BFL refund through Paypal claim

[Syke]

Of course to find a "BFL" legal entity or an individual to take to court is a different matter entirely,  as far as i know bfl is completely anonymous, just some website ran by a bunch unknown individuals. There is no legal LLC or legal ownership established. So who are you going to sue to get your money back if paid via btc or wire?   Only way is to go through the criminal route, but the feds wont even look at it if it's less than 7 figures, and if the individual are outside of the US you can completely forget about it.

https://wyobiz.wy.gov/Business/FilingDetails.aspx?eFNum=149144214231010201167112190255028042109060235081

BFL is a US corporation, but the owners are unknown.

[Trongersoll]

Of course to find a "BFL" legal entity or an individual to take to court is a different matter entirely,  as far as i know bfl is completely anonymous, just some website ran by a bunch unknown individuals. There is no legal LLC or legal ownership established. So who are you going to sue to get your money back if paid via btc or wire?   Only way is to go through the criminal route, but the feds wont even look at it if it's less than 7 figures, and if the individual are outside of the US you can completely forget about it.

https://wyobiz.wy.gov/Business/FilingDetails.aspx?eFNum=149144214231010201167112190255028042109060235081

BFL is a US corporation, but the owners are unknown.

Depending on how pissed you are, there is always a way.

[newguy05]

Of course to find a "BFL" legal entity or an individual to take to court is a different matter entirely,  as far as i know bfl is completely anonymous, just some website ran by a bunch unknown individuals. There is no legal LLC or legal ownership established. So who are you going to sue to get your money back if paid via btc or wire?   Only way is to go through the criminal route, but the feds wont even look at it if it's less than 7 figures, and if the individual are outside of the US you can completely forget about it.

https://wyobiz.wy.gov/Business/FilingDetails.aspx?eFNum=149144214231010201167112190255028042109060235081

BFL is a US corporation, but the owners are unknown.

rofl they actually did a corp?  okie i didnt know that, then you can take them to court, there is no owner as it's a corp, you go after the entity itself. Of course it's almost guaranteed they will file for bankruptcy if enough people try. You can then go after the officers/directors themselves if you can show criminal(fraud) took place. The shareholders for the corp can also sue the management for misleading the investors, but in this case it's probably all the same people anyway.

[solitude]

There has to be at least one pre-orderer taking legal action by now, right?

[PuertoLibre]

Yes.

[Viceroy]

If you have evidence BFL have broken the law, please post here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=247310.0

If you are seeking a refund or have been denied a refund please post here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=248447.0

[PuertoLibre]

?

Does this mean they are shipping at light speed?

Are they finally done shipping?

Why the no refund clause if they haven't even started on sending Little Singles? (To the best of my knowledge.)

By the way, can anyone change the above from "Near" to "Here"?

[solitude]

by BFL_Jody  , 06-12-2013 at 09:48 PM
We shipped most Jalapeno orders through August 22 today. And I hear that 2 Single SC's shipped. Sorry to be late with that awesome news.

It is now nearly a month since they've been claiming to be shipping June 23rd, 2012 orders for Singles

Time to bring in the lawyers, this company is going down.

[Loredo]

There has to be at least one pre-orderer taking legal action by now, right?

Remember that once someone files a civil action, their attorneys almost always insist that they refrain from any public discussion of the matter, up to and including even acknowledging the existence of the action.

But, as answered above, IMO the answer to your question is almost certainly "yes."

[af_newbie]

Of course to find a "BFL" legal entity or an individual to take to court is a different matter entirely,  as far as i know bfl is completely anonymous, just some website ran by a bunch unknown individuals. There is no legal LLC or legal ownership established. So who are you going to sue to get your money back if paid via btc or wire?   Only way is to go through the criminal route, but the feds wont even look at it if it's less than 7 figures, and if the individual are outside of the US you can completely forget about it.

https://wyobiz.wy.gov/Business/FilingDetails.aspx?eFNum=149144214231010201167112190255028042109060235081

BFL is a US corporation, but the owners are unknown.

Directors are listed under "Parties"  in the link you provided.  They are probably the sole owners.

President / Director   CHRIS      VLEISIDES         2507 JEFFERSON KANSAS CITY, MO 64108
President / Director   Nasser      Ghoseiri      

https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=2507+Jefferson+Street,+Kansas+City,+MO+64108,+United+States&hl=en&ll=39.080216,-94.587178&spn=0.007104,0.016512&sll=39.081892,-94.592591&layer=c&cbp=13,73.33,,0,-4.71&cbll=39.08191,-94.592809&hnear=2507+Jefferson+St,+Kansas+City,+Jackson,+Missouri+64108,+United+States&t=m&z=17&panoid=1reGHDNoXchP-QvCXIXP4A

[Frizz23]

Directors are listed under "Parties"  in the link you provided.  They are probably the sole owners.

