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Author Topic: Tips - for gamblers  (Read 1395 times)
bitlotto
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BitLotto - best odds + best payouts + cheat-proof


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June 30, 2011, 05:41:20 PM
 #1

(Maybe this can become a sticky. I'll try being as unbiased as I can as I run a lottery myself. I'm open to suggestions or things I could add/change. Dumb or not?)

Due to the psuedo-anonymous nature of Bitcoin and the ease at which games can be set up, Bitcoin gambling can be more at risk of quick scams.

Here are some things to consider when sending your hard earned BTC someone's way:

Is it new?
-The newer something is, the more discretion is needed. Scams usually come and go fast. With time, the reputable gambling sites will develop trust and players. Be suspicious of claims of big payouts when they have just begun.

Where does the random number come from?
-Random numbers can sometimes be faked. Some operators will use random numbers on their own computer legitimately. Others not. This is something to consider as the operator of the gambling site could be playing their own game. Also: getting a random number from somewhere else such as random.org doesn't really add anything unless it can be verified by others and they get the same numbers

How is the winner determined?
-Pyramid style games depend on others joining after you. Usually payments all go the same address and can be verified with blockexplorer.com. This only works however if everyone only sends payment using Bitcoin software on their own computer. Lottery style lotteries usually pick from a list of entries. How the winner is chosen is important. Can the list be checked somehow? Does the list also list the numbers for each ticket prior to the draw?

Is the operator a "flight risk"?
-some will open a Bitcoin gambling site with the hope of getting a big payout and then leave. Some pyramid scams operate such that they provide this interesting new idea then leave when people have paid. Others could be waiting to have a large sum in their hands then leave. It is also something to consider depending on how much money you "invest".

Does the game give you "deja vu"?
-often scams look a like. If it site/description looks like other scams it could be!

Bitcoin gambling can be fun but like all gambling it also has risks. Try to be aware of where those risks are. Pretty much any game can be played by the owner. By thinking about the operator playing you can see the areas where cheating can occur. Each area that can be cheated adds to the total risk. Choose what's comfortable to you.
Play safe!  Wink

*Next Draw Feb 1*  BitLotto: monthly raffle (0.25 BTC per ticket) Completely transparent and impossible to manipulate who wins. TOR
TOR2WEB
Donations to: 1JQdiQsjhV2uJ4Y8HFtdqteJsZhv835a8J are appreciated.
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June 30, 2011, 05:49:16 PM
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Good advice. For random numbers, I suggest using transaction hashes or something else that is publicly visible to everyone participating in the game.

tysat
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June 30, 2011, 06:10:58 PM
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The best solution for random numbers (someone else came up with this, can't remember who):

Generate the random numbers before any game/contest/etc starts.  Hash the numbers with a string and post the hash afterwards.  After the game/contest/etc is over post what you used to hash (how you formatted the numbers and string) so people can verify that the hash is the same.  This is an easy way to prove you are not changing numbers.

Probably best to not participate in any random number gamble that isn't like this, or isn't based off of something that is completely random (has of a future block or something similar).
bitlotto
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June 30, 2011, 06:15:51 PM
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The best solution for random numbers (someone else came up with this, can't remember who):

Generate the random numbers before any game/contest/etc starts.  Hash the numbers with a string and post the hash afterwards.  After the game/contest/etc is over post what you used to hash (how you formatted the numbers and string) so people can verify that the hash is the same.  This is an easy way to prove you are not changing numbers.

Probably best to not participate in any random number gamble that isn't like this, or isn't based off of something that is completely random (has of a future block or something similar).
I used to do something similar. That doesn't prevent the operator from cheating though. Future block hashes would work if being able to be manipulated by a miner is ok. For most it's probably ok, again, it all depends on the amount at stake and what people are ok with. I moved to using "real world" lottery numbers as an input to the hash to make it impossible.

