Price drop? Thank all those that advocated working with regulators.

[Severian]

Yes if you want to remain in the shadows.

As opposed to the clear, loving light of regulatory bliss? I've done far better "in the shadows" of BTC+PMs than I ever would have in the regulated realm of fiat.

[franky1]

if you want to utilise the tool of freedom known as bitcoin.... then stop relying on the government FIAT..

while still requiring the use of bitcoin to fiat exchanges you are still relying on FIAT (government property)

its hard for you to complain about not wanting regulation and wanting the freedom of bitcoin if you do not yourself free yourself away from requiring FIAT.

bitcoin is not government property thus no government can claim ownership to then regulate it. so stop worrying about bitcoin regulation.. the whole regulations thing is about FIAT

if you dont like FIAT laws. then dont touch fiat.

[Severian]

if you want to utilise the tool of freedom known as bitcoin.... then stop relying on the government FIAT..

Because it's always wise to take advice from people that have no idea what they're talking about but like telling other people what to do.

I'm putting your spam on ignore. See ya.

[justusranvier]

Franky's totally right: if you touch fiat (in the open rather than in the hidden underground "cash-only" market), then you have to play by the State's and banks' rules.

You're exactly right, while also completely missing the point.

You're operating under the assumption that a business that works on the interface between fiat and bitcoin needs to touch it in order to operate. This is not the case. It's a matter of being creative and challenging your assumptions of what a business is and what it takes to operate one successfully.

If you think of a business as an organization that requires an office, and a corporate charter, and a bank account, you start off excluding a great many possible solutions to the problems due the way you're unconsciously limiting your imagination.

Think of a business a being simply a group of people who are all working together to earn an income by solving problems.

What tools does a group of people who are working together to solve problems need to organize themselves? What are all the possible approaches they could try in order to overcome the obstacles getting in their way? Do they all need to be located in the same city, or even the same continent?

Entire universes of possibilities present themselves if you set aside preconceived notions that were formed in previous centuries and instead remain open to fully employing the capabilities we have today.

[franky1]

if you want to utilise the tool of freedom known as bitcoin.... then stop relying on the government FIAT..

Because it's always wise to take advice from people that have no idea what they're talking about but like telling other people what to do.

I'm putting your spam on ignore. See ya.

well wishing for government to stop controlling their property(fiat), by talking about it on a forum.. hmm that'll work (not)

[franky1]

Franky's totally right: if you touch fiat (in the open rather than in the hidden underground "cash-only" market), then you have to play by the State's and banks' rules.

You're exactly right, while also completely missing the point.

You're operating under the assumption that a business that works on the interface between fiat and bitcoin needs to touch it in order to operate. This is not the case. It's a matter of being creative and challenging your assumptions of what a business is and what it takes to operate one successfully.

If you think of a business as an organization that requires an office, and a corporate charter, and a bank account, you start off excluding a great many possible solutions to the problems due the way you're unconsciously limiting your imagination.

Think of a business a being simply a group of people who are all working together to earn an income by solving problems.

What tools does a group of people who are working together to solve problems need to organize themselves? What are all the possible approaches they could try in order to overcome the obstacles getting in their way? Do they all need to be located in the same city, or even the same continent?

Entire universes of possibilities present themselves if you set aside preconceived notions that were formed in previous centuries and instead remain open to fully employing the capabilities we have today.

that is also true. but half of these Exchanges do not diversify EG having independant parties staying under thresholds to not independantly require certain bureaucracy.

this is where in the UK bitbargain works great. its not one bank account or one employee accountable.. its like localbitcoins in certain ways. which lessens the requirements of Bitbargain owner needing to be bureaucratically covered as they themselves do not touch the individual FIAT

[tinus42]

BTC price will SKYROCKET as soon at the First Fully regulated exchange comes on line.

I'm taking bets.

use http://www.fincen.gov/financial_institutions/msb/msbstateselector.html

so far just typing in 'bit' into the legal name:
bitbox
bitquick

are the only 2 fully US covered.

Also CampBX, which is registered as Bulbul Investments LLC with the MSB registration number: 31000026967575

[BCB]

BTC price will SKYROCKET as soon at the First Fully regulated exchange comes on line.

I'm taking bets.

use http://www.fincen.gov/financial_institutions/msb/msbstateselector.html

so far just typing in 'bit' into the legal name:
bitbox
bitquick

are the only 2 fully US covered.

Also CampBX, which is registered as Bulbul Investments LLC with the MSB registration number: 31000026967575

Do you have any idea what that means??  Please tell.

[tinus42]

BTC price will SKYROCKET as soon at the First Fully regulated exchange comes on line.

