BFL refund through Paypal claim

[Unacceptable]

If you want a refund,just whine louder!!!!

Glad I don't have to deal with them anymore 

& NEVER again 

[BTCscraper]

There's no reason for BFL not to refund.  They don't need to stop refunds to order the right amount of parts because I'm sure people are still ordering (new orders replacing refunded ones), and any parts left can be used to build miners that BFL can use by themselves.

[PuertoLibre]

If you want a refund,just whine louder!!!!

Glad I don't have to deal with them anymore 

& NEVER again 

I think everyone is just entering into panic because:

A) The price of Bitcoin is down almost 30% in the last week. (PANIC!)
B) The enormous amount of ASICs are making BTC very hard to mine. And this is barely the tip of the iceberg. (PANIC x2)
C) BFL's customer base has become aware that they are being royally screwed.

I am cheering BFL on. Because they are keeping those that didn't want to see the signs a virtual hostage with their money.

In which case, they (BFL) are making these customers stick with their decision. They no longer have a choice in the matter. Shouldn't we rejoice that BFL customers had enough wisdom to rush the refund window all at the same time at the very last second?

Now they will get ASICs that will cost them money and not actually make them any (unless they purchased a large lot). (In my opinion.)

Hopefully when the BFL customers get desperate and all begin selling off their hardware, people like us will snatch it up on pennies on the dollar. Let them all sell it off at discounted prices.

Those of you buying these at disenchanted prices, make sure to hold out for a good deal. Lets start with 50% purchase price. Then work our way down from there.

[YipYip]

If you want a refund,just whine louder!!!!

Glad I don't have to deal with them anymore 

& NEVER again 

I think everyone is just entering into panic because:

A) The price of Bitcoin is down almost 30% in the last week. (PANIC!)
B) The enormous amount of ASICs are making BTC very hard to mine. And this is barely the tip of the iceberg. (PANIC x2)
C) BFL's customer base has become aware that they are being royally screwed.

I am cheering BFL on. Because they are keeping those that didn't want to see the signs a virtual hostage with their money.

In which case, they (BFL) are making these customers stick with their decision. They no longer have a choice in the matter. Shouldn't we rejoice that BFL customers had enough wisdom to rush the refund window all at the same time at the very last second?

Now they will get ASICs that will cost them money and not actually make them any (unless they purchased a large lot). (In my opinion.)

Hopefully when the BFL customers get desperate and all begin selling off their hardware, people like us will snatch it up on pennies on the dollar. Let them all sell it off at discounted prices.

Those of you buying these at disenchanted prices, make sure to hold out for a good deal. Lets start with 50% purchase price. Then work our way down from there.

Agreed

We have so many things to thank BFL that we should really be praising them !!

1) Litecoin would not be in this fantastic and in some ways dominant position that it is without BFL locking all those funds and forcing a lot of die hard BTC guys to look at LTC as a true alternative
2) Anybody who would buy ASIC's in this climate has rocks in their head... having said that I think when the arse falls out of ASIC's i I agree @ 50% pricing BTC even starts to look good to me...lolz
3) And last but not least the never ending comedy act that is Josh Zerhlan and his conman crew delivering the never ending pearls of wisdom of customer relations and how to totally alienate a complete community in short but rather intresting lessons ...the thing that gets me is that "He Thinks" that he is being so totally paitient and understanding in his dealings with all.... the guy gets my vote for the 2013 "Delusional" awards

I think we have entered the home stretch and over the next 1-2 months all of BFL's chicken's are going to come home to roost ...i.e all the lies and double dealings and legal problems are going to drop out of the sky and hit them like a meteor

[erk]

Kansas, the state where BFL are located, has extensive consumer protection legislation, you might want to review some.

http://kansasstatutes.lesterama.org/Chapter_50/Article_6/

I would imagine that a web sale would fall under the telemarketing legislation, which entitles the consumer to a refund right up until 7 days after taking delivery of the goods or service.

So don't fall for the all sales are final ploy, do your research.

[Loredo]

The internet always remembers. 

What an absolute hoot.  You just couldn't make this shit up.  In the screen shots in the quoted post, of the posts by an individual named "BFL_Josh (member type: employee)," he stated yesterday that one of the reasons they closed the refund window was because BFL isn't a hedge for your bitcoin investment. 

For most people, still, the question is: "what bitcoin investment?" 

For them, all they've done is sent cash or bitcoins to somebody in Kansas City (the Silicon Valley of the Bible Belt), and most are still waiting and hoping for the best, including some, now, who would like to stop waiting.

BFL isn't anybody's bitcoin hedge.  BFL is what a lot of people still need to hedge against. 

Feckin' classic.    

[PaperClip]

Hopefully when the BFL customers get desperate and all begin selling off their hardware, people like us will snatch it up on pennies on the dollar. Let them all sell it off at discounted prices.

Wisdom in its finest form


Dear everyone-who-now-has-changed-his-mind-and-want-a-refund,
Stop acting like child and start to sell your preordered BFL units on ebay. Let me help you: http://www.ebay.com/
Thank you for your cooperation.