*Next Draw Feb 1*  BitLotto: monthly raffle (0.25 BTC per ticket) Completely transparent and impossible to manipulate who wins. TOR
TOR2WEB
Donations to: 1JQdiQsjhV2uJ4Y8HFtdqteJsZhv835a8J are appreciated.
tysat
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June 30, 2011, 08:00:11 PM
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The best solution for random numbers (someone else came up with this, can't remember who):

Generate the random numbers before any game/contest/etc starts.  Hash the numbers with a string and post the hash afterwards.  After the game/contest/etc is over post what you used to hash (how you formatted the numbers and string) so people can verify that the hash is the same.  This is an easy way to prove you are not changing numbers.

Probably best to not participate in any random number gamble that isn't like this, or isn't based off of something that is completely random (has of a future block or something similar).
I used to do something similar. That doesn't prevent the operator from cheating though. Future block hashes would work if being able to be manipulated by a miner is ok. For most it's probably ok, again, it all depends on the amount at stake and what people are ok with. I moved to using "real world" lottery numbers as an input to the hash to make it impossible.

Yup, the real world lotto numbers was a great addition.

Also, I think we should get this thread stickied.
cdnbcguy
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July 03, 2011, 05:21:06 AM
 #6

Here's a tip for gamblers - do not gamble. At the very best, it's an underlay, that is, you are inadequately compensated for the risk you take. At worst, you are just plain cheated.


Annona ad! Please keep in mind that there is nothing wrong with Bitcoin itself. All it's scandals are caused by wonky websites and sleazy people exploiting it. The light attracts bugs.

When all this bullshit drys up and blows away, Bitcoin will be stronger than ever.
bitlotto
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BitLotto - best odds + best payouts + cheat-proof


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July 04, 2011, 10:11:36 PM
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Here's a tip for gamblers - do not gamble. At the very best, it's an underlay, that is, you are inadequately compensated for the risk you take. At worst, you are just plain cheated.
Sure, for some. Some people have fun gambling. It's all in what you like. I like raffle lotteries because I think you are adequately compensated. One person gets a big win and they didn't really risk much. The odds scale perfectly for what you are expected to get in return. I bet if you won BitLotto you wouldn't feel cheated!  Wink

*Next Draw Feb 1*  BitLotto: monthly raffle (0.25 BTC per ticket) Completely transparent and impossible to manipulate who wins. TOR
TOR2WEB
Donations to: 1JQdiQsjhV2uJ4Y8HFtdqteJsZhv835a8J are appreciated.
geek-trader
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July 04, 2011, 10:28:34 PM
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Here's a tip for gamblers - do not gamble. At the very best, it's an underlay, that is, you are inadequately compensated for the risk you take. At worst, you are just plain cheated.



Gambling is fun.  If I play Video Poker for 30 minutes, and lose .25 BTC, I consider that an entertainment expense.  And if I come out ahead, hey, great!

Make 1 deposit and earn BTC for life! http://bitcoinpyramid.com/r/345
Play my FREE HTML5 games at: http://magigames.org  BTC donations accepted.
bitbetter
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July 05, 2011, 09:16:38 AM
 #9

Is it new?

Where does the random number come from?

How is the winner determined?

Is the operator a "flight risk"?

Does the game give you "deja vu"?


Bitcoin gambling can be fun but like all gambling it also has risks. Try to be aware of where those risks are. Pretty much any game can be played by the owner. By thinking about the operator playing you can see the areas where cheating can occur. Each area that can be cheated adds to the total risk. Choose what's comfortable to you.
Play safe!  Wink

I agree with all of this. This is why I'm creating a site where instead of having some unknown robot run these games, you have the community members running the games, or hosts. This way, you can see the terms of the game clearly, whether or not the host will be actually making money from the game and whether or not they appear legitimate. If anyone is caught cheating or tries to run off with the BTC, the site insures the winnings. So if the host doesn't pay, WE will honor the bet. This is kinda cool though, because if you want to try and make some money running a poker game you can do that, without having to pay anyone for the server space or anything else. You can also organize tournaments so that you can actually have pretty decent sized pots.

This is a personal project for me that I'm hoping will help lend legitimacy to the BitCoin merchant network. I realize that table games and board games don't go a long way to establish this, however it is really more about the idea of a community inspired by my love of networking. If anyone has ideas or anything, please let me know. If you wanna see what I've got up so far, check bitbetter.org.

  BitBetter | where your BitCoins are fun
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