Anyway to block miners in China?

[ProfMac]

Higher difficulty means more protection for the network.

As the diffculty increases, less individuals get involved in Bitcoin mining and it turns into a corporate venture. In theory this should protect the network, but it turns Bitcoin into a centralized operation. When these groups amass a significant amount of Bitcoin, they can control the exchange side of things. In the end, we get the same problems we are having with fiat currency.

For $7.80 you can buy a chip with about 800 MH/s capability.  Are you unable to get involved at this level?

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[DeathAndTaxes]

They might stay away from mining.  I don't see a reason why they would stay away from bitcoin as a virtual currency to buy coffee or computers.

If that's the case, Bitcoin will continue to be marginalized.

Then no cryptocurrency will ever be successful.  The idea that 100% of users will be miners is a dubious pipe dream.  Did 100% of gold owners miner their own gold from their own mine, using their own mining equipment.  The number of miners in nominal terms may increase but the miners as a % of user base will continue to decline.  There is never going to be a cryptocurrency with 20,000,000 miners for example.  It just isn't going to happen.  Time, resources, skill, risk appetite, and finite reward will constrain the number of miners.

If cryptocurrencies can't grow beyond a base of miners well then the whole experiment (not just Bitcoin but all derivatives as well) never had a chance of success anymore than if the only people using Personal Computers were people with the equipment and skill to build one by hand.

[Bicknellski]

Higher difficulty means more protection for the network.

As the diffculty increases, less individuals get involved in Bitcoin mining and it turns into a corporate venture. In theory this should protect the network, but it turns Bitcoin into a centralized operation. When these groups amass a significant amount of Bitcoin, they can control the exchange side of things. In the end, we get the same problems we are having with fiat currency.

Fewer individuals will start or continue to mine... that is why you would be better off pooling resources into collectives. Why do you want CONTROLS put in place?

Ways to fight against corporate control.

NO LAWS, CENTRAL BODIES OR RULES that will eventually be manipulated by the same companies you want to control.
OPEN SOURCE HARDWARE AND SOFTWARE.
COLLECTIVES sharing vast resources of 1000s of people.

[PeZ]

Higher difficulty means more protection for the network.

As the diffculty increases, less individuals get involved in Bitcoin mining and it turns into a corporate venture. In theory this should protect the network, but it turns Bitcoin into a centralized operation. When these groups amass a significant amount of Bitcoin, they can control the exchange side of things. In the end, we get the same problems we are having with fiat currency.

For $7.80 you can buy a chip with about 800 MH/s capability.  Are you unable to get involved at this level?

And for an additional $200 you can get a populated board to put that chip on.

And you'll be making $2/day in the short term and never makes your investment back.

[Stephen Gornick]

As the diffculty increases, less individuals get involved in Bitcoin mining and it turns into a corporate venture.

I remember when CPU miners were whining that GPUs meant the end of bitcoin due to the "home user" being shut out of mining.  

Remember one thing.  Miners work for those who buy the bitcoins.   The least efficient workers (i.e., power-hungy GPU miners) are being displaced with more efficient workers (ASICs).

This was telegraphed well in advance, and getting to this point actually took much longer than many of us expected.  But progress from here (i.e, difficulty continues shooting up) is right on cue:



If you are still GPU mining on bitcoin, please do not be deluded into thinking this is something that will blow over.  If you haven't done so already, prepare to shut down your GPU rigs -- and the sooner the better.

As far as blocking mined blocks based on geographic area, Bitcoin was architected to protect against this type of corruption.  Miners relay their mined blocks to their peers, so every peer would need to reject an IP range.   That would never happen.

[PeZ]

Then no cryptocurrency will ever be successful.

It's an evolutionary process. Bitcoin will die and a better cryptocurrency will be created.

[Stephen Gornick]

Then no cryptocurrency will ever be successful.

It's an evolutionary process. Bitcoin will die and a better cryptocurrency will be created.

OK, now it's apparent this was just trolling.

[k9quaint]

After reading this thread, I wish Bitcoin would ban blue people.

[lazydna]

bitcoin miners are basically dead.
there is no way for any individual to profit from it aside from spending, at this moment, tens and thousands of dollars to merely compete.
this is a phase of adjustment and we'll see how this goes, but the only refuge at the moment is litecoin.

[ProfMac]

Higher difficulty means more protection for the network.

As the diffculty increases, less individuals get involved in Bitcoin mining and it turns into a corporate venture. In theory this should protect the network, but it turns Bitcoin into a centralized operation. When these groups amass a significant amount of Bitcoin, they can control the exchange side of things. In the end, we get the same problems we are having with fiat currency.

For $7.80 you can buy a chip with about 800 MH/s capability.  Are you unable to get involved at this level?

And for an additional $200 you can get a populated board to put that chip on.

And you'll be making $2/day in the short term and never makes your investment back.

For $75 I can produce a 1st board of a design run that will use that chip.  Later boards should drop to about $20.

[Smidge]

Ya'll got trolled.

...or this forum is diving into new depths of idiocy.

I feel trolled after reading this... I really do

Anyway, this thread has been likely created by someone whos GPU mining operation is getting less profitable by the hour.

