This is why I'm OUT

[popistoc]

10k value for a digital check simply doesn't make sense; this market is not mature, or ready - the 2 main exchanges are down during any significant BTC rise or drop/once you can't sell, you can't sell at any price, while the Coinbase VP says institutional investors will bring liquidity to the market/I read the rich getting richer; make no mistake, the shorts are coming as soon as BTC options gets listed, and I will be one of them; simply because this is an electronic avoid-the-government scheme is not enough to me-I can send money NOW on Western Union anywhere in the world and pay less for instant NOW transactions. Care to argue- go ahead

[1714895703]

1714895703

[1714895703]

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[1714895703]

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[tippytoes]

No one is forcing you anyway.  It's up to the user if he will take the risk or not. And it's your money, so no one can dictate on your decisions.

[Vannie12]

No one is forcing you anyway.  It's up to the user if he will take the risk or not. And it's your money, so no one can dictate on your decisions.

Pretty much yes, it matter of choice. Being involved in cryptocurrencies as a currency, as a storage, as an income, as a mode of transaction and convenience is never our decision but yours.
The volatile characteristic of bitcoin surely makes this industry profitably exciting. If you do not want to take risk then be it your loss. Future lies ahead for bitcoin users. Wise decision making is a must.

[Nerman]

10k value for a digital check simply doesn't make sense; this market is not mature, or ready - the 2 main exchanges are down during any significant BTC rise or drop/once you can't sell, you can't sell at any price, while the Coinbase VP says institutional investors will bring liquidity to the market/I read the rich getting richer; make no mistake, the shorts are coming as soon as BTC options gets listed, and I will be one of them; simply because this is an electronic avoid-the-government scheme is not enough to me-I can send money NOW on Western Union anywhere in the world and pay less for instant NOW transactions. Care to argue- go ahead

You have raised some valid points and i am also not denying the fact that western union or paypal can send money almost anywhere in the world. But what you are missing is when bitcoin get listed more people will trust bitcoin and more people will invest on it. Shorting bitcoin is just a short term strategy, what they usually do is hold it for long period of time.

If you think that bitcoin is  just a digital check to avoid the government then you really need to do more research.

Anyways that is your money and your decision.

[masterbt]

As long as you are looking bitcoin as transaction medium it is fine. Because, it is much faster than any other payment.
When you are looking this as a profit making investment then you need to have more patience.

[stompix]

I can send money NOW on Western Union anywhere in the world and pay less for instant NOW transactions. Care to argue- go ahead

Let me know how much WU is charging for sending 100 000$ from Australia to Peru.
I know that with bitcoin I pay 4$ right now.

As long as you are looking bitcoin as transaction medium it is fine. Because, it is much faster than any other payment.
When you are looking this as a profit making investment then you need to have more patience.

Actually is not that fast,or cheap.. it depends on situation.
National bank transfers here are almost instant at 0 fee, I can send my friend 100 euros in matter of second from my phone and he will get it usually under a minute ready to be spent although there is a limit to 5000.

But when it comes to large sums involving international transactions (outside SEPA) then bitcoins rules.

[10000BTC]

No one is forcing you anyway.  It's up to the user if he will take the risk or not. And it's your money, so no one can dictate on your decisions.

I agree with you.
No one is forcing him, i think he should rather join the race early to benefit from this opportunity
rather than to say he's out.

[rohqit]

10k value for a digital check simply doesn't make sense; this market is not mature, or ready - the 2 main exchanges are down during any significant BTC rise or drop/once you can't sell, you can't sell at any price, while the Coinbase VP says institutional investors will bring liquidity to the market/I read the rich getting richer; make no mistake, the shorts are coming as soon as BTC options gets listed, and I will be one of them; simply because this is an electronic avoid-the-government scheme is not enough to me-I can send money NOW on Western Union anywhere in the world and pay less for instant NOW transactions. Care to argue- go ahead

You have raised some valid points and i am also not denying the fact that western union or paypal can send money almost anywhere in the world. But what you are missing is when bitcoin get listed more people will trust bitcoin and more people will invest on it. Shorting bitcoin is just a short term strategy, what they usually do is hold it for long period of time.

If you think that bitcoin is  just a digital check to avoid the government then you really need to do more research.

Anyways that is your money and your decision.

Have to agree with the op here in that btc as it is now will never become mainstream, too many faster and cheaper alternatives. It is nothing more than an investment vehicle, like people paying millions for crap at an auction ... perceived value.

As for shorting, the bitcoiners have no idea what is coming. The fact that MOST can only go long now is the only reason for this sustained bull market.

Wait until btc goes on a regulated exchange and can be shorted easily and you will see downtrends that will make these current brief down spikes look like blips.

Shorting is as viable a strategy as holding, as you said, but even more so a more profitable strategy because markets fall with more force than they rise typically.

 I hope you are not counting on these sustained gains once shoring and regulation happens.

[Realist247]

But when it comes to large sums involving international transactions (outside SEPA) then bitcoins rules.

This is why the US government and China are going to come down fast and hard on crypto....and without mainstream warning.  Capital controls are one of the biggest issues within the topic of national security.

[jseverson]

10k value for a digital check simply doesn't make sense; this market is not mature, or ready - the 2 main exchanges are down during any significant BTC rise or drop/once you can't sell, you can't sell at any price, while the Coinbase VP says institutional investors will bring liquidity to the market/I read the rich getting richer; make no mistake, the shorts are coming as soon as BTC options gets listed, and I will be one of them; simply because this is an electronic avoid-the-government scheme is not enough to me-I can send money NOW on Western Union anywhere in the world and pay less for instant NOW transactions. Care to argue- go ahead

For mass adoption? It really isn't. Visa is much better performance wise, as it can handle far far more transactions. Does this mean you have to lose faith? I haven't. There are issues and we acknowledge that they exist. It's not like there aren't solutions. Segwit is being rolled out, and Lightning Network is on the way. We'll get there.

