Can Europe save Bitcoin?

[jratcliff63367]

So, I've made a number of pretty negative posts about the future of bitcoin recently.  I hate being so negative; but I feel that I was being realistic about the situation.

In the past week or so I have taken a new point of view on this topic that gives me some hope.  Most everything I have said about the future of bitcoin has all been relative to the point of view of someone who lives in the United Corporated States of America. 

Everyone knows by now that the US government is essentially owned and run by major corporations; to such an extent that corporations actually draft the language of bills and insert special consideration like Monsanto recently did by getting a bill passed which exempted them, quite specifically, from prosecution.

Now, let's be clear, Bitcoin is a major threat to a whole lot of corporations.  First, it will put Western Union out of business, and that's just a fact.  Second, over the long term, it could severally impact Visa, Mastercard, and other payment services companies which make their living by bilking 3% off the top of every purchase and holding people's money hostage.

For those of you who don't know, Bitcoin transactions are extremely inexpensive, often times free, nearly instantaneous (relative to banks and credit card companies) and are irreversible.  These are all properties highly desirable by every business in the world who currently gets raked over the coals for transaction fees and charge-backs from the major credit card companies.

So, who else is threatened by Bitcoin?  Banks.  Simple as that.  They make their money on over-draft fees, maintenance fees, and simply holding your money hostage.  They can, and do, simply confiscate checking accounts.  While a Bitcoin bank account (or wallet if you prefer) certainly comes with it's own set of risks, it's not subject to the whims of a bank.

There are over a billion people in the world who have a cell phone but not a checking account.  Every single one of them could have their own bank account, using bitcoin, via their cell phone.  That's a huge need that needs to be filled.

I won't get into the issue of people using Bitcoin to avoid paying taxes.  My view on that topic is that tax law is very clear.  It doesn't matter if you are getting paid in dollars, bitcoins, or bananas.  You are legally obligated to pay your taxes, and nothing about Bitcoin changes that.

However, the long term threat of Bitcoin is when it reaches a point when it is a more commonly accepted form of payment than credit cards and debit cards, at that point people are going to start moving away from fiat currency entirely.

Now, you can be like me and see this as a 'good thing', but the folks printing fiat currency may take a different view on the topic.

So, why am I still slightly bullish on bitcoin?

I think it's because I realized that the entire world is *not* the United States.  And, let's be clear, with the recent revelations about the US government spying on nearly every person on the planet, including American citizens, there isn't much love out there in the world at large to listen to what they have to say.

Right now, especially in Europe, there is a building resentment against the bullying tactics used by the United States.  I believe there are strong signs that Bitcoin may well flourish in Europe, and certainly many other countries around the world.

Let's say the US continues their regulatory bullying to the point that they essentially make it impossible to use Bitcoin in the US, that doesn't mean Bitcoin cannot still fulfill it's destiny and promise in Europe and other nations.

We might well be looking at a future where you can't use Bitcoins in the US but if you travel to Europe you can leave your credit card and cash in your wallet the entire trip.

And, if that happens, the US will have to realize that the battle has been lost; because while Bitcoin threatens a lot of existing businesses who make their money by parasitically living off of every monetary transaction, there a whole lot of new business which will flourish and grow based on this new form of technology.

We live in a global economy and the US will only be able to get away with shutting down Bitcoin for so long here.  I'm not so sure the rest of the world is going to agree with their insane regulations.

Bitcoin will continue to be traded in the US, person to person, and it will still have value based on it's acceptance in the global marketplace.

So, maybe there is hope after all in our freedom loving friends outside of the United States.

[bitcryptonit]

actually all countries rejected to help Snowden in europe and they are trying to catch him as much as they master USA wants. Europe wont save bitcoin because they are USA allies and will do what USA will tell them to do. Of course that could change as europe is not happy after this NSA situation but i doubt it. I think more china or russia can help bitcoin than europe.

[biggie]

For clarity lets make sure when we talk about Europe it is the continent and the EU when we talk about the block of countries working together and selling their people to Brussel.

[MarpleTrading]

Don't count to much on Europe. The embarrassment over prism by our ministers is played, they knew about it and used the information. We also sold out to Monsanto, and I am not sure if i have to pay royalties now when I eat broccoli.

http://www.naturalnews.com/041014_Monsanto_seed_patents_GMOs.html

[jratcliff63367]

Well, I have just been writing doom and gloom posts about bitcoin for the past month, so I was happy to have one positive thought come into my head.

Hearing the people at the London bitcoin conference yesterday basically dismissing the US was refreshing.

The fact that the US regulatory environment is so absurd and closed doesn't mean that the situation in Europe or other countries has to be so as well, to the point that you can't even use BTC there.

I'm not suggesting there should be no regulation of fiat-to-btc and btc-to-fiat transfers; but the way things are going in the US its appears likely that they are going to regulate it out of existence.

John

[MagicBit15]

Europe doesn't need to be saved, PARTS of Europe do.

In fact the European Union is the only place on earth to have a higher GDP (gross) than the US.

So yeah...

[domob]

As others also have already pointed out, unfortunately Europe (or in particular the EU) isn't all that immune to selling themselves for corporate interests, either.  See for instance: http://lobbyplag.eu/map

Apparently some MEPs basically copy&pasted suggestions for what the new data protection law should include from corporate lobbying papers.  I also notice currently in Austria on a national level that with a lot of issues, the majority opinion is seemingly ignored by the government as soon as there's the danger to hurt some economic interests of certain large companies (whose owners are usually closely related in a lot of ways to politicians).