Best Regards,
PaperClip

[Loredo]

In which case, they (BFL) are making these customers stick with their decision. They no longer have a choice in the matter. Shouldn't we rejoice that BFL customers had enough wisdom to rush the refund window all at the same time at the very last second?

Now they will get ASICs that will cost them money and not actually make them any

While, generally, I try to control the emotions of Schadenfreude, and keep it business, sometimes, it seeps through.

When, in March or April, BFL ran the game called "We're getting ready to ship now.  Reconfirm and lock in your order now or we'll refund you now, and nevermore", there was nothing but rejoicing in the BFL camp, and mocking of those who had been questioning things all along.

We think we should try to be sympathetic, though. 

[Paladin69]

Yes if you haven't received your refund by now you can file complaint with the Federal trade commission.  They will advocate for you and make sure you get your funds.

https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/

You can do this with any product if the business is located in the US.

bump

[PuertoLibre]

Reach out to some news station and get a chance to air your story with a troubled company:

Main Page: http://www.kmbc.com/news/9-can-help
Contact Info: http://www.kmbc.com/news/9-can-help/Got-a-problem-Contact-9-Can-Help/-/14588640/14597360/-/yr8m5jz/-/index.html

KMBC 9 News investigation

[Paladin69]

It looks like you can also file a complaint to the Attorney General of Kansas City directly.  Not sure if you need to be a citizen of Kansas City or not...

http://ag.ks.gov/

http://da.jocogov.org/complaint-forms

[Flying Hellfish]

Kansas, the state where BFL are located, has extensive consumer protection legislation, you might want to review some.

http://kansasstatutes.lesterama.org/Chapter_50/Article_6/

I would imagine that a web sale would fall under the telemarketing legislation, which entitles the consumer to a refund right up until 7 days after taking delivery of the goods or service.

So don't fall for the all sales are final ploy, do your research.

BFL is more likely a mail order business than a telemarketing business, however I will say from what I have read and understand BFL not honouring refund request is at least against FTC regulations, I am also quite sure there are tons of other consumer protection laws on the state and municipal level that deal with this stuff but its pretty clear to most rational people that you can not just take a consumers money and if you have yet to deliver the product you tell them to go pound salt and tell them we will deliver when we deliver.


This is the actual FTC link that talks about mail order business and delivery and refunding.  From the description there it certainly appears as though BFL falls in the mail order business.


http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus02-business-guide-mail-and-telephone-order-merchandise-rule

[PuertoLibre]

Butterfly Labs @ The Better Business Bureau

http://www.bbb.org/us/Find-Business-Reviews/name/Butterfly+labs/

BBB Reviews for Butterfly Labs:

http://www.bbb.org/kansas-city/business-reviews/telecommunication-equipment-and-systems-dealers/butterfly-labs-in-kansas-city-mo-1000002011

How to File a Complaint:
https://www.bbb.org/consumer-complaints/file-a-complaint/get-started/?source=cibr&bbbid=0674&bid=1000002011

[Loredo]

Do note, though, that the Better Business Bureau has no official capacity.  In fact, I believe that a business pays the BBB to become a member and to receive a rating.  

So, while membership in good standing is evidence of good will on the part of a business, not being a member is not itself evidence of ill will.  

[YipYip]

Kansas, the state where BFL are located, has extensive consumer protection legislation, you might want to review some.

http://kansasstatutes.lesterama.org/Chapter_50/Article_6/

I would imagine that a web sale would fall under the telemarketing legislation, which entitles the consumer to a refund right up until 7 days after taking delivery of the goods or service.

So don't fall for the all sales are final ploy, do your research.

erk whats this trying to change sides are we....lol

You are a BFL shill so please remember your place is to try and fill the world with more BFL bullshit

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Reach out to some news station and get a chance to air your story with a troubled company:

Main Page: http://www.kmbc.com/news/9-can-help
Contact Info: http://www.kmbc.com/news/9-can-help/Got-a-problem-Contact-9-Can-Help/-/14588640/14597360/-/yr8m5jz/-/index.html

KMBC 9 News investigation

You're a mother fuckin' mind reader. The first time one of them BFLers say "No comment!", their mailbox will begin to get filled with even more refund requests.

At least BFL will have one ace up their sleeve: Pay for more advertising on this forum to garner more sales.

Remember last year when all the buzz was about working 24/7 on the holiday days? Name one day BFL had a full complement of workers at their facility on a holiday. Even better, name any day where crews working 24/7. As far as I can tell, there's still a swarm of locusts in the unemployment line, and that's only if the temp assemblers didn't ear them.

[PuertoLibre]

Reach out to some news station and get a chance to air your story with a troubled company:

Main Page: http://www.kmbc.com/news/9-can-help
Contact Info: http://www.kmbc.com/news/9-can-help/Got-a-problem-Contact-9-Can-Help/-/14588640/14597360/-/yr8m5jz/-/index.html

KMBC 9 News investigation

You're a mother fuckin' mind reader. The first time one of them BFLers say "No comment!", their mailbox will begin to get filled with even more refund requests.

