immediately. Failure to do so may lead to your Member account being blocked for access.
My comment to this paragraph:
It was clearly told me by their support, that they were blocking accounts in rare situations, after huge investigation, when people trying to fool their BONUSES system, and if I process KYC + I have no bonuses, IP is not a problem any more for me. Guys, I swear to you that they gives me this information. (BitStarz, please, check Sasha chats history to prove my words). So I am sure that I do not qualify for paragraph.
I decline indictment.
Dear members, am I not right?2) 4.10.6:
If a player's deposit fee is too low and is flagged by blockchain or similar site as “not enough fee to relay” BitStarz reserve the right to confiscate the winnings if BitStarz at their own discretion deem the transaction and behavior of the player to be fraudulent in nature.
My comment to this paragraph:
When exchange service sent transaction to their deposit wallet, after 10 conversations with Sasha, Chris, James and Mike I wasn't told any time about this paraghraph, moreover it wasn't exist few days ago. They added this paragraph recently, I'm sure.
I do not know what comission was set by exchange service, but it WAS'T FLAGGED by blockchain as “not enough fee to relay”, moreover, it was accepted by bitcoin network with no problem. After 1 hour I have 6 confirmations on blockchain network and blockchain site. So there is no reasons to use this paragraph, because “not enough fee to relay” was not be shown anywhere! So I declined this indictment.
Dear members, am I not right?Please, give me I would like to caution all users to play with this casino, because they could modify T&C in a way they want, they could block your account in any suspicious activity EVEN if you were told by their support team (both Russian or International), that everything will be OKAY.
Thanks to all.
My login:
redblackbetEmail:
redblackstone@pochta.comEmail proofs area:
1) First withdrawal
Please confirm your cashout address
BitStarz Casino <
support@bitstarz.com>
at 6 November 2017 22:01:17
Hi there friend,
You have requested a cashout to 12hDRRUDjY9EYGiJgv3kFk8Y3L8HjUNVDF, which prior to today has never been used before.
To protect your account, we ask you to confirm this address by clicking on the below button: bitstarz[.]io/accounts/confirm_cashout_address/1446210/c5b74017
2) #1 KYC
#6FHE8: Withdrawal/Verification
Chris
Thu, 11/16/17 7:03 pm
Hi,
we would like to verify your account but we could not find all required documents attached to your account.
Can you please upload the following documents to your account bitstarz.com/documents
- copy of your passport
- proof of address (utility bill posted to you last 6 months)
Once we receive these documents we will proceed with the verification immediately, which should not take more than 12 hours.
Best regards,
Chris
Support Hero
3) ----------------
T.H.
Fri, 11/17/17 6:44 pm
Good evening, I would like to know how is my verification process?
Login:
redblackstone@pochta.comThanks!
Verification (for payment department)
Chris
Fri, 11/17/17 6:53 pm
Hello,
As mentioned in the chat, as soon as we have information for you, we will be in contact with you.
Best regards,
Chris
Support Hero
4) ----------------
Re: Re: #F8HKT: Verification (for payment department)
T.H. <
redblackstone@pochta.com>
17 November 2017 18:59:21
I understood you Chris, I thought you have a large number of people working in Bitstarz company (in different departaments), so that errors of subordination can arise.
Excuse me for spamming, I'm patiently waiting for verification and to work further.
5) ----------------
BitStarz Casino <
support@bitstarz.com>
20 November 2017 09:37:38
Hi there friend,
You have requested a cashout to
166fRzDykH38KyyyEUcwwYvEfpwwhq6qcr, which prior to today has never been used before.
To protect your account, we ask you to confirm this address by clicking on the below button:
bitstarz[.]io/accounts/confirm_cashout_address/1453797/1206c22c
--------
After I made last withdrawal request (for already verified BTC address), I was banned without any email notification.
It seems they attracting you with instant withdrawals, fast KYC verification, and quality and fast support.
But in truth, this story takes a week of my nervous state, and finally it ends not in my favor, despite the fact that I followed all their advices, I was blocked, moreover they contradict themselves and changing T&C without any notification to customers.
My claim to BitStarz Casino is 0.4 BTC to wallet
12hDRRUDjY9EYGiJgv3kFk8Y3L8HjUNVDF for disinformation from the side of support and
changing the rules after I signed the previous one.
I'm asking BitStarz Casino to
check their chat logs between 16th November to 22th November and
compare with reasons why I was banned. You will notice, that you
contradict to yourself.
