Bitcoin Forum
January 19, 2019, 10:08:03 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 0.17.1 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: [ANN] Bitbond – Bitcoin P2P loans  (Read 23560 times)
Fugger
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 88
Merit: 10


Founder of Bitbond


View Profile WWW
July 02, 2013, 04:04:56 PM
Last edit: December 22, 2014, 10:25:34 PM by Fugger
 #1

Hello everyone,

Do you want to help make banks obsolete? Try our new service today!

We are announcing you Bitbond – a platform for Bitcoin P2P loans.

Borrow Bitcoins from the Bitcoin community
  • Complete our simple application
  • Get your credit rating done by us
  • Publish a loan request and borrow coins at great rates

Earn interest on your Bitcoins
  • Complete our quick registration
  • Place bids on laon listings and diversify your holdings
  • Watch your savings grow in a convenient dashboard

Do banking without a bank
  • 24/7 availability, worldwide

We are enthusiastic about bringing innovation to banking. Should you have any questions please feel free to ask!
Try it now: https://www.bitbond.com/

Cheers from the Bitbond Team
Made in Berlin

Edited to reflect re-branding from Bitbond.net to Bitbond
Edited to reflect TLD change from .net to .com

Bitbond - global Bitcoin peer-to-peer lending
The #unbank
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1547935683
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1547935683

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1547935683
Reply with quote  #2

1547935683
Report to moderator
1547935683
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1547935683

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1547935683
Reply with quote  #2

1547935683
Report to moderator
DiamondCardz
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1078
Merit: 1028

CryptoSamaritan - crypto-related help


View Profile WWW
July 02, 2013, 05:58:46 PM
 #2

Does the lender (purchaser of BitBonds) assume any risk with this?

CryptoSamaritan - mental health resource for crypto-related addiction/depression
Share & support - the more people we reach, the more we can help | Bitcointalk thread | Website
Fugger
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 88
Merit: 10


Founder of Bitbond


View Profile WWW
July 02, 2013, 06:11:52 PM
 #3

An issuer could default which means that you could lose some of your Bitcoins. Therefore it is a good thing to diversify by funding only small portions per Bitbond.

That's also a reason why we do an identity check and a rating. We know who the issuers are and give buyers an estimate about their creditworthiness.

Bitbond - global Bitcoin peer-to-peer lending
The #unbank
Fugger
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 88
Merit: 10


Founder of Bitbond


View Profile WWW
July 10, 2013, 08:52:01 PM
Last edit: December 22, 2014, 10:26:05 PM by Fugger
 #4

Today we have published our Bitbond Blog to keep you updated about our innovations and general developments you could find interesting. Also, we will inform you in some more detail about the security measures our site applies.

Stay tuned!

Bitbond - global Bitcoin peer-to-peer lending
The #unbank
Peter Lambert
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 756
Merit: 500

It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye


View Profile
July 10, 2013, 09:05:32 PM
 #5

Interesting. So you will be competing with btcjam for who can host the most scams?  Grin

If somebody does default on a bond, do you have a mechanism to go after the funds?

Use CoinBR to trade bitcoin stocks: CoinBR.com

The best place for betting with bitcoin: BitBet.us
Fugger
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 88
Merit: 10


Founder of Bitbond


View Profile WWW
July 10, 2013, 09:40:12 PM
 #6

Interesting. So you will be competing with btcjam for who can host the most scams?  Grin
Well, let's rather say we compete for the best site Smiley But generally speaking we should be happy about every real effort to make Bitcoin widely used in financial services. I belive that if we can establish Bitcoin not just as an asset class but also as a basis for a more sound financial system (with relevant services attached to it), it could be a huge step forward for Bitcoin to become a significant alternative to existing fiat currencies. I think that's a good goal because fiat currencies and the respective financial systems have many flaws... But that's just my view.

If somebody does default on a bond, do you have a mechanism to go after the funds?