Those guys should switch to the next most promising Altcoin, check out this thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=224383.0

[goxed]

Eventually someone will bring up this topic, so why not just start here...

If AsicMiner will add 800-1000TH to mining, then the individual's small machines will be useless. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=247168.msg2622243#msg2622243

When this happens, will anyone think it is justifiable to block mining power from China? Will this cause too much collateral damage since there are so many individual miners in China as well?

If it is justifiable, then how to do it technically or what is the process to seek consensus?

Hold on cowboy,

let's get an open-source, crowd sourced, asic developed instead, and convince intel or glofo to manufacture it for us. I donot see any other means to stop the AM tsunami.

[rovchris]

Higher difficulty means more protection for the network.

As the diffculty increases, less individuals get involved in Bitcoin mining and it turns into a corporate venture. In theory this should protect the network, but it turns Bitcoin into a centralized operation. When these groups amass a significant amount of Bitcoin, they can control the exchange side of things. In the end, we get the same problems we are having with fiat currency.

This is 100% correct.

There is no difference between central banks and massive centralised "corporate" mining operations. (Technically there is a difference - but to the man on the street their is none) ASICS's have driven DOWN the price of Bitcoins.

Looking at ASICMiners charts it looked as though they used to use mining pools to spread some of the hashing power - now they mine solo.

http://www.asicminercharts.com/

Their infrastructure is an absolute joke - no resilience - no redundancy - Look at the massive swings in their network hashing power - What are their disaster recovery plans - I would hazzard a guess and say none. The chances of them having another data centre mirroring their primary with the equivalent number of ASICS is zero - because they would just mine with those as well. All they care about is filling their pockets as quickly as possible.

If they go offline because of a Data Centre fire then what?

Zero commitment to ensuring the stability of bitcoin - recently there have been massive variations in transaction times due to ASICminer.

They have gone completely against the ethos of Bitcoin.

If hardware can not be bought off the shelf for next day delivery then it just makes the entire mining game and ELITIST business just like the banks.

AVALON mining with customers fully paid hardware driving up the difficulty then making all kinds of bullshit excuses just so they can fully "rape" their customers equipment.

BFL don't even start me on those comedians - honestly I have never seen such a level of incompetence in my entire life - literally stringing their customers along with the 2 week story.

If asics had been rolled out in a fair and even manner then it would be slightly different. But the case is this I would estimate that 70% - 80% of the network hashing power is asics - considering fewer than 10% of miners actually have them does not make for a level playing field, causes resentment and hence the rise of the ALT scrypt coins.

[mupartee]

If someone is late to the mining game, it doesn't mean the concept of a digital currency is a lost cause, it just means that they lost their chance to be among the early adopters who got the highest return on their investment. Bitcoin is an idea, and a new medium of exchange bypassing the negative ROI that is fiat currency. Losing interest in bitcoin because the ability to mine for yourself is becoming less profitable, is like saying that people wouldn't use or invest in gold because they lost their chance to start a gold mining company.
Not to mention the fact that if it does increase in popularity and make its own niche into mainstream usage, then some of the predictions of increase in value (that are fairly well researched and thought out such as this for example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7LQu-eIOO0) it would still give people who are buying and using them now, quite a good ROI in the long run, even if the true value 5 years from now falls well short of some of these predictions...

[johnyj]

Don't worry, BFL will catch up later with 2PH, so far they just warmed up

[goxed]

Don't worry, BFL will catch up later with 2PH, so far they just warmed up

Any source? or is it just a conjecture?

[TsuyokuNaritai]

Don't worry, BFL will catch up later with 2PH, so far they just warmed up

Any source? or is it just a conjecture?

I think he was joking. BFL couldn't catch a cold.

Unless "later" means delivered around 2140, just in time to mine the last satoshi.

[rovchris]

Don't worry, BFL will catch up later with 2PH, so far they just warmed up

Any source? or is it just a conjecture?

This is an example of the BFL 2 week delay that keeps adding up until it reaches 18 months past the time the last satoshi is mined.

[Soros Shorts]

If hardware can not be bought off the shelf for next day delivery then it just makes the entire mining game and ELITIST business just like the banks.

And if hardware could be bought off the shelf for next day delivery, then most people would not bother to mine because they would only be earning pennies on top of ROI.

Don't worry though, the day will come when ASICs become a readily available commodity. Once that happens people will be spending their resources searching for other things, such as cheap 0.02 cent/Kwh electricity.

[rovchris]

If hardware can not be bought off the shelf for next day delivery then it just makes the entire mining game and ELITIST business just like the banks.

And if hardware could be bought off the shelf for next day delivery, then most people would not bother to mine because they would only be earning pennies on top of ROI.

Don't worry though, the day will come when ASICs become a readily available commodity. Once that happens people will be spending their resources searching for other things, such as cheap 0.02 cent/Kwh electricity.

That argument is so flawed - so no one was mining bitcoins until ASICS became available? So what were people mining with back in 2008? I think you will find a great deal more people were mining Bitcoins with off the shelf hardware than they were with ASICS for the past 5 years.

When ASICs become readily available you will have to spend $100,000 on hardware just to have any kind of decent profit. I don't know many people accept for large businesses that will throw $100,000 at hardware so kind of putting it in the elitist territory.