Is MtGox Bankrupt? Not giving access to funds ... says other customers affected

[bigdude]

I sent money to MtGox (wire transfer) in USD about 3 weeks ago, and for 2 weeks they couldn't find my deposits. After my bank performed a trace, they found both transfers had for some reason been converted form USD to JPY ... no problem.

I spoke to MtGox on July 1st 4:18pm (Australian Time), they found my deposits and said it will be in my MtGox account in one day. It is now a FULL WEEK and they still have not put the money into my MtGox account.

They are also saying this is affecting other clients ... is anyone else affected?

Here is the Live Chat on  July 1st:
=====================================
bigdude 12:31:
can you please check on those 2 deposits

bigdude 12:31:
Sent June 18th - USD3,142.68 - JPY292031.00

bigdude 12:31:
Sent June 19th - USD3,121.10 - JPY288568.00

Patrick 12:33:
Sure let me check please give me few min

Patrick 12:35:
Is that send under the name of XXXXXXXXXXX

bigdude 12:35:
yes

Patrick 12:37:
I have located your deposit

bigdude 12:37:
both of them?

Patrick 12:37:
Yes

Patrick 12:37:
Can you please advise Can I deposit the funds in JPY since we have received your deposit in JPY

bigdude 12:38:
yes, that is fine

Patrick 12:38:
Ok it should be done later today or first thing tomorrow morning

Patrick 12:38:
I will keep you posted!!
=====================================


Four days later, and no update, no money in my account, I sent this in on the Support Ticket:
=====================================
Patrick, what is taking so long???

On July 1st, you located my deposits.

It has now been 4 days, and still, there is NOTHING in my account!

Why has it taken 4 days to put money in my account, when you already found my deposit?

I don't understand why it is taking 4 days just to put the money in my account.

Please, HELP ME!!!!

bigdude
July 05, 2013 11:01
=====================================

The reply:
=====================================
Patrick

Hello bigdude,

Thank you for the email. Yes the issue is for most of the customers. please wait this should be get back to normal.

Best regards,

Mt.Gox Team
https://www.mtgox.com
July 05, 2013 12:58
=====================================

It is now one full week, July 8 5:47PM (Australian Time), and NOTHING.

Is anyone else experiencing this?

They have my money, acknowledged it, and won't give me access to it - Is MtGox Bankrupt?

Is this their way of trying to cover all the withdrawals flowing out of their account after the USD withdrawals recommenced - could this be a symptom of something far worse

Getting worried 

Bigdude

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

> Thank you for the email. Yes the issue is for most of the customers. please wait this should be get back to normal.

No, dumb support agent.

[bigdude]

> Thank you for the email. Yes the issue is for most of the customers. please wait this should be get back to normal.

No, dumb support agent.

Ok, but why the delay in putting the money in my account? One week from saying they received it?

[bigdude]

anyone else still waiting for access to their funds on MtGox??

[lano1106]

I initiated a wire transfer to them on July 2nd for the first time.

I did'nt know what to expect in terms of delay but they write 'wire transfer are subject to a 2-5 business days delay + 24 hour AML check'. Of course, I was hoping to have access to my funds after 2 business days.

At the end of July 8th being the fifth day and still no funds, I decided to open a ticket concerning the missing funds. It got promptly replied in less than 2 hours and the agent was asking for additional informations. I provided all the requested info. It has been 24 hours. No news from them. I have ping them back by adding a comment to the case. No funds, no feedback.

Obviously 2-5 business days delay is the optimistic scenario. I'm curious what is the average wire transfer delay others experience with them?

What is the best way to deal with them to make things moving?

My biggest complain is the lack of transparency.

'No sorry, your deposit is not in yet' is a valid answer. Radio silence makes me nervous... All I want is to be told what to expect clearly, if 10 days or 15 days delay is more realistic, so be it but say it.
and if they are not able respect usual delays, at least be clearly communicated what is going on.

[Bugpowder]

 I requested cancellation my final outstanding wire from 6/18 today.  Support said they cancelled it.  My account has not been credited 18 hours later. Waiting for a followup.

I've said it once and I'll say it again...

There is 1 implausible scenario (Mt. Gox official explanation) : Mt. Gox sends so many wires it overwhelmed the 2nd largest bank in Japan's ability to send wires.

There are 2 plausible scenarios, one bad, one worse.

Scenario 1) There is major regulatory pressure that has come down and we are only seeing a bit of it from our vantage point. Dwolla seizure is just the tip. Many banks are refusing to accept wires from Mt.Gox account. People on IRC say that wires from Gox to Citibank never showed up, called Citibank and they said they refused the wire and will refuse all future wires from Gox.