There are two points to say about this.

1) Every issuer goes through the same rating process and is required to give us contact details and personal financial information. We validate this information manually case by case as far as possible. For German issuers we pull a real credit score which verifies name, address and date of birth and allows us to exclude applicants who are in personal bankruptcy. We will add credit bureaus from more European countries (and hopefully from other countries throughout the world) as fast as we can. This reduces the number of applicants we have but we are convinced that it also reduces the number of scams.

2) If there is a default, we do have a mechanism, but the strength depends on the country of origin of the issuer. There is a legally binding and enforcable contract between bond issuer and buyer. This is why we have much longer Terms of Use compared to many other Bitcoin related sites. There will also be updates to the Terms of Use to further improve them from a legal standpoint. We have a lawyer working on it.

If somebody defaults the claim goes to a collection agency which means that the issuer's credit score will deteriorate. This is a strong incentive to repay, but only in countries where you do have credit bureaus and collection agencies. In Western Europe this is the case, in Africa this is more difficult which is why such bonds are regarded riskier.

Happy to answer further questions.

Bitbond - global Bitcoin peer-to-peer lending
The #unbank
TradeFortress 🏕
VIP
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1092
Merit: 1023


View Profile
July 10, 2013, 10:26:16 PM
 #7

Are you aware that Bit bond was one of the the biggest scams in Bitcoin history?

It is like calling yourselves Bitcoin Savings and Trust
Fugger
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 88
Merit: 10


Founder of Bitbond


View Profile WWW
July 10, 2013, 11:33:30 PM
 #8

Are you aware that Bit bond was one of the the biggest scams in Bitcoin history?

It is like calling yourselves Bitcoin Savings and Trust

I saw it.

Bitbond.net as a name just fits our product well which is fundamentally different. Many bonds from corporates or governments are big scams and we still stick to the name "bonds" because it's a generic description regardless of quality. Of course, we work hard to do a lot better than that and maybe some day we all will succeed and Bitcoin will be a real currency alternative. I believe this largely depends on the reliability of the services we all provide. So maybe it's a good start to change the connotation of a name for the better.

Bitbond - global Bitcoin peer-to-peer lending
The #unbank
001sonkit
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 784
Merit: 1000


Casper - A failed entrepenuer who looks like Zhou


View Profile WWW
July 12, 2013, 12:19:49 PM
 #9

Welcome to Bitbond.net (Beta) - the first Huh Huh platform for Bitcoin debt instruments

GEMINI ACCOUNT REVIEW - Source of Funds Request
Peter Lambert
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 756
Merit: 500

It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye


View Profile
July 12, 2013, 02:40:45 PM
 #10

Welcome to Bitbond.net (Beta) - the first Huh Huh platform for Bitcoin debt instruments

Seems kinda sketchy to be claiming to be the first when we have already in this thread pointed out one other example, BTCjam, you could also argue that "platform for Bitcoin debt instruments" is also applicable to GLBSE (now defunct), MPEx, BTCT, BitFunder, coinlenders, bitfinex, ripple, and the lending section of this forum, just to name a few examples.

Use CoinBR to trade bitcoin stocks: CoinBR.com

The best place for betting with bitcoin: BitBet.us
Fugger
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 88
Merit: 10


Founder of Bitbond


View Profile WWW
July 12, 2013, 04:42:03 PM
 #11

We define debt instrument by the following criteria:

1) Money is lent for a fixed term that is longer than 12 months (anything up to 12 months is a money market instrument)
2) There is a contractual obligation to repay
3) The borrower undergoes a mandatory assessement of creditworthiness (rating)

Some comments:

  • If not all three criteria are met, for my understanding it is not a debt instrument in financial terminology
  • An obligation to repay only exists and is only enforcable if you have a contract, otherwise the debt holder fully relies on the goodwill of the borrower. I believe that such a missing obligation is an invitation to scammers. A site that does not provide Terms & Conditions which state what type of contract obliges the borrower to repay does not provide debt instruments but lending with the hope of repayment. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, it is certainly valid to try and see whether such an approach works out. The only thing I'm saying is that hoping someone will repay is not equal to holding a debt instrument.
  • A rating presupposes that the identity of the borrower is verified to the best possible extent and that this is mandatory. From my point of view you cannot have a legally binding contract with a pseudonym and I wouldn't lend money to someone who fails to provide proof of identity at least to an intermediary / clearing house.