President / Director   CHRIS      VLEISIDES         2507 JEFFERSON KANSAS CITY, MO 64108

2507 JEFFERSON KANSAS CITY, MO 64108 looks like this here 
(the door plate indeed says "Chris Vleisides")

[jdape]

Wow.  Between this and the pictures of the Mini Rigs held together with black tape, hot glue, and velcro, I'm glad I cancelled.

[SpaceCaptainKangaroo]

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/3675-refund-policy.html

https://i.imgur.com/lWCWk9a.png

https://i.imgur.com/30IUkLO.png

https://i.imgur.com/Tvhnzof.png

[k9quaint]

Before:

Hypothetically, what do you think a company, faced with all pre-orders canceled, yet holding onto hundreds of TH of mining equipment is going to do?  Say "Oh noes! Bye!" ... or do you think they'd press that hardware into service?

Yes, by all means, cancel all the orders, lets see how well that ends up working out.

For the record, BFL is capable of refunding all of the preorders in the queue and remaining in business.  Would we have to pare down on employees?  Sure we would, but then again, we wouldn't need so many employees if we aren't doing customer service anyway.

After:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/3675-refund-policy.html

The internet always remembers. 

[Syke]

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/3675-refund-policy.html

It is sure nice of them to change their policies after people have already placed orders. Such integrity!

[PaperClip]

They have sold units with no refund policy as of day 1. Even with this policy, it was possible to ask for refund and they were accepting them. Then they have double checked order status with every customer, providing refund to everyone who wants, notifying that refunds will be completely canceled soon. Is it not enough? Maybe they should have go to every customer doorstep to personally tell them "do not wait for your unit for 4 more months, take back your money instead"?

And now after all this - somebody thinks that he is special and all previous communications and notifications are not applied to him. Are you serious? Where have you been 2 months ago, when difficulty scyrocketed, and BFL was considered as scam? Now it is even better situation for BFL customers than before, they have a lot of confirmations that company is not scam.

[Bicknellski]

They have sold units with no refund policy as of day 1. Even with this policy, it was possible to ask for refund and they were accepting them. Then they have double checked order status with every customer, providing refund to everyone who wants, notifying that refunds will be completely canceled soon. Is it not enough? Maybe they should have go to every customer doorstep to personally tell them "do not wait for your unit for 4 more months, take back your money instead"?

And now after all this - somebody thinks that he is special and all previous communications and notifications are not applied to him. Are you serious? Where have you been 2 months ago, when difficulty scyrocketed, and BFL was considered as scam? Now it is even better situation for BFL customers than before, they have a lot of confirmations that company is not scam.

IS BFL BREAKING THE LAW?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=247310.msg2625104#msg2625104

Flying Hellfish Writes:

Since they have stopped issuing refunds it certainly appears to me (IANAL) they are at least breaking FTC regulations.  It would seem that UNTIL the product is physically shipped a customer has the right to cancel their order (for ANY reason) and the company MUST issue a prompt refund.  

Below is quoted from the link at the FTC site (bolded is mine)

When You Must Cancel an Order

You must cancel an order and provide a prompt refund when:
•the customer exercises any option to cancel before you ship the merchandise;
•the customer does not respond to your first notice of a definite revised shipment date of 30 days or less and you have not shipped the merchandise or received the customer’s consent to a further delay by the definite revised shipment date;
•the customer does not respond to your notice of a definite revised shipment date of more than 30 days (or your notice that you are unable to provide a definite revised shipment date) and you have not shipped the merchandise within 30 days of the original shipment date;
•the customer consents to a definite delay and you have not shipped or obtained the customer’s consent to any additional delay by the shipment time the customer consented to;
•you have not shipped or provided the required delay or renewed option notices on time; or
•you determine that you will never be able to ship the merchandise.


http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus02-business-guide-mail-and-telephone-order-merchandise-rule

[SpaceCaptainKangaroo]

https://i.imgur.com/bQQ9n61.png

[Bicknellski]

Wow.  Between this and the pictures of the Mini Rigs held together with black tape, hot glue, and velcro, I'm glad I cancelled.

+1 snicker.

[YipYip]

Not Long Now ....