$50,000 Loans that Don't Have to be Repaid

[billyjoeallen]

I don't own a home. I am saving.

Hope you don't rely on it cause it will be gone soon. Gone with the dollar and EUR.

Nobody is here to help you. All decisions on high levels are made to transfer wealth away from the 95% who cannot defend themselves. Are you among those who cannot defend themselves?

If I am forced to speculate in risky currencies, I'll take my chances with Bitcoin.

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[Hans0]

I don't own a home. I am saving.

Hope you don't rely on it cause it will be gone soon. Gone with the dollar and EUR.

Nobody is here to help you. All decisions on high levels are made to transfer wealth away from the 95% who cannot defend themselves. Are you among those who cannot defend themselves?

If I am forced to speculate in risky currencies, I'll take my chances with Bitcoin.

That's ok but not with all of your money. Spread your wealth into btc, gold and real stuff like a car or a house (bought at reasonable prices not next to the next highway). Just don't hold $ and € anymore or you will again be the last one standing when the music stops.

[dinzy]

I don't really see the problem. If you lost your job and couldn't pay your mortgage, I'm sure you wouldn't be whining about this decision.

You don't see the problem ?

I don't remember signing anywhere that my neighbor's
mortgage was my problem. Yet it apparently is since my
tax money now pays for it.

Try selling your house if their are foreclosures in your neighborhood.  Housing prices are every homeowner's fucking problem.  Do you even own a house?

[benjamindees]

Try selling your house if their are foreclosures in your neighborhood.  Housing prices are every homeowner's fucking problem.  Do you even own a house?

I fail to see how the price of some good going down is a problem.  Computers go down in price.  Everyone here owns a computer.  Is that a problem?

I have a box of old computer parts that originally cost almost $10,000.  Now they're about $50 in scrap.  Where's my bailout?

[Hans0]

Try selling your house if their are foreclosures in your neighborhood.  Housing prices are every homeowner's fucking problem.  Do you even own a house?

I fail to see how the price of some good going down is a problem.  Computers go down in price.  Everyone here owns a computer.  Is that a problem?

I have a box of old computer parts that originally cost almost $10,000.  Now they're about $50 in scrap.  Where's my bailout?

http://www.memorialhospital.org/library/general/stress-the-3.html#Heading62

Five Stages Of Grief

Denial and Isolation.
At first, we tend to deny the loss has taken place, and may withdraw from our usual social contacts. This stage may last a few moments, or longer.
Anger.
The grieving person may then be furious at the person who inflicted the hurt (even if she's dead), or at the world, for letting it happen. He may be angry with himself for letting the event take place, even if, realistically, nothing could have stopped it.
Bargaining.
Now the grieving person may make bargains with God, asking, "If I do this, will you take away the loss?"
Depression.
The person feels numb, although anger and sadness may remain underneath.
Acceptance.
This is when the anger, sadness and mourning have tapered off. The person simply accepts the reality of the loss

You are at phase 2: Anger. Quickly skip ahead now. Accept that it is not fair.
 

[BitPorium]

I don't really see the problem. If you lost your job and couldn't pay your mortgage, I'm sure you wouldn't be whining about this decision.

You don't see the problem ?

I don't remember signing anywhere that my neighbor's
mortgage was my problem. Yet it apparently is since my
tax money now pays for it.

Try selling your house if their are foreclosures in your neighborhood.  Housing prices are every homeowner's fucking problem.  Do you even own a house?

It seems that only people trying to sell are affected by property value. How does your house being valued less that what it was when you bought it matter if you live there? I love foreclosures! Get great houses on the cheap and then sell them for insane amounts when there are no foreclosures in the area. Then the cycle repeats!
The true american dream! To shaft the other gut harder than you are getting shafted! NO LUBE!!!

[digigalt]

You don't see the problem ?

I don't remember signing anywhere that my neighbor's
mortgage was my problem. Yet it apparently is since my
tax money now pays for it.

Yeah, and in return, your neighbor helps you when you're in trouble. As I said, I don't see the problem.

Uh, so it's all fine and dandy to steal my money, then you can help me out when it's convenient?

FUCK YOU, PARASITE! There's no other way to say it. You have no respect for man! You only have respect when its convenient for your whims and desires!

You're 17 and live with your parents. You ARE a parasite. Come back when you actually pay taxes.

Heh. Hardly. It's a consensual relationship.

Your parents are legally responsible for you until you turn 18. It's hardly a relationship they or you have control over - unless you emancipate yourself.

[ElHajjaj]

I don't remember signing anywhere that my neighbor's mortgage was my problem.

Yeah, and in return, your neighbor helps you when you're in trouble. As I said, I don't see the problem.