Gox is frantically trying to open accounts in other banks or in other names to disguise the origin of the transfers so it can resume sending wires out.  How long before they get caught?   This is the bad scenario.

Scenario 2) Gox does not properly segment customer funds, and without regulatory oversight the recent secular shift in market sentiment to more bearish tone has caused a major imbalance in wires in vs. wires out.  They don't send wires out because they don't have a segregated pile of customer money.  They spent all the money on hiring new people, or expanding, or speculating, who knows.  All that matters is they don't wire out till people wire in.  Gox is not a bank that has many loans out, where fractional reserve banking works, it is an exchange or brokerage where customer accounts should be segmented.  Gox has been in seg fault for weeks and would be instantly shut down if there was any sort of regulatory oversight on their operations.  This is the worse scenario.

I have heard new information that suggests Scenario 1 is more likely.  We will see.

[rograz]

This just seems like 2011 all over again, when people started moving a lot of money out of gox everything ground to a halt back then as well. At some point I had to wait 8 weeks for a SEPA transfer to clear in the summer of 2011 while during the bubble up to 31 you had your money in a couple of days.

[bigdude]

I got my $244 wire from gox fine.

This is not about transferring money OUT of MtGox ... its about massive delays in sending money TO MtGox, MtGox saying yes they received it, then not putting the money into our MtGox account to use.

[bigdude]

Just got this reply from MtGox ...

Hello bigdude,

Thank you for the email. Please note that our bank have changed their deposit way of process that is why the delay have caused. AS per the new update the deposits will be cleared out in 1-5 business days.

Best regards,

Mt.Gox Team
https://www.mtgox.com
July 10, 2013 11:07

My reply:

Patrick, what you said makes NO sense.

You said 'deposits will be cleared out in 1-5 business days'.

But I have already been waiting 8 business days.

So, why is the money not in my account???

Bigdude

No answer yet

[KeyserSoze]

When I log into Gox i see a red message just above the buy/sell tabs, "Sending a WIRE TRANSFER to your account? The SWIFT code for depositing to Mt. Gox has been changed by our bank. Please find the new information under the "Funding Options" tab. Transferring using the old code could cause your deposit to bounce-back, possibly incurring fees at your local bank. "

[bigdude]

When I log into Gox i see a red message just above the buy/sell tabs, "Sending a WIRE TRANSFER to your account? The SWIFT code for depositing to Mt. Gox has been changed by our bank. Please find the new information under the "Funding Options" tab. Transferring using the old code could cause your deposit to bounce-back, possibly incurring fees at your local bank. "

I wish my payment did bounce back ... at least I would have access to my money again.

Instead, MtGox DID receive my money, but are not putting it into my account!!!

[TimJBenham]

I got my $244 wire from gox fine.

When did you request it?

[biggie]

When I log into Gox i see a red message just above the buy/sell tabs, "Sending a WIRE TRANSFER to your account? The SWIFT code for depositing to Mt. Gox has been changed by our bank. Please find the new information under the "Funding Options" tab. Transferring using the old code could cause your deposit to bounce-back, possibly incurring fees at your local bank. "

Maybe far fetched but i think they have issues on the level of governments on their shoulders. A new SWIFT code suddenly could also mean that those who tap SWIFT transactions want it to be easy to track every transfer to Gox using a unique SWIFT code.

[dave111223]

They needed to use your money to pay people who are withdrawing.

So as soon as someone else deposits some money they'll be able to credit your account.

That's how it works right?

[lano1106]

When I log into Gox i see a red message just above the buy/sell tabs, "Sending a WIRE TRANSFER to your account? The SWIFT code for depositing to Mt. Gox has been changed by our bank. Please find the new information under the "Funding Options" tab. Transferring using the old code could cause your deposit to bounce-back, possibly incurring fees at your local bank. "

Maybe far fetched but i think they have issues on the level of governments on their shoulders. A new SWIFT code suddenly could also mean that those who tap SWIFT transactions want it to be easy to track every transfer to Gox using a unique SWIFT code.

The SWIFT is not a very big deal.

Old one MHBKJPJT

New one MHCBJPJT

first 4 letters are the bank code
next 2 country code
finally the last 2 are location. My guess (Japan,Tokyo)

MHBK = Mizuho Bank
MHCB = Mizuho Corporate Bank

They have reached the size where they got offered (forced?) to move from retail banking to investment banking branch.