I'm happy to discuss our criteria. To my knowledge the aforementioned sites do not meet them, but also happy to discuss. That is why we call Bitbond.net 'the first platform for Bitcoin debt instruments'.

Bitbond - global Bitcoin peer-to-peer lending
The #unbank
Fugger
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 88
Merit: 10


Founder of Bitbond


View Profile WWW
July 31, 2013, 07:55:31 PM
Last edit: December 22, 2014, 10:28:07 PM by Fugger
 #12

We are happy to announce that Bitbond is now a silver member of the Bitcoin Foundation!



Bitbond - global Bitcoin peer-to-peer lending
The #unbank
Macno
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 983
Merit: 1000


View Profile
September 27, 2013, 01:10:08 AM
 #13

Are you still active? Looks interesting!
Fugger
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 88
Merit: 10


Founder of Bitbond


View Profile WWW
September 27, 2013, 08:08:01 AM
 #14

Are you still active? Looks interesting!

Thank you!

We are active, but currently we do not unlock any new issuer accounts, that's why you don't see any listings. A law firm is updating our terms and conditions. When this is completed, new listings will come up again.

Bitbond - global Bitcoin peer-to-peer lending
The #unbank
geckoman
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 10
Merit: 0


View Profile
October 10, 2013, 04:42:28 PM
 #15

I have been using bitbond.net for a short time. Here are some thoughts on it:

They are definitely different from btcjam. More bureaucratic, but (hopefully) also more thorough. The company behind it is a GmbH, which is not easy or cheap to incorporate. (Not that this guarantees anything, but still...)

They don't do this whole reputation loan thing that goes on at BTCJam, and I think it's a good thing that they don't. IMHO, the btcjam reputation loans are a stupid idea, and they come down to buying yourself a good credit rating, especially if the borrower pays back early.

Interest rates on the site are always given "per annum". BTCJam gives interest rates over the term of the loan, which massively distorts your view on the real interest rate, especially for short-term loans. I can only assume that some of the borrowers on btcjam have never done the math, or else they would realize they are borrowing money at a p.a.-equivalent rate of 40 to 50%...

Their plan on dealing with non-paying borrowers seems more solid than BTCJam's. As a lender, I would feel more confident investing lots of coins on bitbond.net than on BTCJam. (Especially since they happen to be in the same jurisdiction as I am...)

They do not allow borrowers to set their own interest rates, but rather dictate interest on what they think the borrower's credit rating should be, which kinda goes against the whole free market idea.

I also think the interest rates they set are much too high. We are dealing with a deflationary currency here, after all.

They have very few listings, most of the time they don't have any. I'm assuming this is probably due to a combination of them not being very well known yet and checking every loan applicant a bit more thoroughly, but I don't really know.

A few more checks on the listings would be nice. For example, there's one listing that says "Real estate development. Revenues will come from tenants.". Sounds nice, but it would sound even nicer with a little note besides it among the lines of "Bitbond.net can confirm that this borrower owns real estate that can be rented out to tenants.".

They are much bigger on privacy than BTCJam. You don't get to see a user id or name of the borrower, and you don't get to see a list of investors for a given loan. There's also no way of commenting on a loan or any other way, really, for user's to communicate via the site.