However, regarding Bitcoin it seems to me that Europe (and basically all the world except the US) really takes on a much looser and in my opinion saner stance, so there's indeed some hope.

[polarhei]

Linux is founded on Europe, Also the code usage, popular in E.U so it is possible to get saved as Some people have done bad which may get the being stronger.

[inge]

The Euro, with all its limits, was designed to be a stable currency. Inflation is not supported in Euro area. From this point of view, the philosophy that support the Euro is quite closer to the idea of deflation than an inflating currency can be.

At the moment, The Netherlands (where HappyCoins is based) is quite tolerant about Bitcoins.

[Itcher]

Sorry, I would like to share your hope, but I don't do.

In 2012 the EU made a study about Bitcoin and Crypto-Currencys, and they didn't say: it could be usefull, give it a try, they said: it could be a Ponzi-scheme. Doesn't sound too good. Anyway: where's the trade with euro? I am always looking on bitcoinity, and it's on a very small volume ... where is the great volumen of the european market?

Europeans are maybe more skeptic as Americans, the most people here needed more than 10 years to count in euro instead of DM ("The price for this pizza was 8 euro, that are 16 Mark"), and even now a lot of people wish their old currency back. How many years would the masses need to accept something, that is not only a coin with another face, but a new system? Its too easy to reject something you don't understand on the first glance instead of trying to understand it open minded.

Even now, as a lot of people claim the Euro to be a bad invention and the cause for the actual crises (partly because its something new) I read the comments in some german newspapers about the winklevoss-thing. There were not much comments - interest is low - and most of them claimed btc was scam. I think because its new and strange and someone told them its a scam.

The EU wants bank-holders pay for bail-out - as the most people want - so she will be not amused if btc give them the possibility to hide their money. If we'll experience another cyprus, maybe bigger, with portugal or spain or greece, and it goes along with btc rising - I am pretty sure the EU will act against btc. And she just needs to claim BTC was an instrument to hide the money of the rich to gather the public behind her.

In the US you made it to legalize Cannabis. I the EU this is no point of discussion. The netherlands made it legal long time ago and the volumen of consumption didn't rise? Cannabis is good against cancer and a lot of other things? There has never been someone died from cannabis? The war against the drugs makes more harm than good? Noone wants to know, for decades, people still thinking, cannabis is like heroin, who cares about arguments and logic, if he has good-working ressentiments? Even the netherlands actually fight against their coffeeshops.

one question: what is happycoins? Can someone tell me? Thanks.

[Itcher]

Also I don't think Bitcoin needs someone to "save" it. The better question is: can the Bitcoin save Europe?

[domob]

Anyway: where's the trade with euro? I am always looking on bitcoinity, and it's on a very small volume ... where is the great volumen of the european market?

I bought most of my Bitcoins on Mt. Gox with Euro.  Recently I switched to Bitstamp, and they don't even allow to account fiat money in Euro but instead convert your deposit (via SEPA EU transfer to Slovenia!) to USD immediately.  I don't know whether this is good (because the USD market has more depth) or bad (because, you know, I'd rather keep my fiat in EUR than USD and have fluctuations against Euro), but maybe this answers your question.

[bitfromit]

Government is a monstrous emergent phenomenon. However at the end of the day it is just made up of individuals. I wonder how many of those bureaucrats come home from "just doing their job" making the world a worse place for everyone, meanwhile they have quietly got to grips with bitcoin and are rooting for it?

Bitcoin sets the bar very high indeed. Sooner or later the authorities will have to explain to a wide audience exactly how the legacy system is superior.

Rather impossible to measure this metric though.

[countryfree]

The idea here is that corporations are against bitcoin, and that since there are less corporations in Europe, bitcoin should be more successful there. The idea that there are less corporations in Europe, or that there are less powerful is dubious at best, but we must also see that some corporations have a lot to gain from bitcoin. Everyone's doing international trade could benefit from an universal currency.

I travel quite a lot, and I've paid fees all over the planet for the simple service of changing money from one currency to another. If bitcoin can make me save money, I say bitcoin's great. And everyone regularly converting money will say the same thing.

[inge]

one question: what is happycoins? Can someone tell me? Thanks.

 www.happycoins.nl

[gapthemind]

I dont think it is in their interest to do anything about saving a currency that cant be subjected to taxes, can be used in " shady " business. It is in government interest to take control of something like that and use it for their own purpose.

[wopwop]

I personally believe that EU europeans don't know bitcoin and that people in our nation will be able to find financial salvation in bitcoins in the very near future

[IIOII]

Can Europe save Bitcoin?

I guess you got this wrong.

Corrected question: Can Bitcoin save Europe?


Most western-style countries (USA and Europe alike) need new economic impulse. Bitcoin is here to help.

[arruah]

china and russia save bitcoin.

[leopard2]

china and russia save bitcoin.

European countries' leaders are America's cocksuckers in case you haven't noticed. And believe me, they swallow.

They will do anything Obama asks them, and waggle their tail, happy they could serve their master.

So yes it will be countries that are on not so good terms with the US that could allow BTC to continue to operate - and the US leaders know this. This is what worries them; if they decide to force their citizens to stay out of BTC, they could miss the train and, at some point, that train could become so large that it competes with USD. Imagine a world currency called BTC; used by China, Russia, South America etc, to sell goods like oil for BTC? OMG!! BTC a competitor for the Dark Empire's IMF drawing rights? 21 million BTC can represent 2100 trillion US cents, so the sky is the limit.

That is why BTC has not been attacked full force, methinks.