Bitcoin <--> GoldMoney

[imanikin]

Had a good transaction with imanikin. He sent first.

sunnankar is a trustworthy trading partner! Would definitely trade again!

Thank you!

[imanikin]

Anybody has a GoldMoney Full Holding http://www.goldmoney.com/online-payments.html and wants to sell me some BTC for Gold?

Transaction successfully completed with flix!

Look forward to any future business with this trustworthy trading partner! Thank you! 

[flix]

Look forward to any future business with this trustworthy trading partner! Thank you! 

The same goes for imanikin. Fast and smooth. Looking forward to future trades.

[flix]

Oh, and btw, I just came across this:

http://goldstarbullion.com/

Welcome to GoldStarBullion.com! We are proud to be the first internet bullion dealer that accepts only bitcoin in trade.

Just in case you want to close the circle..

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade#Precious_Base_Metals/Coins

[cvicisso]

Oh, and btw, I just came across this:

http://goldstarbullion.com/

Welcome to GoldStarBullion.com! We are proud to be the first internet bullion dealer that accepts only bitcoin in trade.

Wow - that's a great find!  Thanks!  Any idea what their markup is? 

BTW - my rig is back up (and running better with the newest GUIminer build), so I've got a few BTC (let's say 3-ish for now) for 'sale' for GoldGrams if anyone is interested.  PM me if interested.

[ptshamrock]

me too wants do buy Goldmoney against bTC! please pm

[kgo]

Oh, and btw, I just came across this:

http://goldstarbullion.com/

Welcome to GoldStarBullion.com! We are proud to be the first internet bullion dealer that accepts only bitcoin in trade.

Wow - that's a great find!  Thanks!  Any idea what their markup is? 

They're priced really competitive.  And friendly.  I suggest you just ask.  There's contact info on the website, or it's TraderSteve in these parts.

[flix]

Very interesting interview with GoldMoney founder James Turk:

James Turk: Gold Is Our Defense Against the Fiat Currency Graveyard
http://www.chrismartenson.com/blog/james-turk-gold-our-defense-against-fiat-currency-graveyard/60423

James explains why he expects:

*The US Government to raise the debt ceiling in August, which will require the Federal Reserve to print more money in order to soak up the new debt, sending gold and silver prices much higher this summer.
*Holders of fiat currencies to experience increasing losses in the purchasing power of their wealth; contrary to those who hold precious metals, who will see the reverse.
*This pattern of currency devaluation to be similar to the many other examples seen throughout monetary history. In short, the “unthinkable” event of a dollar collapse is a much more probable event than most consider.
*Precious metals to be an excellent vehicle for preserving purchasing power through this next transition, and whatever future currency emerges, their historic role as money to be restored.
*The end of the bull market in precious metals is years away. We’ll know its ending when holders of PMs begin trading them for other assets (e.g. property, securities) that have become overly undervalued.

[imanikin]

Look forward to any future business with this trustworthy trading partner! Thank you! 

The same goes for imanikin. Fast and smooth. Looking forward to future trades.

Another great deal successfully completed with flix! Highly recommended trading partner! Thank you very much, flix! 

[elements]

I just went to goldmoney.com and to my surprise I found out that you cannot use the money-feature (sending and receiving goldmoney in any metal) if you reside in Germany.

To my knowledge this is new.

Does anyone have information about that, anyway to circumvent this problem and so on?

(I find this appalling btw!)

[sunnankar]

I just went to goldmoney.com and to my surprise I found out that you cannot use the money-feature (sending and receiving goldmoney in any metal) if you reside in Germany.

To my knowledge this is new.

Does anyone have information about that, anyway to circumvent this problem and so on?

(I find this appalling btw!)

I think it has to do with Money Service Business regulations in Germany. The Dutch have also given GoldMoney a lot of grief so they do not open accounts for people residing in Holland.

I suppose the hack would be to have a residential address not in Germany then you should be able to get a Full Holding and be able to send and receive payments.

[elements]

I just went to goldmoney.com and to my surprise I found out that you cannot use the money-feature (sending and receiving goldmoney in any metal) if you reside in Germany.

To my knowledge this is new.

Does anyone have information about that, anyway to circumvent this problem and so on?

(I find this appalling btw!)

I think it has to do with Money Service Business regulations in Germany. The Dutch have also given GoldMoney a lot of grief so they do not open accounts for people residing in Holland.

I suppose the hack would be to have a residential address not in Germany then you should be able to get a Full Holding and be able to send and receive payments.

Well, I thought of that, too. But unfortunately I won't be able to pay a second rent
in an eligible country just to open a goldmoney account

So once again the people are getting screwed...what a surprise!

[sunnankar]

Well, I thought of that, too. But unfortunately I won't be able to pay a second rent
in an eligible country just to open a goldmoney account

So once again the people are getting screwed...what a surprise!

Well, I doubt you would have to pay a second rent. Perhaps you have a friend or family member that would let you move in and they might even only charge you to split the utilities which you would put in your name for a few months or you could have a bank or brokerage account send your statements there or better yet, both.

[flix]

Now there's two contenders for BTC Amazon:

http://www.bitcoinz.ca/
vs.
https://bitcoinworldmarket.com

I love how fast things move in this world!

[cvicisso]

For those who have PM'd me... sorry for the delay in responding.  Unfortunately, BOTH of my mining rigs went down HARD right before I went on an out-of-town vacation.  Not sure what the deal is, but it was major.  Neither MB will boot (or anything) now.  When I tried restarting the first one, there was a loud POP! in the PSU  followed by a familiar acrid smell of something electrical that just sh!t the bed.  I unplugged it, and haven't gotten back around to trouble-shooting.