I think you're being intellectually dishonest in your use of the word "help", which implies a voluntary offer of assistance. My money being confiscated by government force to be redistributed to those deemed more needy is not an act of compassion, but tyranny. Lest you dismiss me as a would-be hypocrite were I the one in need, let me assure you that this not so.

I have been unemployed for many months after being downsized from a company that I was with for six years. I have not and will not apply for unemployment benefits because I don't believe that my misfortune entitles me to the fruit of others' labor. I am able to rely on myself because I made good financial decisions for myself, having zero debt, excellent credit, and a good amount of savings at the time that I lost my job. I also have friends and family that I could turn to for *voluntary* assistance if I needed to do so.

The welfare state will destroy individual initiative and make us slaves to the government.

[SgtSpike]

I don't remember signing anywhere that my neighbor's mortgage was my problem.

Yeah, and in return, your neighbor helps you when you're in trouble. As I said, I don't see the problem.

I think you're being intellectually dishonest in your use of the word "help", which implies a voluntary offer of assistance. My money being confiscated by government force to be redistributed to those deemed more needy is not an act of compassion, but tyranny. Lest you dismiss me as a would-be hypocrite were I the one in need, let me assure you that this not so.

I have been unemployed for many months after being downsized from a company that I was with for six years. I have not and will not apply for unemployment benefits because I don't believe that my misfortune entitles me to the fruit of others' labor. I am able to rely on myself because I made good financial decisions for myself, having zero debt, excellent credit, and a good amount of savings at the time that I lost my job. I also have friends and family that I could turn to for *voluntary* assistance if I needed to do so.

The welfare state will destroy individual initiative and make us slaves to the government.

This man needs a round of applause.  This is exactly what Americans SHOULD be.  Instead, the government has taught us that we don't need to be fiscally responsible.

[Cluster2k]

Try selling your house if their are foreclosures in your neighborhood.  Housing prices are every homeowner's fucking problem.  Do you even own a house?

I fail to see how the price of some good going down is a problem.  Computers go down in price.  Everyone here owns a computer.  Is that a problem?

I have a box of old computer parts that originally cost almost $10,000.  Now they're about $50 in scrap.  Where's my bailout?

Computers dropping in price would be a problem if you had to buy one now and spend 25 years paying it off.  Computers are a very special case completely uncomparable to housing.  15 years ago I bought a 1Gb hard drive for $320.  A 1000Gb drive costs around $60 today.  Try to get that sort of improvement in land size or house features in housing.  It's physically impossible.

Getting back to the general gist of the thread, most Australians are still in a massive state of denial when it comes to housing.  'It's different here', we tell ourselves.  The average price of housing in Sydney is over $500k.  Note that an Australian dollar is worth a lot more than the US$ (AU$1 = US$1.07, was AU$1 = US$0.60 3.5 years ago).  It's not uncommon for Australians to leverage up 7 to 1 income to house price ratio just to buy anything.  I myself recently purchased a small house on a 350m2 block for $300k.  And that was quite cheap.

We don't have non recourse loans here like some states in the USA, so the bank will keep chasing defaulting customers for money.  There is no 'jingle mail' here.  First home builders get a $15k bonus from the federal government, but at least half that is handed back to the state government in stamp duty.  That $15k comes from the pockets of other taxpayers to keep boosting house prices ever higher.

If China ever stops consuming minerals and other resources at its current pace, I recommend Americans grab a beer and a deck chair and watch the Australian housing market implode.  It'll be quite a show.

[HappyFunnyFoo]

FY 2012 Federal Defense Budget Proposal $670.9 billion http://comptroller.defense.gov/defbudget/fy2012/FY2012_Budget_Request_Overview_Book.pdf

P1 Number of complaints on bitcoin forum about said proposal: zero
P2 Number of complaints on bitcoin forum about welfare for homeowners (1/670th as much money): A lot

C Tunnel vision level of forum: http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQjsmktbEz7rYKQhskAVd15DvWLrZupKUhxa00s6uSfPoufqYv8

[Gabi]

/thread

[Fakeman]

FY 2012 Federal Defense Budget Proposal $670.9 billion http://comptroller.defense.gov/defbudget/fy2012/FY2012_Budget_Request_Overview_Book.pdf

P1 Number of complaints on bitcoin forum about said proposal: zero
P2 Number of complaints on bitcoin forum about welfare for homeowners (1/670th as much money): A lot

C Tunnel vision level of forum: http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQjsmktbEz7rYKQhskAVd15DvWLrZupKUhxa00s6uSfPoufqYv8

Neither of the two parties offer "small government" in any real sense and military spending is evidence of that, but that doesn't mean that meddling in the housing market is not still unwise in ways that go beyond the (minor) direct effect on individual tax burdens.