I'm taking bets.

use http://www.fincen.gov/financial_institutions/msb/msbstateselector.html

so far just typing in 'bit' into the legal name:
bitbox
bitquick

are the only 2 fully US covered.

Also CampBX, which is registered as Bulbul Investments LLC with the MSB registration number: 31000026967575

Do you have any idea what that means??  Please tell.

It means not all Bitcoin companies have "bit" in their name.

[justusranvier]

but half of these Exchanges do not diversify EG having independant parties staying under thresholds to not independantly require certain bureaucracy.

I bet the ones that do will be more likely to survive the next few years compared to the ones that don't. Natural selection will eventually fix the problem.

[davout]

BTC price will SKYROCKET as soon at the First Fully regulated exchange comes on line.

I'm taking bets.

Were you asleep in December ?

[franky1]

BTC price will SKYROCKET as soon at the First Fully regulated exchange comes on line.

I'm taking bets.

use http://www.fincen.gov/financial_institutions/msb/msbstateselector.html

so far just typing in 'bit' into the legal name:
bitbox
bitquick

are the only 2 fully US covered.

Also CampBX, which is registered as Bulbul Investments LLC with the MSB registration number: 31000026967575

Do you have any idea what that means??  Please tell.

ok CAMPBX is the new 'bankers favourite'
405 Seller of money orders
408 Check casher
409 Money transmitter
499 Other

for all US states..

after rechecking the listings of companies just beginning 'Bit' only bitbox is 409 registered. (guess my enthusiasm was too quick)
i could see campBX not having as many bureaucratic issues with frozen accounts then lets say... exchanges like version 1 of intersango

[ecliptic]

Multiple reasons.

1. ASICminer is a company who wants Fiat.  That is why they exist.  They have been the primary source of the coin dumping, as they take the 50% of their mined coins and sell them.  The ASICminer shareholders also probably are selling their dividends.
2. BTC was artifically high as people had to buy BTC to buy avalon chips, ASICminer products, etc.  As mining difficulty skyrockets (ASICminer going to add 800-1000 TH/sec ALONE by the end of the year, Avalon chips are 300 Th/sec, KNC miner is another 300TH/sec, BFL is god knows how much, at least 200 TH/sec, maybe up to 1000TH/sec) and the price drops, less people spend BTC to get mining gear, so the price drops even more, causing a vicious circle.
3. Combined with #2, there's no good reason to buy BTC for goods and services, only artifically BTC-only products were keeping it up
4. Regulation has literally come outright and stated that MINING = Money transmiter (i.e. illegal to do), if not using the client outright being money transmission.  California especially

Unless something absolutely dramatic changes, this downward turn will not end.  And ASICMiner will continue to drive it to 0$ as fast as possible as they dump coins.


Now add in the only way to ANONYMOUSLY mine is via solo block mining through Tor, and that nobody can reliably solo mine a block in less than a month's time except ASICminer, and you've opened yourself up to MASSIVE liability

Now that you can no longer mine without spending thousands and thousands of dollars for what is looking to be a "never-meet-ROI" investment, BTC has fundamentally changed from what it once was, to a centralized, psuedo-controlled beast.  ASICminer will have enough power to take 70% of the hashrate soon.  All they can do is sell overpriced hardware, but knowing how much AM has and what they are doing to the exchange rate, you'd have to be mentally deranged to buy anything at any price.

BTC has basically become Gold.  Completely infeasible to mine it on your own, you have to buy it from other people.  And like gold, it's value is currently dropping, but unlike gold, it has no reason to bounce back.  You now essentially have to go through government controlled systems to accquire the coin.

You gave AsicMiner a rope and they hung you with it.  I hope your share prices were worth it, they will drop as the exchange rate drops.

[Ira H. Fuchs]

That is all.

the rest of the world's population remains byte-dark effectively without such access to this info at all...Ira

[ecliptic]

Price will drop to a point such that ROI on an Asic miner exceeds one year.  Supply & Demand dictates that any such get rich quick scheme will cause a massive influx of hashing power and selloff of coins.

If the cost of electricity cannot set the baseline for sane-return-on-investment, then competition between dumpers will set the baseline for sane-return-on-investment by plummeting the exchange rate.

[Severian]

the rest of the world's population remains byte-dark effectively without such access to this info at all...Ira

'Keep it simple' is never in bad form.

[tokeweed]

That is all.

ok. but it's the person's fault if they lose money speculating in bitcoin. no one forced you to buy/sell btc.

[Severian]

ok. but it's the person's fault if they lose money speculating in bitcoin. no one forced you to buy/sell btc.

Of course. That's always a given with any commercial endeavor. It also has nothing to do with the topic.