Bitcoin Forum
December 14, 2024, 03:27:10 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 28.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Jully Nullification  (Read 2161 times)
em3rgentOrdr (OP)
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434
Merit: 252


youtube.com/ericfontainejazz now accepts bitcoin


View Profile WWW
July 01, 2011, 07:50:24 PM
 #1

Just say no.  If you are a juror and the defendant is being charged with a law that you believe is unjust, then you can nullify it by voting not guilty regardless of whether the prosecution has proven its case.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2011/06/jury-nullification

Sorry, I would normally use facebook to post articles that I like, but I have been off facebook for 6+ months, and all most of my internet friends now exist on forum.bitcoin.org anyway.  But this is totally legit post for "Politics & Society".

So what are my fellow bitcoiners' thoughts on Jury Nullification?

"We will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography, but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years.

Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks, but pure P2P networks are holding their own."
myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532
Merit: 500


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
July 01, 2011, 09:21:21 PM
 #2

Probably the only reason I would report to Jury duty. (though, if they call, I'm doing something wrong)

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
em3rgentOrdr (OP)
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434
Merit: 252


youtube.com/ericfontainejazz now accepts bitcoin


View Profile WWW
July 01, 2011, 09:55:04 PM
 #3

Probably the only reason I would report to Jury duty. (though, if they call, I'm doing something wrong)

It would be miraculous if you even make it past the initial juror screening, especially with your anti-state beliefs!  I myself was called up for jury duty once, and went through the questioning by both defendants and prosecution, and then for some reason the judge told me I could go.  Then they sent me a little joke of a check for some trivial amount like $15 for wasting my morning time.

"We will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography, but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years.

Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks, but pure P2P networks are holding their own."
lemonginger
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 210
Merit: 100


firstbits: 121vnq


View Profile
July 01, 2011, 10:33:14 PM
 #4

The guy that wrote/drew the recently memed "Go the Fuck To Sleep" book has a nice one on Jury Nullification

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110630/17192214925/artist-behind-go-fk-to-sleep-gives-away-free-illustrated-book-jury-nullification.shtml

Also has a fairly well done kids book talking about marijuana.
JoelKatz
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1596
Merit: 1012


Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.


View Profile WWW
July 02, 2011, 01:20:49 AM
Last edit: July 17, 2011, 07:34:30 AM by JoelKatz
 #5

However you feel about jury nullification, I'm sure you wouldn't be so happy about reverse jury nullification -- where the law contains a loophole, the jury agrees the accused falls into the loophole, but convicts him anyway because they think the loophole is stupid. (Not that there's anything inconsistent in this position. Just remember, many crimes have victims.)

Personally, I believe that in an ideal world, jury nullification would be a serious evil. However, our world has some massively screwed up laws, and refusing to enforce a bad law is a virtue.

I am an employee of Ripple. Follow me on Twitter @JoelKatz
1Joe1Katzci1rFcsr9HH7SLuHVnDy2aihZ BM-NBM3FRExVJSJJamV9ccgyWvQfratUHgN
Arrow
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 14
Merit: 0


View Profile
July 05, 2011, 02:07:21 AM
 #6

However you feel about jury nullification, I'm sure you wouldn't be so happy about reverse jury nullification -- where the law contains a loophole, the jury agrees the accused falls into the loophole, but convicts him anyway because the thing the loophole is stupid. (Not that there's anything inconsistent in this position. Just remember, many crimes have victims.)

Personally, I believe that in an ideal world, jury nullification would be a serious evil. However, our world has some massively screwed up laws, and refusing to enforce a bad law is a virtue.


If 1 of 12 jurors says "not guilty" then the defendant doesn't go to prison (unless they are retried and convicted).

If one of 12 jurors says "guilty" in this "reverse-jury-nullification" scenario the person still does not go to prison.
TiagoTiago
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 616
Merit: 500


Firstbits.com/1fg4i :)


View Profile
July 05, 2011, 03:36:37 AM
 #7

typo in the tittle

(I dont always get new reply notifications, pls send a pm when you think it has happened)

Wanna gimme some BTC/BCH for any or no reason? 1FmvtS66LFh6ycrXDwKRQTexGJw4UWiqDX Smiley

The more you believe in Bitcoin, and the more you show you do to other people, the faster the real value will soar!

