THE TRUTH: Can someone withdraw fiat money from MTGOX?

[S3052]

2. Based on the above, I believe that the leadership days of MtGox are counted. As I looked today , bitstamp is on track to overtake MtGox as market leader soon. They already are 50% of MtGox today. Providing transparency on my side, I have just cancelled all my USD withdrawals , converted into BTC and transferred to bitstamp, bitfinex or cold wallet. By the way, so far I found bitfinex trustworthy as I had smooth experiences both for trading and USD withdrawals. It seems that others have done the same recently and that may be the reason why the bitstamp /  MtGox spread is narrowing. MtGox is drained....

Mt.Gox has made it abundantly apparent that it has poor leadership, and poor work ethic. 

this is really true... Unfortunately for bitcoin.
But looking forward , other exchanges will take over the lead. but they will need to show much better customer service and transparency

[S3052]

Gox is still in operation? 2013 and people still try to use Gox? WTF?

It has been reliable thus far, I had never a serious issue and they had lowest fees. But now, things change and this is why I move away.

[zby]

Gox is still in operation? 2013 and people still try to use Gox? WTF?

It has been reliable thus far, I had never a serious issue and they had lowest fees. But now, things change and this is why I move away.

Just cuz you had a few lucky dice rolls does not mean you were smart to ignore the clear signs.

And your trade is future telling?

face palm...

As incompetent as they are they are still better than bitomat, bitcoinica, TradeHill, that german exchange that had funds frozen a few months ago or BitMarket.  I also suspect that Bitstam or btc-e were just lucky so far.  So yeah MtGox is incompetent - but so are its competitors - choose your poison.  At least you can trade in volumes on MtGox.

[Nagle]

At least you can trade in volumes on MtGox.

Not really. You can have the illusion that you're trading. If you don't get paid, you didn't really trade.

[zeroblock]

At least you can trade in volumes on MtGox.

Not really. You can have the illusion that you're trading. If you don't get paid, you didn't really trade.

My point exactly.  Its not an exchange. 

[S3052]

At least you can trade in volumes on MtGox.

Not really. You can have the illusion that you're trading. If you don't get paid, you didn't really trade.

My point exactly.  Its not an exchange. 

trading itself works reasonably well, but even the trading process is outdated.
on almost all brokers worldwide you have stop loss, stop buy, OCO, etc. trading options and on gox there is still only buy and sell possible.
I think it is (1) lack of innovation and (2) terrible customer service and management that let them down

[zby]

At least you can trade in volumes on MtGox.

Not really. You can have the illusion that you're trading. If you don't get paid, you didn't really trade.

My point exactly.  Its not an exchange. 

It used to work - just like Bitstam happens to work now.  It is all very risky business .

[OhShei8e]

here are a couple of thoughts based on what I am observing. And thanks so much for all the great insights. Keep it coming since this clarity provides transparency to the bitcoin community.
1. Gox must have a big liquidity problem: they only process small withdrawals. While they don't process larger ones. I know from my own experience and from friends that since more than 5 weeks no withdrawal larger than 3000-5000 USD went through. Let me know if you got a larger withdrawal processed.

Gox has told us they can not cope with the current volume. IMHO they simply do not have the infrastructure for large payouts at the moment. So people have to use other exchanges for bigger payout until Gox has solved the problem.

2. Based on the above, I believe that the leadership days of MtGox are counted. As I looked today , bitstamp is on track to overtake MtGox as market leader soon. They already are 50% of MtGox today.

Are you serious? Bitstamps order book seems to have less than 10% of the Gox volume. See for example:

http://mtgoxlive.com/orders
https://www.bitstamp.net/market/order_book/

It seems that others have done the same recently and that may be the reason why the bitstamp /  MtGox spread is narrowing. MtGox is drained....

Sorry, but this is illogical. If Gox would be "drained" the price on Gox would be at multiples of the price on Bitstamp and the Gox order book should be thinned. I do not see such a development. Price narrowing means that the market is still intact, not that Gox has dried. There are obviously enough people who sell Bitcoins on Gox. Nothing has happened yet.

3. As a consequence, Digital Currency Research will now look into starting to display bitstamp charts. That said, we can reassure subscribers that we are already monitoring bitstamp and the forecast is the same.