Thing is that makes me unhappy is that it is kinda communicated after the facts. Could they have not planned a smooth transition?

I am discovering with horror after having done my first wire transfer deposit and without having done any due diligence before the horrible delays that people are enduring.

As I said earlier in this thread, I initiated the transfer last week on July 2nd. Went to my local bank this afternoon to query the status of the transfer. The person who did check seemed confused. She asked me if I was sure to have provided to correct SWIFT code as apparently there was no bank account with the number I provided at the SWIFT location. Based on her system, my transfer did bounce back on July 5th but she wasn't sure since my bank account did not get credited back the amount of the failed transfer.

This afternoon, the explanation sounded unbelievable but tonight I know that she was right. I Would like explanation from MtGox about why it is announced only on July 10th about the SWIFT code change when it apparently occured somewhere last week?

[lano1106]

got this crazy scenario.

I am extremely frustrated to have missed the opportunity to buy BTC below 70 USD while my transfered funds are frozen I don't know where. At the speed things go, I even wonder if I'll be able to buy BTC below 100USD.

Here is a quick scheme an exchange could do for a quick buck

Once bottom are in, froze incoming funds (which you know will be for buying BTC obviously), buy BTC with the customer funds and pump the BTC price at the same time
finally credit customer account funds and sell them back BTC you bought with their money for a profit!

[suprabitz]

probably liquidity crisis you know how many people sold BTC -> USD last week during the crash especially when they couldn't cash out for a week? a lot of merchants cash out on a daily basis to fix BTC to fiat and mtgox really played havoc on it

[biggie]

Does anyone know if MtGox is audited by a reputable thirdparty ?

[stslimited]

When I log into Gox i see a red message just above the buy/sell tabs, "Sending a WIRE TRANSFER to your account? The SWIFT code for depositing to Mt. Gox has been changed by our bank. Please find the new information under the "Funding Options" tab. Transferring using the old code could cause your deposit to bounce-back, possibly incurring fees at your local bank. "

Maybe far fetched but i think they have issues on the level of governments on their shoulders. A new SWIFT code suddenly could also mean that those who tap SWIFT transactions want it to be easy to track every transfer to Gox using a unique SWIFT code.

The SWIFT is not a very big deal.

Old one MHBKJPJT

New one MHCBJPJT

first 4 letters are the bank code
next 2 country code
finally the last 2 are location. My guess (Japan,Tokyo)

MHBK = Mizuho Bank
MHCB = Mizuho Corporate Bank

They have reached the size where they got offered (forced?) to move from retail banking to investment banking branch.

Thing is that makes me unhappy is that it is kinda communicated after the facts. Could they have not planned a smooth transition?

I am discovering with horror after having done my first wire transfer deposit and without having done any due diligence before the horrible delays that people are enduring.

As I said earlier in this thread, I initiated the transfer last week on July 2nd. Went to my local bank this afternoon to query the status of the transfer. The person who did check seemed confused. She asked me if I was sure to have provided to correct SWIFT code as apparently there was no bank account with the number I provided at the SWIFT location. Based on her system, my transfer did bounce back on July 5th but she wasn't sure since my bank account did not get credited back the amount of the failed transfer.

This afternoon, the explanation sounded unbelievable but tonight I know that she was right. I Would like explanation from MtGox about why it is announced only on July 10th about the SWIFT code change when it apparently occured somewhere last week?

wow, thanks for the heads up. I always use the same information with bankers when I am initiating a wire to there

[bigdude]

Just got this reply from MtGox ...

Hello bigdude,

Thank you for the email. Please note that our bank have changed their deposit way of process that is why the delay have caused. AS per the new update the deposits will be cleared out in 1-5 business days.

Best regards,

Mt.Gox Team
https://www.mtgox.com
July 10, 2013 11:07

My reply:

Patrick, what you said makes NO sense.

You said 'deposits will be cleared out in 1-5 business days'.

But I have already been waiting 8 business days.

So, why is the money not in my account???

Bigdude

No answer yet

I just got an even more rediculous reply from MtGox:

Hello bigdude,

Thank you for the email. As our bank have changed the deposit process we cannot do any thing from our side as of now. So please bear with us the recent update from our bank is the deposit will take 7-10 business days to credit the funds into customers account.

Best regards,

So, after querying why I still don't have my money after 8 days, even though their reply was 1-5 days, MtGox just changes their mind and says oh, now it is 7-10 business days.

What a load of BS.

They are using incoming money to pay for outgoing withdrawals ... they have no funds ... ponzi!!!