Do you like mmmBananas?!
casascius
Mike Caldwell
VIP
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1386
Merit: 1140


The Casascius 1oz 10BTC Silver Round (w/ Gold B)


View Profile WWW
July 05, 2011, 06:25:07 AM
 #8

Probably the only reason I would report to Jury duty. (though, if they call, I'm doing something wrong)

It would be miraculous if you even make it past the initial juror screening, especially with your anti-state beliefs!  I myself was called up for jury duty once, and went through the questioning by both defendants and prosecution, and then for some reason the judge told me I could go.  Then they sent me a little joke of a check for some trivial amount like $15 for wasting my morning time.

Here is why you got sent home

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voir_dire#Use_in_the_United_States

Next time, try to blend in a little better (assuming of course getting bounced wasn't your goal in the first place)

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper or hardware wallets instead.
LehmanSister
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 68
Merit: 10


High Desert Dweller-Where Space and Time Meet $


View Profile
July 05, 2011, 07:25:17 AM
 #9

So what are my fellow bitcoiners' thoughts on Jury Nullification?

For the last 100 years or so, the following rules work well.

As a juror, never say you know what it is or you'll be expelled from the jury.
As an attorney, you may be expelled from the case for bringing it up.
As a defendant, mentioning it in court will really piss off the judge, and the jury will be instructed to ignore your statement.

Even when "REMEMBER JURY NULLIFICATION" stickers on placed on things and shown to juries, those will be edited out.

The effective method using Nullification would be to have an educated jury, sadly, you won't get one. Your best luck will be living in an area of well educated people with a low population.

ISO: small island nations with large native populations excited to pay tribute to flying gods, will trade BTC.
myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532
Merit: 500


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
July 05, 2011, 07:38:37 AM
 #10

FIJA has had a lot of success passing out fliers in front of the courthouses.

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
em3rgentOrdr (OP)
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434
Merit: 252


youtube.com/ericfontainejazz now accepts bitcoin


View Profile WWW
July 05, 2011, 08:53:53 AM
 #11

typo in the tittle

Lol!  I just noticed that!  Looks tacky, but im keeping it.

"We will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography, but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years.

Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks, but pure P2P networks are holding their own."
myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532
Merit: 500


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
July 05, 2011, 08:57:26 AM
 #12

typo in the tittle

Lol!  I just noticed that!  Looks tacky, but im keeping it.

Engrish is a sign of Satoshi's favor... Right?

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
em3rgentOrdr (OP)
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434
Merit: 252


youtube.com/ericfontainejazz now accepts bitcoin


View Profile WWW
July 05, 2011, 08:58:52 AM
 #13

Probably the only reason I would report to Jury duty. (though, if they call, I'm doing something wrong)

It would be miraculous if you even make it past the initial juror screening, especially with your anti-state beliefs!  I myself was called up for jury duty once, and went through the questioning by both defendants and prosecution, and then for some reason the judge told me I could go.  Then they sent me a little joke of a check for some trivial amount like $15 for wasting my morning time.

Here is why you got sent home

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voir_dire#Use_in_the_United_States

Next time, try to blend in a little better (assuming of course getting bounced wasn't your goal in the first place)

Smiley well im pretty bad at lying, so oh well.


"We will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography, but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years.

Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks, but pure P2P networks are holding their own."
Agozyen
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 672
Merit: 252

Until the end


View Profile
July 05, 2011, 05:53:58 PM
 #14

Seems like some people in authority don't like Jury Nullification...

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110301/02345813309/guy-passing-out-pamphlets-front-court-indicted-jury-tampering.shtml


Personally, I think it's a great idea.
J180
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 121
Merit: 100


View Profile
July 05, 2011, 06:46:08 PM
 #15

I heard it was used a significant amount during alcohol prohibition. I'd like to see people do the same for non-violent drug charges.
gopher
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 135
Merit: 100


View Profile
July 09, 2011, 09:06:47 AM
 #16

I am not an American, I live in a country which does not use the system of Jury, so my view on this is theoretical.

