How can we reduce our reliance on MtGOX?

[Topazan]

I've been seeing a lot of talk about how relying on a single exchange makes the bitcoin system vulnerable.

I know there are other exchanges, but I can't see what they offer to distinguish themselves from Gox.  This seems like an industry where economies of scale are in place.  Gox has a natural monopoly of sorts.

There are also things like localbitcoins, and the possibility of spending the bitcoin.  The problem here is these systems still rely on MtGOX for price discovery.

What alternatives could there be that would provide both exchangibility and price discovery?

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[CompNsci]

I suspect the use of a decentralized peer-to-peer exchange is likely the best long term solution.

See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=218516.0

[Topazan]

Could you explain, in layman's terms, how such a system would work?  I have trouble picturing it.

In a sense, localbitcoins is decentralized, but it still relies on mtgox for price discovery.

[romerun]

gox just have to disappear

[WiW]

Ripple. Just sayin'.

Not XRP, not putting your life savings into gateways. Just put the paper money you want to buy/sell with, and zap it across the world to any other person. Decentralizated exchange protocol can be built on top of that.

[Topazan]

gox just have to disappear

What's to stop another centralized exchange from taking its place?

I use the OTC, And as far as i can tell, Mtgox doesnt touch me atall aside from Price.

Price is not a small thing.

How do you transmit fiat with the OTC, out of curiosity?

Ripple. Just sayin'.

I hope it works.

[Chaoskampf]

There are a few p2p exchange projects in the works. I think that's the way to go. The problem is fiat integration. Moving fiat around isn't as easy as moving Bitcoin. Most projects have the weakness of either relying on a Web of Trust, or depending on 3rd parties to perform fiat handling.

[Topazan]

That, in addition to the weakness of relying on a central exchange for pricing from what I can see.

[vokain]

https://www.bitstamp.net/
https://campbx.com/main.php
https://bitfinex.com/

https://vircurex.com/ for those in Canada

opening soon
https://www.kraken.com/
http://www.coinsetter.com/

[CompNsci]

Could you explain, in layman's terms, how such a system would work?  I have trouble picturing it.

In a sense, localbitcoins is decentralized, but it still relies on mtgox for price discovery.

I am also still trying to understand completely what that article is saying. I think the idea, however, is to use bitmessage for convey offers with their price.

[maco]

The only thing I can think of is a provider in an alternative MTGOX placement.

REPLACING MTGOX with something more demanding and unique and official.

It's hard to make a source official. MTGOX grabbed that right off the bat.

I've been seeing a lot of talk about how relying on a single exchange makes the bitcoin system vulnerable.

I know there are other exchanges, but I can't see what they offer to distinguish themselves from Gox.  This seems like an industry where economies of scale are in place.  Gox has a natural monopoly of sorts.

There are also things like localbitcoins, and the possibility of spending the bitcoin.  The problem here is these systems still rely on MtGOX for price discovery.

What alternatives could there be that would provide both exchangibility and price discovery?

[kokojie]

I thought we already did? gox was 90% of exchange volume just 6 months ago, today it's less than 50%

[maco]

I thought we already did? gox was 90% of exchange volume just 6 months ago, today it's less than 50%

How did we do that? who is our main sources now?

[franky1]

the way to do it is simple

lets say bitcoin is MTGOX valued at $70

let take a merchant that sells bitcoins and T-Shirts.

he sells Tshirts at $8 each (fiat)
he sells bitcoins at $80 each
but offers people  T-shirts at 0.09BTC ($7.20) to tempt people to buy bitcoins

other merchants start following suite.

soon the bitcoin population see bitcoins are being bought for $80 and ignore mtgox prices as mtgox is limited in its routes to fund, due to easier methods of gaining bitcoin in retail stores.

also those that buy bitcoins at $80 wont sell them on MTGox for under $80.. making MTGOX follow retailer pricing, instead of the other way around

[BitCoiner2012]

Stop using it or referencing it.

I hear all the time "Let's use CampBX. But BTC-E is at... " Gox's time will come.

the way to do it is simple

lets say bitcoin is MTGOX valued at $70

let take a merchant that sells bitcoins and T-Shirts.

he sells Tshirts at $8 each (fiat)
he sells bitcoins at $80 each
but offers people  T-shirts at 0.09BTC ($7.20) to tempt people to buy bitcoins

other merchants start following suite.

soon the bitcoin population see bitcoins are being bought for $80 and ignore mtgox prices as mtgox is limited in its routes to fund, due to easier methods of gaining bitcoin in retail stores.

also those that buy bitcoins at $80 wont sell them on MTGox for under $80.. making MTGOX follow retailer pricing, instead of the other way around

Not familiar with all the neo laws, if an in store physical merchant were to accept BTC for a variety of goods, could he also sell BTC? I was under the impression that would make one some sort of transmitter or "launderer" in the commercial sense, and you would need some expensive license. Yes/no?

[odolvlobo]

https://www.bitstamp.net/
https://campbx.com/main.php
https://bitfinex.com/

https://vircurex.com/ for those in Canada

opening soon
https://www.kraken.com/
http://www.coinsetter.com/

You forgot http://btc-e.com and http://crypto-trade.com. Both trade BTC, LTC, USD, EUR, and others. BTC-e is probably the biggest after MtGox. Crypto-Trade is new.

[franky1]

yes you would need a licence. but they are not that expensive if your a bricks and mortar store. You only need it for the area you trade in, not the whole country.

although not recommended for the small independants, but a large retailer that is not a national chain could easily do it.

but the example above is just one 'brain fart' possible way to become less reliant on gox pricing. obviously theres small print details that need covering.

other options to 'help' with licence costs are:

having a single business called "BTCSELLER" that is licenced and then classes each retailer offering its BTC/FIAT service as agents of the BTCSELLER business when doing bitcoin sales.

another option is the Bitcoin ATM company. which simply places a bitcoin ATM in retail stores. where legally its not the retailers business to 'transmit' fiat to BTC

[cbeast]

Mt Gox is the primary source of Bitcoin price/value reporting. There are better ways of distributing the Bitcoin price other than an API. Bitcoin is a decentralized and distributed system based on math. That solution would also serve the exchange price well.

[polarhei]

You operate new one.

[skilo]

btc-e.com
campbx.com
bitstamp.net
localbitcoins.com