[HappyFunnyFoo]

Neither of the two parties offer "small government" in any real sense and military spending is evidence of that, but that doesn't mean that meddling in the housing market is not still unwise in ways that go beyond the (minor) direct effect on individual tax burdens.

So the government not meddling much at all in the largely deregulated housing and home loan market from 2000-2006 was a good thing?  Do you think deregulation of home loans, deregulation of mortgage backed securities, deregulation of collateralized debt obligations, and deregulation of credit default swaps are good things for the average American?  Do you work for Goldman Sachs by chance?

[Fakeman]

I would have to read up more on the American system to answer those questions (no I don't work for Goldman Sachs), but take my statement as referring to this particular instance of "meddling" probably being unwise.

[SgtSpike]

Neither of the two parties offer "small government" in any real sense and military spending is evidence of that, but that doesn't mean that meddling in the housing market is not still unwise in ways that go beyond the (minor) direct effect on individual tax burdens.

So the government not meddling much at all in the largely deregulated housing and home loan market from 2000-2006 was a good thing?  Do you think deregulation of home loans, deregulation of mortgage backed securities, deregulation of collateralized debt obligations, and deregulation of credit default swaps are good things for the average American?  Do you work for Goldman Sachs by chance?

Offering incentives for banks to back risky loans on sub-prime borrowers (i.e. Fannie May and Freddie Mac were created with the purpose of backing these risky loans) was what got us in the whole housing mess to begin with.

So yes, I agree - the less government involved in the housing sector, the better.

[cunicula]

When I'm in trouble, I use insurance. Again, something I signed
for instead of having it shoved down my throat without having
been asked.

Are you some sort of commie ?

Good for you. Insurance is not an option for everyone, like those under the poverty line. But only the rich should be allowed to live, right? Everyone else is just trash.
Even if you can afford insurance, a lot of people choose not to do so because they believe that catastrophic things never happen to them. But then it does. Should a person be deprived of their right to live just because they were naive?

And yes, yes I am.

You have the right to sustain yourself. You do not have the right to live on the lives of others. In addition, in a efficient society based on fair exchange, the poor would be much better off. The people who actually want to see these people live will be able to more effectively accomplish their goals.

You fuckin' class enemy antipeople son-of-a-landlord capitalist roader. You walk into my dictatorship, we'll put you in the airplane position.

Who decides what is 'right' and 'fair' in your system? Who made up the 'laws' for your system? Did they got voted on? Imposed by a dictator? Can dark people own property in your dictatorship? Can women? You act like laissez-faire is some freakin' religion. Fuckin' Joseph Smith of capitalism. Eat a dick, bitch. 

[Anonymous]

When I'm in trouble, I use insurance. Again, something I signed
for instead of having it shoved down my throat without having
been asked.

Are you some sort of commie ?

Good for you. Insurance is not an option for everyone, like those under the poverty line. But only the rich should be allowed to live, right? Everyone else is just trash.
Even if you can afford insurance, a lot of people choose not to do so because they believe that catastrophic things never happen to them. But then it does. Should a person be deprived of their right to live just because they were naive?

And yes, yes I am.

You have the right to sustain yourself. You do not have the right to live on the lives of others. In addition, in a efficient society based on fair exchange, the poor would be much better off. The people who actually want to see these people live will be able to more effectively accomplish their goals.

You fuckin' class enemy antipeople son-of-a-landlord capitalist roader. You walk into my dictatorship, we'll put you in the airplane position.

Who decides what is 'right' and 'fair' in your system? Who made up the 'laws' for your system?

The people. Directly.

No ineffective democracy. No sleazy politicians.

Just the people and their desires.

[benjamindees]

So the government not meddling much at all in the largely deregulated housing and home loan market from 2000-2006 was a good thing?

This really can't be quoted often enough:

"To fight this recession the Fed needs more than a snapback; it needs soaring household spending to offset moribund business investment. And to do that, as Paul McCulley of Pimco put it, Alan Greenspan needs to create a housing bubble to replace the Nasdaq bubble."
-Paul Krugman, 2002

[niemivh]

So the government not meddling much at all in the largely deregulated housing and home loan market from 2000-2006 was a good thing?

This really can't be quoted often enough:

"To fight this recession the Fed needs more than a snapback; it needs soaring household spending to offset moribund business investment. And to do that, as Paul McCulley of Pimco put it, Alan Greenspan needs to create a housing bubble to replace the Nasdaq bubble."
-Paul Krugman, 2002

Having an 'economy' that just trades assets around in a circle until the banks take away the punch bowl leaving millions of people that are just trying to make a living as the bag-holders in a ponzi they didn't know they were playing is a heck of an economy.

Thanks Alan Greenspan!