There's a listing up there right now for a 36 months loan of 112 BTC at 11.66% p.a. IMHO, Bitcoin-denominated loans over such long term are a bad idea. Bitcoin still fluctuates wildly in value, and there is no way of knowing where it will stand in 3 years. If there is another big spike in value, it is very likely that the borrower will have to default.

They don't have a support or contact form on their website. Bad move, even if they are reachable via bitcointalk.

They don't (yet?) have a way of selling bonds again. This is bad for lenders who want to get out of a loan because they suddenly need the money or because they have changed their mind on a loan.
Fugger
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 88
Merit: 10


Founder of Bitbond


View Profile WWW
October 11, 2013, 11:13:54 AM
 #16

Thank you for your feedback, it's highly appreciated!

They do not allow borrowers to set their own interest rates, but rather dictate interest on what they think the borrower's credit rating should be, which kinda goes against the whole free market idea.

There are three ways of how to set interest rates on p2p lending platform:
1) let the borrower set the rate
2) let the borrower set a starting rate and then auction it off, so those lenders who bid the lowest interest rate are the ones who get to invest
3) the platform conducts a credit check and sets the rate according to creditworthiness

All three are legitimate concepts. The reason why on Bitbond.net we set the rates as in 3) is that experience from other p2p lending platform shows that it seems to produce the best results for both, borrowers an lenders. One popular example is the second largest US based p2p lending platform www.prosper.com. They started with interest rate setting as described in 2) and switched to 3) after they saw that interest rates did not reflect the default risks of borrowers correctly. Lenders weren't earning sufficient returns and the marketplace was close to stop. After they (and many others like LendingClub) changed their pricing to method 3) p2p lending started to work for them. I will post are more elaborate article about this on our blog soon.

I also think the interest rates they set are much too high. We are dealing with a deflationary currency here, after all.

I think this depends on the level of interest rates in your economy. Where you have high inflation, rates might be very low, with low inflation, rates are relatively high. But with currently low central bank interest rates in the Euro zone, bank loans have much higher interest rates that are not not far away from our's. After all, both sides need to be happy and that's what the rates are aimed at.

They have very few listings, most of the time they don't have any. I'm assuming this is probably due to a combination of them not being very well known yet and checking every loan applicant a bit more thoroughly, but I don't really know.

There is a number of reasons to this. We have been getting our terms of use straight for a while and weren't unlocking any new borrower accounts. Also, we're still quite new to the market so yes, we need to gain more publicity. And third, it is correct that our checks are quite thorough. There are new borrower aplicants every day but only very few of them are willing to disclose the information we require. And only those borrowers get their account unlocked, who fulfill the requirements. It's a trade off between having many users and the quality of the projects on the platform and I'm not willing to sacrifice on the quality of our credit check.

A few more checks on the listings would be nice. For example, there's one listing that says "Real estate development. Revenues will come from tenants.". Sounds nice, but it would sound even nicer with a little note besides it among the lines of "Bitbond.net can confirm that this borrower owns real estate that can be rented out to tenants.".

They are much bigger on privacy than BTCJam. You don't get to see a user id or name of the borrower, and you don't get to see a list of investors for a given loan. There's also no way of commenting on a loan or any other way, really, for user's to communicate via the site.

One of the next things that are on the to-do list is a public communication system. I think it would be of help, if there was a commenting function where lenders ask questions to borrowers and the answers are all public. It will be hard for us as a platform to verify every detail of each listing but when such questions arise, I believe there should be a way to address the borrower directly. What do you think, would this help? There is a long to do list so I'm taking suggestions which help us to prioritize.

There's a listing up there right now for a 36 months loan of 112 BTC at 11.66% p.a. IMHO, Bitcoin-denominated loans over such long term are a bad idea. Bitcoin still fluctuates wildly in value, and there is no way of knowing where it will stand in 3 years. If there is another big spike in value, it is very likely that the borrower will have to default.

