Cloud Mining Journey (with Hashflare)

[ShadowBJ21]

Hello guys,
i don't think that Hashflare is strictly a scam, but it is near to. In fact, if I consider that in ONLY ONE week:
- prices of hashrate increased by 46%
- withdraws became more difficult, we see now a doubled threshold
- fees remains the same but mining generates less earnings

This means that since now, reinvest is a suicide game, so it it better to stop buy hashrate, earnings will fall exponentially, mayby in one year i will be able to get some money but surely less than initial investment.

Definitively, it seems that here any planning is vain, maybe better not to put money and time here if conditions are so bad.

Still hope the increase is only temporary due to limited ressources ... as it was in the past.
The 0.2 minimum withdrawal is during their test. BTW it‘s not doubled but 20x (it was 0.0107 with the 0.0007 being the fee). But this is to limit number of withdrawals during test (ok, and maybe expediting the big players). But again, I expect it to be back to 0.0107 later.
For the „mining generates less“ part ... that‘s not their fault and will influence everybody.

But the worst part ist the BTC exchange rate. As somebody mentioned: As long as the BTC goes up a good portion of the increased difficulty is compensated. Unfortunately the availability of Bitcoin Cash at Coinbase and others yesterday did hurt the BTC rate a lot. But I think the Bitcoin Cash hype will be over soon and BTC will recover. So instead of selling I think of using the opportunity to get some more BTC‘s at Coinbase.

There‘s also a lot of discussion about lifetime vs. 1-year contracts. Think about it twice!
While „Lifetime“ sounds great, this is much more prone to becom a Ponzi than 1 year.

If a company is no fraud they use your money to buy new/better tech. So with 1-year contracts you can expect them to keep you up-to-date.
With lifetime it‘s like you own a car that gets older and older. That needs more maintanance and uses more and more fuel. And of course the company that sold you the lifetime isn‘t interested in updating your part of the environment.
And of course „lifetime“ isn‘t really lifetime. Most contracts say that as soon as the maintanance costs reaches your daily earnings the contract dies. This can be 3 years, but maybe only 2 or one. Hard to say.

So in my opinion a year contract allows for easier calculations on both sides (seller & buyer) and should reduce the risk that the operation turns into a Ponzi!

[mghaynes]

• Yesterday's mining results - BTC0.0025
• Total profit so far - BTC0.04
• Screenshot: https://i.imgur.com/GydxL8J.jpg

DAY 16
So here we are two+ weeks into the cloud mining adventure with Hashflare. The mining difficulty has increased and yesterday I only mined BTC0.0025 down from a previous average of about BTC0.003. However, this is basically inline with bitcoin profit calculators that now show 20 TH/s should mine about BTC0.02685 per day. You can see the recent history of my mining here: https://i.imgur.com/Q5OLhxo.jpg. As mentioned by others on this thread, ROI is always difficult to calculate based on the ever increasing difficulty. However, economists should love crypto mining - it's the ultimate perfect competition market. As profit increases, more and more people get into the business causing difficulty to rise. Ultimately, difficulty will chase price such that the most efficient miners (lowest electricity cost) are profitable and others are forced out of the industry.  Of course, the market is highly speculative which may allow some less efficient miners to stay in over time. What does this mean for cloud mining? Now is a booming time and I believe you can make money on cloud mining. In the future, if the Dash market is any indicator, I expect annual profit to approach the cost of a mining machine. Which means annual contracts will probably break even but not make any money. We can see this starting to happen now with increase in Hashflare price. I bought an S9 equivalent TH/s (13.5) for $1890. That same TH/s now costs $2970. After factoring in the maintenance fee, you will make profit with a 1-year contract with Hashflare as long as the difficulty stays the same (it won't) and the price of BTC stays over $5000 (it might). We know lots of TH/s will be coming on line over the next few months so difficulty will increase. BTC has run-up so fast it is inevitable to drop at some point, but by how much is anyone's guess.

The other topic to discuss is the Hashflare withdrawal policy. Now that I've hit the two week mark, I'm eligible to withdraw funds to my personal wallet. Yay! On my dashboard, I click the withdraw button and....find out I can't withdraw.    https://i.imgur.com/eItW8ny.png. Hashflare has temporarily changed the withdrawal policy to require a minimum withdrawal of BTC0.2. That sucks. You can see the policy here:https://i.imgur.com/QRPo1QF.jpg. Looks like I'll be waiting for either Hashflare to change their policy or a couple months until I have BTC0.2. Interestingly, I feel less worried about this policy than I have previously about other moves by Hashflare. But stay tuned and I'll let you know how it turns out.