My main concern right now is: HOW THE HELL DO I GET THE BTCs THAT WERE ALREADY ACCUMULATED??!  I pulled the HD and am able to run the Bitcoin program on another computer, but it doesn't show any transactions.  I've got about 10 BTC in there somewhere... is there any way to salvage them or are they gone forever? 

[fm1234]

8. EXCHANGES, CARD PROVIDERS, MONEY SERVICE BUSINESSES AND CASINOS
Unless permission is expressly given by GoldMoney, a Holding may not be used to operate a money service business or online casino, enable the funding of a debit card or to complete an exchange between goldgrams/silver ounces/platinum grams/palladium grams and other e-currencies. Any violation of this provision will result in the immediate closing of a customer's Holding.

(from here)

Mind yourselves.   If you use GM you already know they're pretty anal about details.   


Frank

[sunnankar]

8. EXCHANGES, CARD PROVIDERS, MONEY SERVICE BUSINESSES AND CASINOS
Unless permission is expressly given by GoldMoney, a Holding may not be used to operate a money service business or online casino, enable the funding of a debit card or to complete an exchange between goldgrams/silver ounces/platinum grams/palladium grams and other e-currencies. Any violation of this provision will result in the immediate closing of a customer's Holding.

(from here)

Mind yourselves.   If you use GM you already know they're pretty anal about details.   


Frank

I agree Frank to mind oneself. I talked with two of my attorneys and both concluded that bit coins, legally, do not constitute currency. There is plenty of legislation defining currency and as applied to bitcoins they are not currency. Clause 8 of the User Agreement, it appears, applies to things like Paypal, Liberty Reserve, etc. that deal with currencies.

In the case with BitCoin, the issue centers on what is a bitcoin? GoldMoney can be used to complete transactions for ebooks, mp3s and other legal transactions. There is currently no legal definition of what a bitcoin is that distinguishes it from an mp3, .html file, ebook, etc. Both attorneys think it will take years, if ever, for legislation to define it and it is currently no defined as a currency. There are currently no regulations that make bitcoins illegal. Therefore, GoldMoney can be used to complete transactions for bitcoins just like GoldMoney can be used to complete transactions for an mp3, ebook, car, cups, video games and any other legal transaction.

Now could GoldMoney arbitrarily and inappropriately interpret clause 8 in an over broad way to include bitcoins as currency? Sure. Will they? Who knows but probably not if they have competent legal counsel. But if we know one thing about markets it is that if GoldMoney were to do so then the markets would just 'route around' GoldMoney.

[flix]

8. EXCHANGES, CARD PROVIDERS, MONEY SERVICE BUSINESSES AND CASINOS
Unless permission is expressly given by GoldMoney, a Holding may not be used to operate a money service business or online casino, enable the funding of a debit card or to complete an exchange between goldgrams/silver ounces/platinum grams/palladium grams and other e-currencies. Any violation of this provision will result in the immediate closing of a customer's Holding.

(from here)

Frank

Annoying. They won't develop a market for their DGC themselves and at the same time won't allow e-currency exchange so that their customers can spend their gold. I guess they're not interested in Goldmoney as a medium of exchange, only as a store of value.

Oh well. I won't be making any more transactions until I've checked with them. Don't want my account closed.

[flix]

8. EXCHANGES, CARD PROVIDERS, MONEY SERVICE BUSINESSES AND CASINOS
Unless permission is expressly given by GoldMoney.....

Of course the above is something to keep in mind for anyone who runs an exchange.

[fm1234]

posted by sunnakar:

I agree Frank to mind oneself. I talked with two of my attorneys and both concluded that bit coins, legally, do not constitute currency. There is plenty of legislation defining currency and as applied to bitcoins they are not currency. Clause 8 of the User Agreement, it appears, applies to things like Paypal, Liberty Reserve, etc. that deal with currencies.

In the case with BitCoin, the issue centers on what is a bitcoin? GoldMoney can be used to complete transactions for ebooks, mp3s and other legal transactions. There is currently no legal definition of what a bitcoin is that distinguishes it from an mp3, .html file, ebook, etc.

Now could GoldMoney arbitrarily and inappropriately interpret clause 8 in an over broad way to include bitcoins as currency? Sure. Will they? Who knows but probably not if they have competent legal counsel. But if we know one thing about markets it is that if GoldMoney were to do so then the markets would just 'route around' GoldMoney.

I can't believe all this came from just two attorneys -- one would think it would require a whole team to come up with such twisted logic.   Please consider reality, vs. legality, as the basis of your actions:

1) Bitcoin is, manifestly and very very obviously, an e-currency by any common interpretation of that term.   GoldMoney would be perfectly within the scope of its user agreement to start policing Bitcoin exchanges, and almost certainly will if they notice any volume of it happening -- just as they have done again and again in the past, with PayPal, e-gold, Liberty Reserve, etc.   
 
2) As a private company, GoldMoney is not required to come up with any "legal definition" of e-currency, or to justify any other basis of a right-of-exclusion clause.  If your attorneys were worth anything as attorneys, they'd surely tell you this instead of insinuating that you'll get around it through some kind of legal definition loophole, or even that there could be legal consequences for GM if they interfere with Bitcoin transactions (eg. "...Will they? ... probably not if they have competent legal counsel.")   

I'm not actually trying to stop anyone from doing this -- simply pointing it out, in case you happen to be new to GoldMoney you might want to watch out for their occasionally unilateral policy enforcement. 


Frank