This is certainly a valid point. But there is only one thing we really do know, and that is we don't know what's going to happen to the Bitcion price. If we have a 36m loan and the price goes down, the borrower benefits (in case they converted to a fiat currency). If the price goes up, the lenders benefit since they earn the interest plus the price move up. There is no way to predict what is going to happen but one thing that can be observed is that Bitcoin volatility is decreasing, as I have outlined here http://bitcoinmagazine.com/6543/bitcoin-volatility-analysis/. This doesn't mean the price can't go up, but the swings tend to become smaller which is good for Bitcoin loans in general.

One other solution would be to offer loans that are pegged to an exchange rate but it would only reverse the problem. I'm still thinking about it, though.

They don't have a support or contact form on their website. Bad move, even if they are reachable via bitcointalk.

They don't (yet?) have a way of selling bonds again. This is bad for lenders who want to get out of a loan because they suddenly need the money or because they have changed their mind on a loan.

On the left side of the browser window there should be w widget that says "Feedback & Support". It's a UserVoice app where you can either leave public comments or send an email to spport via a contact form. If it doesn't appear this might be due to your browser settings. You are also welcome to send an email to service(at)bitbond.net!

I'm planning to establish a secondary market, it's definitely on the list as this adds value to the site. However, currently there are other product related priorities. Stay tuned and again, always happy to take suggestions.

Bitbond - global Bitcoin peer-to-peer lending
The #unbank
geckoman
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 10
Merit: 0


View Profile
October 13, 2013, 02:39:02 PM
 #17

Are you aware that Bit bond was one of the the biggest scams in Bitcoin history?

It is like calling yourselves Bitcoin Savings and Trust

I saw it.

Bitbond.net as a name just fits our product well which is fundamentally different. Many bonds from corporates or governments are big scams and we still stick to the name "bonds" because it's a generic description regardless of quality. Of course, we work hard to do a lot better than that and maybe some day we all will succeed and Bitcoin will be a real currency alternative. I believe this largely depends on the reliability of the services we all provide. So maybe it's a good start to change the connotation of a name for the better.

By the way, it is beyond me why you have ignored this and decided to just stick with the name bitbond. TradeFortress is right, the name Bit bond is burned among the bitcoin community (a.k.a. your primary target audience). You might as well call yourself "The Bernie Madoff Fund Of Guaranteed Profits". Your rationalizations of the name don't matter, people won't even see them. They will see the name bitbond and decide not to bother reading anything else you have to say. Hint: If you find you need to defend your brand name or marketing decisions to your target audience, you are probably doing it wrong.

Also, calling yourself an "unbank"? I don't care what you think about banks or what you think your target audience thinks about banks, "un" is a negative prefix, and it leads to negative associations. It's not a good choice of you want to market something.

You need to talk to someone who knows how to do marketing, and soon. Don't pretend you don't have a problem, because you apparent inability to attract lenders lately says otherwise.
wdl1908
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 438
Merit: 250



View Profile
April 04, 2014, 02:12:25 PM
 #18

Has anyone used this in the last month?

Is it worth it?

I can't seem to find a lot of info or discussion about the site/company.
DiamondCardz
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1078
Merit: 1028

CryptoSamaritan - crypto-related help


View Profile WWW
April 04, 2014, 08:40:36 PM
 #19

Has anyone used this in the last month?

Is it worth it?

I can't seem to find a lot of info or discussion about the site/company.

With the lack of posts and promotion on any thread about Bitbond, I wouldn't use it until (if) the owner decides to make a post with extra information, solutions to problems brought up previously etc.

CryptoSamaritan - mental health resource for crypto-related addiction/depression
Share & support - the more people we reach, the more we can help | Bitcointalk thread | Website
nahtnam
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000


nahtnam.com


View Profile WWW
April 05, 2014, 09:55:24 PM
 #20

Seems interesting. Is it similar to what TF had going on?

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Bitcointalk.org is not available or authorized for sale. Do not believe any fake listings.
Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!