At least BFL will have one ace up their sleeve: Pay for more advertising on this forum to garner more sales.

Remember last year when all the buzz was about working 24/7 on the holiday days? Name one day BFL had a full complement of workers at their facility on a holiday. Even better, name any day where crews working 24/7. As far as I can tell, there's still a swarm of locusts in the unemployment line, and that's only if the temp assemblers didn't ear them.

I recall those statements around the end of last year.

They never keep their promises, do they?

[scambutterflylabs]

... in 2 months ...

[KarmaShark]

If you want a refund,just whine louder!!!!

Glad I don't have to deal with them anymore  

& NEVER again  

I think everyone is just entering into panic because:

A) The price of Bitcoin is down almost 30% in the last week. (PANIC!)
B) The enormous amount of ASICs are making BTC very hard to mine. And this is barely the tip of the iceberg. (PANIC x2)
C) BFL's customer base has become aware that they are being royally screwed.

I am cheering BFL on. Because they are keeping those that didn't want to see the signs a virtual hostage with their money.

In which case, they (BFL) are making these customers stick with their decision. They no longer have a choice in the matter. Shouldn't we rejoice that BFL customers had enough wisdom to rush the refund window all at the same time at the very last second?

Now they will get ASICs that will cost them money and not actually make them any (unless they purchased a large lot). (In my opinion.)

Hopefully when the BFL customers get desperate and all begin selling off their hardware, people like us will snatch it up on pennies on the dollar. Let them all sell it off at discounted prices.

Those of you buying these at disenchanted prices, make sure to hold out for a good deal. Lets start with 50% purchase price. Then work our way down from there.

For all of the coverage the BFL Long-Con has received, this is the first time I have seen someone give this perspective. To anyone involved in ฿ intelligent enough to not do business with BFL, you really have to be thrilled about what they have been able to pull off, on a personal level. You can thank BFL for the following:


- Herding the most gullible and naive Bitcoin investors together and cleaning them out of all of  some / all of their $ or ฿'s, thus removing them from the market. Their purchasing power is gone and they are no longer competing with yours to drive up prices. BFL customers have made us all wealthier.

- ASICMINER has been given the market, thanks in large part to their #2 or #3 challenger offering them a full 12-14 month head start. Any rare BFL hardware that does make it to an investor will now have to compete in a sea of outperforming hardware of scale. BFL has essentially taken $ and ฿ directly from clueless investors and redistributed that bounty back into the network, down the grapevine and into ASICMINER shareholders pockets.

- 50-75% hardware blow-outs on BFL's gear are coming this Fall. For the few remaining marks left in the BFL camp, the odds of receiving hardware that works AND is profitable is becoming a pipe dream. Queue the flood of BFL pre-order fire sales taking place in the Auctions forum on this very site and Ebay. This is what should happen, intelligent investors that had the sense to stay away from BFL can now use their $ or ฿ to buy up the bilked investors discounted hardware. This allows someone to still make a net return on the hardware, and that is how it should be in this case.


The free market punishes lack of foresight, impatience and naivete. It rewards vision, mental strength and timing. The BFL scandal is a wonderful example of how this industry attracts both types of investors in droves, and why shamelessly (and obviously) bilking the most gullible of them is still a profitable business venture.

[erk]

For all of the coverage the BFL Long-Con has received, this is the first time I have seen someone give this perspective. To anyone involved in ฿ intelligent enough to not do business with BFL, you really have to be thrilled about what they have been able to pull off, on a personal level. You can thank BFL for the following:


- Herding the most gullible and naive Bitcoin investors together and cleaning them out of all of  some / all of their $ or ฿'s, thus removing them from the market. Their purchasing power is gone and they are no longer competing with yours to drive up prices. BFL customers have made us all wealthier.

- ASICMINER has been given the market, thanks in large part to their #2 or #3 challenger offering them a full 12-14 month head start. Any rare BFL hardware that does make it to an investor will now have to compete in a sea of outperforming hardware of scale. BFL has essentially taken $ and ฿ directly from clueless investors and redistributed that bounty back into the network, down the grapevine and into ASICMINER shareholders pockets.

- 50-75% hardware blow-outs on BFL's gear are coming this Fall. For the few remaining marks left in the BFL camp, the odds of receiving hardware that works AND is profitable is becoming a pipe dream. Queue the flood of BFL pre-order fire sales taking place in the Auctions forum on this very site and Ebay. This is what should happen, intelligent investors that had the sense to stay away from BFL can now use their $ or ฿ to buy up the bilked investors discounted hardware. This allows someone to still make a net return on the hardware, and that is how it should be in this case.


The free market punishes lack of foresight, impatience and naivete. It rewards vision, mental strength and timing. The BFL scandal is a wonderful example of how this industry attracts both types of investors in droves, and why shamelessly (and obviously) bilking the most gullible of them is still a profitable business venture.

Man you are full of it aren't you?

Welcome to my ignore list.