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Author Topic: Denial is fading, fear is approaching  (Read 6728 times)
warpio
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July 05, 2013, 03:56:31 PM
 #61

It must be great being one of those people with a huge stack of coins, they can orchestrate all of this psychological warfare and FUD on all the smaller speculators to get them to pretty much do exactly what they want, creating a self fulfilling prophecy while profiting from it and increasing their stack of coins.
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July 05, 2013, 04:16:45 PM
 #62

Waiting for a post how this price drop is orchestrated by govs, banks, fed or whatever...
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July 05, 2013, 04:20:05 PM
 #63

No way, Elvis died long time ago.

It's Nixon.


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Rampion (OP)
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July 05, 2013, 05:39:48 PM
 #64

Denial is fading indeed, those who were saying "I just buy and hold forever" are starting to ask to themselves why they should be the bag holders, if they can sell and buy back cheaper?

Welcome fear. Lots of future coming today.

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July 05, 2013, 05:47:34 PM
 #65

Lots of dumps too, that last one was expensive though. Doubt they can afford to push it much lower without some big buys.

Bull traps are expected but bounces has been quite smallish during the crash from the $90s. I guess the big one will arrive soon... But nevertheless fear is taking over.

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July 05, 2013, 05:49:09 PM
 #66

Like clockwork, we touched a 70 rebound

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July 05, 2013, 05:50:56 PM
 #67

Lots of dumps too, that last one was expensive though. Doubt they can afford to push it much lower without some big buys.

Bull traps are expected but bounces has been quite smallish during the crash from the $90s.

Imo the reasoning here was that we broke the trend of higher lows below 90. A lot of enthusiasm went out at that point. That was my personal cue to sell and boy was i glad i did. Suppose i should have done it sooner but i didnt want to unless we hit lower lows (then only would i be certain the gig is up)

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CurbsideProphet
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July 05, 2013, 07:10:24 PM
 #68

Yes, this thread is not FUD, it is reasonable non-emotional analysis of everyone else's unreasonable emotional response to market action. That's an important part of trading. Look at the chart, this is a long-term bubble deflation, and there are emotional stages for those who invest with emotions rather than reason and careful analysis.

Don't let emotions affect you too much. Obviously they play a small part, but letting them dictate your trading to the point where you deny obvious trends - that's dangerous.

I'm never all-in or all-out, (I love bitcoin/hate fiat too much to be all-out and am too cautious to be all-in.) But right now I am "more out" than usual. A lot more. Just yesterday I sold a chunk of my remaining coins at $79, and this morning my buy order at $68 was filled on CampBX. Now we're back up - but still in a long-term downtrend, so it's time to sell those again. Yay me. Anyone can do this, it's not hard. I don't know a darned thing about TA, I just know there's a downtrend and I can make money. Even if I end up mis-calling the bottom, I've still made mad BTC in a string of successful trades on the way down. I place buy and sell orders once a day. But if I deny the downtrend, I end up getting caught in a series of emotional bull-traps all the way down.

So , if the bubble deflation is normal , and you really believed in a price drop , why did you start these last week?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=245285.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=245297.0


I do what I want. If I want to make a thread claiming price will go up, I will do so. If I want to make a thread claiming price will go down, I shall do that too.  Grin
For the last 2 months I have been selling and increasing my fiat position. However, I've only been vocally bearish for the recent past - before that I was accepting that price would go lower but I still "talked the talk" in terms of bullishness, with the occasional bearish comment. I don't feel like I should have to explain this. Listen, there are a smorgasbord of different sentiments, even now. Folks here are slowly turning bearish but you can't expect everyone to be on the exact same page. No need to overanalyze poor bitcoinashley's posts.

For the record, I'm still laughing at the idiots who think we are going down to $0.50. THAT is just as much of an inability to accept reality as the folks who think we are going back to triple digits next week.




Your incessant cheerleading was a bit much for my taste but I used to give you credit for at least having conviction.  At least I thought you did, but now you're showing your true colors.  Just another noob who got burned by the bubble and is now trying to back peddle out.   

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July 05, 2013, 07:39:37 PM
 #69

maybe my sell at 43,5euro 2 month ago will turn a good move.
It's been 2 month i'm looking the chart thinking: So that's how you feel when you try to catch the falling knife...

loads of poeple still made a very speculative move by buying above 30$ must be painfull to see the chart for them.
so i agree with op fear must be coming for them.

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July 05, 2013, 07:51:53 PM
 #70


[...]

The three candles in a row point is just 3 days though, doesn't mention volume or the like. I still am confused by your statement. Also, I listed a lot of points regarding what I look at with TA, the size of the shares being sold, to me, is still significant.

I mean what are the chances that the sell sizes would be consistently larger than the buy sizes? Why not just have more volume down than up? When you throw the larger sizes in there it adds an alarm to me as the moves down like that, can start an avalanche. Know what I mean?

So again, my argument, or rather just a part of the points I mentioned, is not volume based, it is "sell sized" (I said blocks) based.

I'm cutting down the quote size, hope you don't mind.

I'll try to make my points more clear...

(1) The "three green candles" comment was an analogy, and had nothing to do with volume. The idea was: imagine someone posts "I am experienced in candlestick chart analysis", and then would drop that line about 3 green candles. You would say that that's not how it works, right?

(2) Your "block" size argument rests on the fact that sell sizes are bigger than buy sizes. Since buy side and sell side of any executed trade are by definition equally large, what you mean is that sellers' positions on average are individually bigger than buyers' positions, right? (I'm honestly not trying to nitpick, just want to clearly understand your point.)