Western Union is fine and all, but Bitcoin is better for larger transactions. It still has a niche there, at least.

[Prabusiliwangi]

I agree with you.
No one is forcing him, i think he should rather join the race early to benefit from this opportunity
rather than to say he's out.

True, but the possibility of people to join early is a difficult thing. Because some people know the world of crypto not simultaneously. On the other hand there are also people who just observe and do not take the decision to not join early. But with you we can not impose the will because everyone has their own considerations. But I personally think it is not a late moment to join. Thank you

[chip211]

Risk is what all traders must accept when participating in trading. The value of the bitcoin pump-dump is what the trader wants.

[BitCoinKeeper]

10k value for a digital check simply doesn't make sense; this market is not mature, or ready - the 2 main exchanges are down during any significant BTC rise or drop/once you can't sell, you can't sell at any price, while the Coinbase VP says institutional investors will bring liquidity to the market/I read the rich getting richer; make no mistake, the shorts are coming as soon as BTC options gets listed, and I will be one of them; simply because this is an electronic avoid-the-government scheme is not enough to me-I can send money NOW on Western Union anywhere in the world and pay less for instant NOW transactions. Care to argue- go ahead

You have raised some valid points and i am also not denying the fact that western union or paypal can send money almost anywhere in the world. But what you are missing is when bitcoin get listed more people will trust bitcoin and more people will invest on it. Shorting bitcoin is just a short term strategy, what they usually do is hold it for long period of time.

If you think that bitcoin is  just a digital check to avoid the government then you really need to do more research.

Anyways that is your money and your decision.

Have to agree with the op here in that btc as it is now will never become mainstream, too many faster and cheaper alternatives. It is nothing more than an investment vehicle, like people paying millions for crap at an auction ... perceived value.

As for shorting, the bitcoiners have no idea what is coming. The fact that MOST can only go long now is the only reason for this sustained bull market.

Wait until btc goes on a regulated exchange and can be shorted easily and you will see downtrends that will make these current brief down spikes look like blips.

Shorting is as viable a strategy as holding, as you said, but even more so a more profitable strategy because markets fall with more force than they rise typically.

 I hope you are not counting on these sustained gains once shoring and regulation happens.

That is why I so hate the coming CME Futures Market, it in my opinion is the beginning of Government intervention, and regulation. What has been a decentralized opportunity will soon be controlled, by forces other than a transaction between a buyer and a seller. “ I’m from the government, I’m here to help”

[jtipt]

Risk is what all traders must accept when participating in trading. The value of the bitcoin pump-dump is what the trader wants.

That's correct if you are in bitcoin for short time trading then you need to use more than just one exchange, and if you know that exchange is known to go down when BTC fluctuates then you should stop using it. If this is something that you can't do, then trading simply isn't for you.

[piloder]

Bitcoin is not only another digital check, its blockchain based tech which is now being adopted by big corporations including visa and mastercard. $10k per bitcoin is still under valued if you look at total supply of bitcoin which can't be extended and number of online financial transactions occurring everyday (its in multi trillion dollar range).

[UltraMegaSick]

10k value for a digital check simply doesn't make sense; this market is not mature, or ready - the 2 main exchanges are down during any significant BTC rise or drop/once you can't sell, you can't sell at any price, while the Coinbase VP says institutional investors will bring liquidity to the market/I read the rich getting richer; make no mistake, the shorts are coming as soon as BTC options gets listed, and I will be one of them; simply because this is an electronic avoid-the-government scheme is not enough to me-I can send money NOW on Western Union anywhere in the world and pay less for instant NOW transactions. Care to argue- go ahead

Lol. it's value is given by us, maybe you'r giving up because of gamlbing.. because you must know you make richier WU while using them and perhaps BTC has lowest fees.

[winderx]

bro, it is never too late to join, unless you have very strong reason to say that 10k is the peak and will not rise anymore, then i will agree with you.

[Jaya912]

10k value for a digital check simply doesn't make sense; this market is not mature, or ready - the 2 main exchanges are down during any significant BTC rise or drop/once you can't sell, you can't sell at any price, while the Coinbase VP says institutional investors will bring liquidity to the market/I read the rich getting richer; make no mistake, the shorts are coming as soon as BTC options gets listed, and I will be one of them; simply because this is an electronic avoid-the-government scheme is not enough to me-I can send money NOW on Western Union anywhere in the world and pay less for instant NOW transactions. Care to argue- go ahead

Choice is belong to anyone so you can decide what you want to do with your life.
Involve or not is not really important issue. So nobody will force you in or out.
Bitcoin has big value so somebody will try to defeat it.
I am sure value of bitcoin is real depend on supply and demand.

[Nilda]

Quadrupling your money in less than a year makes sense. And this is merely the beginning. Predictions by experts and non-experts vary only on the number of times it would go up.

[Dozer988]

10k value for a digital check simply doesn't make sense; this market is not mature, or ready - the 2 main exchanges are down during any significant BTC rise or drop/once you can't sell, you can't sell at any price, while the Coinbase VP says institutional investors will bring liquidity to the market/I read the rich getting richer; make no mistake, the shorts are coming as soon as BTC options gets listed, and I will be one of them; simply because this is an electronic avoid-the-government scheme is not enough to me-I can send money NOW on Western Union anywhere in the world and pay less for instant NOW transactions. Care to argue- go ahead

I do not think that's why you out bitcoin. Actually you are worried about the bitcoin value going up or down erratically or you even have to cut losses because of it.