Just to be sure: From now on you will cover Bitstamp, which is currently mainly used for prompt payouts and which has a market depth which is only a fraction of the total market?

I see no good reason for this shift. As long as the market trusts in Gox and trading operates normally, Gox is the market leader because there is the most volume even if it is not traded. Not to trade is also a decision of market participants. Currently the trading volume on Bitstamp is quite high, but there stays no money on the platform. No one left money on Bitstamp. People cash out immediately.

It would help if bitstamp prices would be available soon as live charts on Sierra chart and trading view . Perhaps someone could help on this front.[/color]

Gox is a multi-currency trading platform with a very powerful and secure API which allows many third-party services. All functions are available through this API. I do not have to use a cumbersome web interface or I can write my own. I'm very, very skeptical with Bitstamp. Bitstamp is technically light years behind Gox. They have only a very rudimentary (and unsafe) API. This would throw us back at least two years. When I see this API I feel like 2011. I can not imagine that many people will use Bitstamp for trading. Bitstamp is only for people who need money fast. People throw their coins in and cash out. This is their only business. The order book is as good as empty all the time on Bitstamp. At the moment they have an important function, because there are no major payouts on Gox. But without Gox Bitstamp (and the Bitcoin) becomes worthless.

[OhShei8e]

trading itself works reasonably well, but even the trading process is outdated.
on almost all brokers worldwide you have stop loss, stop buy, OCO, etc. trading options and on gox there is still only buy and sell possible.

They have a well-developed and reliable API and you can do anything with it. There are countless powerful tradebots. Free and commercial in each taste.

They have rewritten their (multi currency) trade engine to eliminate the lags and many more. Technically, they are right at the front.
Gox is not a web developer.

[S3052]

3. As a consequence, Digital Currency Research will now look into starting to display bitstamp charts. That said, we can reassure subscribers that we are already monitoring bitstamp and the forecast is the same.

Just to be sure: From now on you will cover Bitstamp, which is currently mainly used for prompt payouts and which has a market depth which is only a fraction of the total market?

Thanks for your comments: To clarify:

1) We keep using MtGox for the technical analysis as long as they remain number 1
2) We monitor the next largest exchange in parallel to be prepared for a change and also to increase the depth of our research. Currently, the number 2 exchange in trading volume is bitstamp. If others get better and overtake bitstamp, fine. We do not have relationships with any exchange and hence we can make unbiased decisions.

And.. I agree that Gox has improve the trading engine, but as long as they dont improve the versatility (stop orders, O.C.O. orders, etc) and customer service & transparency, there is a risk that they will be overtaken by other exchanges.

[zeroblock]

3. As a consequence, Digital Currency Research will now look into starting to display bitstamp charts. That said, we can reassure subscribers that we are already monitoring bitstamp and the forecast is the same.

Just to be sure: From now on you will cover Bitstamp, which is currently mainly used for prompt payouts and which has a market depth which is only a fraction of the total market?

Thanks for your comments: To clarify:

1) We keep using MtGox for the technical analysis as long as they remain number 1
2) We monitor the next largest exchange in parallel to be prepared for a change and also to increase the depth of our research. Currently, the number 2 exchange in trading volume is bitstamp. If others get better and overtake bitstamp, fine. We do not have relationships with any exchange and hence we can make unbiased decisions.

And.. I agree that Gox has improve the trading engine, but as long as they dont improve the versatility (stop orders, O.C.O. orders, etc) and customer service & transparency, there is a risk that they will be overtaken by other exchanges.

I agree, we are trying to push an update soon that will have multiple exchanges because of the going concern with Gox.

[Pangia]

In the past 24 hours, MTGOX only had 24 BTC's traded in JPY.  WOW!!!!

[S3052]

and bitstamp has already almost 50% of (low) weekend volume

Market            Last       Volume (24h)   Bid   Ask   High   Low
mtgoxUSD           90.0000   9,592.67   90.48   90.50   93.10   89.00
bitstampUSD   86.0400   4,073.64   85.89   85.95   87.07   84.27

[Grinder]

2. Based on the above, I believe that the leadership days of MtGox are counted. As I looked today , bitstamp is on track to overtake MtGox as market leader soon. They already are 50% of MtGox today.

