Closed

[atomium]

Closed

[N12]

They are selling 200k BTC. Wonder where they got the other 100k.

[atomium]

here is their company,

http://winklevosscapital.com/

Looks like they have 4 investments so far, half of which are bitcoin related.

[xxjs]

It is an interesting development. We have speculated that derivates will not be popular, because as opposed to other types of assets, it is practical and easy to just own the bitcoins. Now we will have the answer to that.

[Rampion]

They are actually selling worthless toilet paper. With that kind of derivative products, which border line the outright scam, the big investment banks have been manipulating the price of gold and silver for years. It looks like we have two new wannabe market maker on the block.

[atomium]

I agree with this point, but maybe they are doing it for the good of bitcoin, raise more capital to fund more bitcoin startups.

http://techcrunch.com/2013/07/01/cameron-and-tyler-winklevoss-file-for-20-million-ipo-of-their-bitcoin-trust/

[myself]

making money from 9 to 5 time to sleep and have fun .... i trade that paper anytime

[phoenix1]

Looks like they are selling out. It's going to raise a lot of new regulatory issues as it would be a BTC tracking product that falls under the SEC jurisdiction. That is a whole new territory. The NAV of the trust would be based on non SEC regulated exchange prices ( Gox, Bitstamp ect). Things start to get blurred very quickly

They even mention this :

(Termination events include) ...

the Trust is determined to be a “money transmitter” under the regulations promulgated by FinCEN under the authority of the US Bank Secrecy Act and is required to comply with certain FinCEN regulations thereunder, and the Trust receives notice from the Sponsor that, because of that determination, termination of the Trust is advisable;

I dont think this IPO will be approved overnight ...

They are effectively receiving USD from clients in exchange for a BTC tracker ... is that money transmitting ? Sounds pretty close to me.

[humanitee]

Looks like they are selling out. It's going to raise a lot of new regulatory issues as it would be a BTC tracking product that falls under the SEC jurisdiction. That is a whole new territory. The NAV of the trust would be based on non SEC regulated exchange prices ( Gox, Bitstamp ect). Things start to get blurred very quickly

They even mention this :

(Termination events include) ...

the Trust is determined to be a “money transmitter” under the regulations promulgated by FinCEN under the authority of the US Bank Secrecy Act and is required to comply with certain FinCEN regulations thereunder, and the Trust receives notice from the Sponsor that, because of that determination, termination of the Trust is advisable;

I dont think this IPO will be approved overnight ...

They are effectively receiving USD from clients in exchange for a BTC tracker ... is that money transmitting ? Sounds pretty close to me.

I'll take FUD for $500, Alex.

[phoenix1]

Looks like they are selling out. It's going to raise a lot of new regulatory issues as it would be a BTC tracking product that falls under the SEC jurisdiction. That is a whole new territory. The NAV of the trust would be based on non SEC regulated exchange prices ( Gox, Bitstamp ect). Things start to get blurred very quickly

They even mention this :

(Termination events include) ...

the Trust is determined to be a “money transmitter” under the regulations promulgated by FinCEN under the authority of the US Bank Secrecy Act and is required to comply with certain FinCEN regulations thereunder, and the Trust receives notice from the Sponsor that, because of that determination, termination of the Trust is advisable;

I dont think this IPO will be approved overnight ...

They are effectively receiving USD from clients in exchange for a BTC tracker ... is that money transmitting ? Sounds pretty close to me.

I'll take FUD for $500, Alex.

Just expressing my opinion ... feel free to express you own if you have one
Have you even bothered to look at the filing ?

[chufchuf]

They are selling 200k BTC. Wonder where they got the other 100k.

Typical bear reaction:

Oh noes no liquidity at MtGox, BTC is heading for 0!

Oh noes there's liquidity now but that's only because floodgates open everyone can buy BTC because the Winklevosses are dumping so BTC is going to 0 even though the Fund has to keep buying BTC the more people invest in it but I'm still making sense!

[humanitee]

Just expressing my opinion ... feel free to express you own if you have one
Have you even bothered to look at the filing ?

Of course.

[phoenix1]

Just expressing my opinion ... feel free to express you own if you have one
Have you even bothered to look at the filing ?

Of course.

And your opinion is ?

[humanitee]

And your opinion is ?

Looks to me like they are using their Bitcoin capital to open a Bitcoin business.

[atomium]

And your opinion is ?

Looks to me like they are using their Bitcoin capital to open a Bitcoin business.

the idea is to help fund bitcoin startups, they have done so with bitinstant, not sure who else they have funded besides them.

[phoenix1]

And your opinion is ?

Looks to me like they are using their Bitcoin capital to open a Bitcoin business.

'Selling out' was perhaps the wrong phrase ... I meant to infer that they were raising cash against their existing BTC as opposed to buying in the market with funds raised and issuing a tracker against those BTC . For what purpose I have no idea ... could very well be to fund BTC businesses.
Regardless, they are effectively cashing out their BTC whatever way you look at it ...

[ArticMine]

This is going to be very interesting to watch. Just the speculation on whether or not the SEC will approve this as it goes back and forth will cause the the BTC/USD exchange rate to move about all over the place creating all sorts of opportunities for both profit and loss.  

If it does get approved then the real fun will begin. With the opportunity to "short" the paper Bitcoin, trading BTC from your brokerage account and the Wall Street players getting into the act. Buying the units low and then pumping them to their retail investors a la Facebook maybe? If this does get approved and once the dust settles this can actually be bullish for Bitcoin.

[DeathAndTaxes]

What do you guys think this will do to the price? They are issuing "paper" bitcoins based on their shares

http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2013/07/01/winklevoss-twins-file-to-launch-bitcoin-exchange-traded-product/

They aren't issuing "paper Bitcoins" in the sense that they aren't backed by anything.  The trust will hold Bitcoins and issue shares to represent those.  Each share is worth 0.2 BTC and the trust will hold 0.2 BTC for each share outstanding.  The trust can't issue shares to represent more then BTC it actually has.  If hypothetically the fund was very popular and the fund wanted to issue more shares they are required to obtain 10K BTC (50K shares) before adding 50K new shares for trading.

[humanitee]

And your opinion is ?

Looks to me like they are using their Bitcoin capital to open a Bitcoin business.

'Selling out' was perhaps the wrong phrase ... I meant to infer that they were raising cash against their existing BTC as opposed to buying in the market with funds raised and issuing a tracker against those BTC . For what purpose I have no idea ... could very well be to fund BTC businesses.

From my understanding the amount of shares can scale based on demand. If they sell out they will go to the market and buy more, thus raising the price. They can't issue more paper than there are Bitcoin - it's easy to know how many are in existence. This is the easiest way I've seen for large investors to get money into Bitcoin. Hell, at the rate things are going it might be the only way to get money into Bitcoin  .

[inbox]

here is their company,

http://winklevosscapital.com/

Looks like they have 4 investments so far, half of which are bitcoin related.

The quote on their homepage is exact copy of:

About — I/O Capital Partners
iocap.net/about/‎
"We partner with a select number of early stage companies to provide not just investment, but a full service approach to driving growth."