(3) If so, then my question is simply: what prevents a whale from splitting up his buy orders, but consolidating his sell orders, to create the impression you described?

(4) The order book is a prime tool for manipulation. So if (a) the order book tells you that the whales are selling while the small guys are buying, but (b) volume analysis would tell you that money flow is overwhelmingly positive (it is not, btw) then those two observations would conflict. And I would always trust (b) more than I would trust (a), because one is easy to manipulate, the other one less so.

I appreciate your "hounding". I find it is how I learn. I know candlesticks pretty well, but not a whole lot else. So, I am learning along with the rest of you.

1) Basically yes. In other words, we have to take context and all the conditions into play.

2) If I understand you correctly, then yes. So, the sellers are selling huge amounts at once. They may break it up, but what gets me is the 5 minutes of silence and then suddenly all these sells go through. Now, maybe they are triggered by the initial sell, but my feeling has been it is the same seller breaking his lot up. The time is exact. But, it can be limit orders being set off. Perhaps it doesn't matter as the picture still makes sense, know what I mean? (Even if I am interpreting things incorrectly, it is still assisting in analyzing this move.  Grin )

3) They do split up their orders but I get the feeling as I said in 2 above. Again, if I am making a fool of myself here, it is worth saying, I don't know a lot about market depth and such. But sometimes ignorance is indeed bliss as a simplified approach (what I think I'm seeing) is correct (or at least suffices.)

4) I really only use the order book to watch the sells go through. I used to use it more to give me an idea of the market (and still do a bit, but more as a trend analyzer than a overall "now" picture).
I watch money flow, but that is particularly a dangerous indicator with BTC. I mean, think about it, the BTC's we see were all mined and not bought. (That happened later). So, unlike a stock, the money flow
can be completely off. I think my thinking here is correct, no?

I'm a candle guy (that sounds weird...) so correct me if I'm wrong...

IAS

ps - I don't really see lots of fear yet, hence as I said in the wall thread. I am thinking 50 is not a bottom, unless huge volume comes then.

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BTC = Antifragile - "Some things benefit from shocks; they thrive and grow when exposed to volatility, randomness, disorder, and stressors and love adventure, risk, and uncertainty. Robust is not the opposite of fragile.
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March 30, 2014, 01:40:31 AM
 #71

By analogy, today feels a lot like when this was posted. I like to look back and reflect on people's attitudes then. Then, as now, there was no real bad news to go with the sell offs... just people giving up on Bitcoin.
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March 30, 2014, 01:48:57 AM
 #72

By analogy, today feels a lot like when this was posted. I like to look back and reflect on people's attitudes then. Then, as now, there was no real bad news to go with the sell offs... just people giving up on Bitcoin.

Hm. As you can see above, I was around for that one. Feels different to me this time, but I could be wrong of course. 380-400 might well be the bottom, but I don't see the bear market as over yet.

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March 30, 2014, 01:53:45 AM
 #73

By analogy, today feels a lot like when this was posted. I like to look back and reflect on people's attitudes then. Then, as now, there was no real bad news to go with the sell offs... just people giving up on Bitcoin.

Hm. As you can see above, I was around for that one. Feels different to me this time, but I could be wrong of course. 380-400 might well be the bottom, but I don't see the bear market as over yet.
I am curious. How did you come to this conclusion?
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March 30, 2014, 02:05:13 AM
 #74

By analogy, today feels a lot like when this was posted. I like to look back and reflect on people's attitudes then. Then, as now, there was no real bad news to go with the sell offs... just people giving up on Bitcoin.

Hm. As you can see above, I was around for that one. Feels different to me this time, but I could be wrong of course. 380-400 might well be the bottom, but I don't see the bear market as over yet.
I am curious. How did you come to this conclusion?

His conclusion was similar to mine, except I thought drop to 420 if there actually is bad China news, then a bounce back to 450.  I guess if April 15th passes and the Chinese are still sitting around with their dicks in their hands with no news at all, it will be back to 550-590.

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March 30, 2014, 02:45:21 AM
 #75

Fear is fading hope is approaching.  Grin

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March 30, 2014, 03:01:32 AM
 #76

Strong emotions in a marketplace is a good thing, in my opinion.
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March 30, 2014, 03:03:24 AM
 #77

To be honest I am still not able to read these phases good, this was my second bubble only, in first one I felt bit of fear, in this one much less so I need one more bubble before being able to do it (and before not caring too much as I'd be rich Cheesy )

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March 30, 2014, 03:07:07 AM
 #78

I dunno. Seeing these same patterns time after time makes me a little giddy.  Cheesy

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March 30, 2014, 03:13:56 AM
 #79

I dunno. Seeing these same patterns time after time makes me a little giddy.  Cheesy

This community is Human nature on massive steroids.
Gold (for example) had a big bull run in 1979/1980 and it took over 25 years to get hot again.

We have had 3 HUGE Bull runs in under 3 years.
Welcome to the.......something........What is this place?....Where am I?  Cheesy

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March 30, 2014, 03:40:55 AM
 #80

This is a deeper bear market than last time around. Last year, we had at most five weekly red candles, after which price stabilized and generally began climbing again. This time, we've had only one uptick in the past 11 weeks, which is pretty crazy for any market. So no, I think it will be a considerable amount of time before a recovery happens... if it happens.

Night gathers, and now my bitcoinwisdom watch begins.
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