Are you serious? Bitstamps order book seems to have less than 10% of the Gox volume. See for example:

You should look more at the trade volume and less at the order book. As long as you spread out the orders over time and don't try to buy or sell 1000 BTC in one go you can trade large volumes without moving the price very much. Be aware that even though they don't tell in advance, they will require you to submit verification of your identity if you deposit or withdraw fiat frequently.

[OhShei8e]

and bitstamp has already almost 50% of (low) weekend volume

Market            Last       Volume (24h)   Bid   Ask   High   Low
mtgoxUSD           90.0000   9,592.67   90.48   90.50   93.10   89.00
bitstampUSD   86.0400   4,073.64   85.89   85.95   87.07   84.27

1. The actual volume of trade does mean nothing. It is much too low. It is perhaps a sign of stability.
2. Is crucial how much money is on a platform. You can not even sell 20,000 bitcoins on Bitstamp. It is ridiculous.
3. If people would really move from Gox to other exchanges, the other exchanges would suffer a collapse.
4. The other exchanges are technically underdeveloped. Their trading systems can not handle large volumes. They can not deal with multiple currencies. They are not prepared for permanent DDOS attacks. There is no API for merchants. Anyway they have poor APIs which makes it very difficult to port sophisticated trading systems. They are not secure. Automatic trading is difficult and uncertain on these systems.

I'm also a member of the Bitcoin Foundation. I see that the subject is no issue there. People do not worry about MtGox, because there is no reason for concern. There is no exodus. Everything is connected to MtGox. No way to change this on the fly. If MtGox would really go bankrupt, someone would buy it and continue to operate. Remember: There are enough Bitcoins to pay off all FIAT client funds on Gox. Especially if the price would rise sharply and people exchange there FIAT in Coins.

[OhShei8e]

You should look more at the trade volume and less at the order book.

I'm only look at the volume. I do not care if the volume is in the order book or in the trades. That can change at any time. But Bitstamp and others have poor volume.

[S3052]

You should look more at the trade volume and less at the order book.

I'm only look at the volume. I do not care if the volume is in the order book or in the trades. That can change at any time. But Bitstamp and others have poor volume.

bitstamp has 4.3 k BTC volume and mtgox 8.3k.
if you say bitstamp has poor volume, then mtgox also has poor volume

[OhShei8e]

You should look more at the trade volume and less at the order book.

I'm only look at the volume. I do not care if the volume is in the order book or in the trades. That can change at any time. But Bitstamp and others have poor volume.

bitstamp has 4.3 k BTC volume and mtgox 8.3k.
if you say bitstamp has poor volume, then mtgox also has poor volume

https://data.mtgox.com/api/1/BTCUSD/depth/full
https://www.bitstamp.net/api/order_book/

The main force is still with Gox. Most people currently do nothing. I assume that many people also have reserves on Gox which not appear somewhere. Particular to avoid tax payments. Do you mean all the people now permanently deposited Millions of dollars in Bitstamp? In Slovenia, with people we do not know? In this case we will see a price explosion on Gox and a demise of the price on all other platforms.

We all do not know exactly what's happening in Gox. Therefore I just do not know whether it wise to work with the most extreme assumptions. Gox has always stressed that all deposits are kept safe (maybe a little bit to safe at the moment). I really do not think Mark is working on a prison stay. I'm quite sure that in the course of the year Gox will solve this problems. In the meantime people can still use Bitstamp for bigger withdrawals.

[Grinder]

I'm only look at the volume. I do not care if the volume is in the order book or in the trades. That can change at any time. But Bitstamp and others have poor volume.

If you don't think the order book can change at any time you haven't been paying attention. The order book on MtGox is mainly there to manipulate the price. When there are large price movements a lot of those orders will disappear before being filled.

[OhShei8e]

If you don't think the order book can change at any time you haven't been paying attention. The order book on MtGox is mainly there to manipulate the price. When there are large price movements a lot of those orders will disappear before being filled.

Again: The money still remains on the platform. It is simply a lot of money on Gox. Look at the BID side. How will people get their Dollars from Gox, if you can not make large withdrawals? Not so easy huh?

One thing is certain: If there is a majority against Gox, then the price on Gox will shoot up and people have to sell cheap on other palttforms. Or Coinlab has enough money to absorb all that.

Liquidity is the key factor when it comes to the crunch. And how can you please estimate the liquidity of an exchange? Only the order book gives you an idea ​​how well the platform is filled with money.