But by watching what Hollywood produces (too much, I think) I am puzzled if the US Jury system is not implemented hypocritically, like so many other things in the US society.

I mean, does not it say that the Jury must be made of peers?

My understanding of peers is people equal by number of factors, but what I regularly see (admittedly, on the tv and cinema), the peers are vastly unequal to the person on trial, hence the perversion of the so called jury-by-peers system.

In that case, would not be more efficient for the accused's lawyer to reject all un-equal "peers" from the jury-list until a proper Jury is formed and then ask the jury of peers to show empathy (which is highly likely to happen atm)?

But then, there is the interesting possibility - imagine a psycho- and socio-pathic, religious-extremist teenage gangster-rapist, being tried by a jury made of people equal to him - same age, education, culture, religion, race, even living in same neighbourhood etc  - has to find that he did something wrong.

Do you think they would?

This one example makes me think - you Americans face very interesting challenges when it comes to rooting demagogy and hypocrisy from your world and still remaining comfy that the world you've created and live-in is civilised and free.

Hey, it does not stop you from repeating that chant on every cheap media there is again-and-again, but does that make it true?

Peace to all!
Fakeman
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 154
Merit: 100



View Profile
July 09, 2011, 11:50:02 AM
 #17

I heard it was used a significant amount during alcohol prohibition. I'd like to see people do the same for non-violent drug charges.
Do those tend to be tried by jury a lot? Honest question.

16wEsax3GGvJmjiXCMQUWeHdgyDG5DXa2W
myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532
Merit: 500


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
July 09, 2011, 06:54:16 PM
 #18

I heard it was used a significant amount during alcohol prohibition. I'd like to see people do the same for non-violent drug charges.
Do those tend to be tried by jury a lot? Honest question.
Not really. The offender usually gets intimidated into admitting guilt or something stupid like a trial with just a judge.

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
naturallaw
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 56
Merit: 0


View Profile
July 12, 2011, 01:02:43 PM
 #19

Personally, I believe that in an ideal world, jury nullification would be a serious evil. However, our world has some massively screwed up laws, and refusing to enforce a bad law is a virtue.

Jury nullification is meant to protect people from "screwed up" laws, abusive laws, and these types of loopholes. I think it is meant to give an error-prone human component to it. I think jurors should be able to challenge the morals of a law. I think I agree with you on reverse jury-nullification though, this is like passing a retroactive law that throws people in jail.
Babylon
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 938
Merit: 500

CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!


View Profile
July 12, 2011, 02:10:14 PM
 #20

However you feel about jury nullification, I'm sure you wouldn't be so happy about reverse jury nullification -- where the law contains a loophole, the jury agrees the accused falls into the loophole, but convicts him anyway because the thing the loophole is stupid. (Not that there's anything inconsistent in this position. Just remember, many crimes have victims.)

Personally, I believe that in an ideal world, jury nullification would be a serious evil. However, our world has some massively screwed up laws, and refusing to enforce a bad law is a virtue.


As Arrow said, this is harder to do, also there are cases where people should NOT be falling through those loopholes, and i am glad that Juries can make sure those people are punished.

 
                                . ██████████.
                              .████████████████.
                           .██████████████████████.
                        -█████████████████████████████
                     .██████████████████████████████████.
                  -█████████████████████████████████████████
               -███████████████████████████████████████████████
           .-█████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
        .████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
       .██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
       .██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
       ..████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████..
       .   .██████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
       .      .████████████████████████████████████████████████.

       .       .██████████████████████████████████████████████
       .    ██████████████████████████████████████████████████████
       .█████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
        .███████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
           .█████████████████████████████████████████████████████
              .████████████████████████████████████████████████
                   ████████████████████████████████████████
                      ██████████████████████████████████
                          ██████████████████████████
                             ████████████████████
                               ████████████████
                                   █████████
.CryptoTalk.org.|.MAKE POSTS AND EARN BTC!.🏆
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!