[PeZ]

Hashflare is apparently almost out of available hashrate. The price recently went up 47%.

On December 8th, Bitmain was selling the Antminer S9 for $1,415.
Bitmain is now selling it for $2,725 and shipping it in February. That's a 93% increase and they won't ship it for two months.

I've seen this before...people get crazy over Bitcoin mining for a while, then reality sets in. They see radical price and difficulty increases, then finally quit.

mghaynes - you should be using 100% Antpool for maximum profit
https://hashcoin.co/pool

[hashray]

HashFlare just announce that:

Update 21.12.2017 15:30 UTC:
We are working on restoring BTC withdrawals for all customers with a lower minimum amount. Unfortunately, the Bitcoin network is still overloaded with unconfirmed transactions (https://blockchain.info/unconfirmed-transactions). The network fee has risen from 0.0009 to 0.0023 BTC within just a few days and is now reaching up to 0.018 BTC, which means that transactions with a relatively high fee that were broadcasted to the network in the past may now be at a lower priority to be included in blocks, i.e. to be confirmed. Because of the fluctuation of the Bitcoin network fee, the commission fee in HashFlare.io will be changing from time to time.
HashFlare.io is currently working on changing the method of creating transactions in batches (of multiple withdrawals), to reduce the time it takes withdrawals to reach the destination wallets. There is no estimation at the moment.

https://www.facebook.com/HashFlare/posts/1971410026462643

[elkoxon]

Alright lads, HashFlare is not a company to be trusted, no matter if they let you withdraw Smiley

With the current network congestion the average block reward is between 19 BTC and 20 BTC so you should be getting between 0.00019 and 0.0002 per 1 TH/s while those scam artists pay only in the range of 0.00012 to, if you are super lucky 0.00014.

Current block rewards: https://btc.com/

Calculation according to a much higher than standard block reward: https://www.coinwarz.com/calculators/bitcoin-mining-calculator/?h=1000.00&p=0.00&pc=0.10&pf=17.00&d=1873105475221.61000000&r=18.00000000&er=16350.62000000&hc=0.00

Stay away (i was defending them just few weeks ago but there you go)

I think it's worth to let people know that currently HashFlare is robbing them from about 30% of the mined Bitcoin...

Also bare in mind that HashFlare team was behing Polybius ICO that collected 25M and run with the money. EMC (Emercoin) is also their project yet they've disabled this payment method claiming that the payment gateway ceased to operate. HashCoins website is another from them, the website had not a single update since 2015. You've been warned.

[Doug E. Dee]

I don't know the source of the data for this spreadsheet but my hashflare payouts are in line with it.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15W5EuyMo7zO4SxysxmRUp3NT7nKoyyI99rZAeRBKbyY/htmlview?sle=true#gid=0

[elkoxon]

The data on the spreadsheet is not in line with current block reward. BTC network congestion is causing the fees to skyrocket and fees are included in blocks you mine. They are in line with a standard 12.5 BTC block reward but that is not the case from 16th december and average block reward is 19 BTC. I've posted the link where you can see last block rewards and i've posted the link to calculate your per 1 TH/s reward at current block reward.

[elkoxon]

Hashflare is apparently almost out of available hashrate. The price recently went up 47%.

On December 8th, Bitmain was selling the Antminer S9 for $1,415.
Bitmain is now selling it for $2,725 and shipping it in February. That's a 93% increase and they won't ship it for two months.

I've seen this before...people get crazy over Bitcoin mining for a while, then reality sets in. They see radical price and difficulty increases, then finally quit.

mghaynes - you should be using 100% Antpool for maximum profit
https://hashcoin.co/pool

The reality you should be using Slushpool during the network congestion as Antpool does not share the TX fees with miners while Slushpool does and currently the block reward is by average 19 BTC so Antpool is keeping 6.5 BTC by average from each block, anyway HashFlare steal that so it doesn't really matter what pool you wil use

If anyone has an S9 he will tell you how big the difference currently is with mining on Antpool and Slushpool in favor of Slushpool

[CyberKuro]

Hashflare has temporarily changed the withdrawal policy to require a minimum withdrawal of BTC0.2. That sucks. You can see the policy here:. Looks like I'll be waiting for either Hashflare to change their policy or a couple months until I have BTC0.2. Interestingly, I feel less worried about this policy than I have previously about other moves by Hashflare. But stay tuned and I'll let you know how it turns out.

Hashflare is apparently almost out of available hashrate. The price recently went up 47%.

On December 8th, Bitmain was selling the Antminer S9 for $1,415.
Bitmain is now selling it for $2,725 and shipping it in February. That's a 93% increase and they won't ship it for two months.

I've seen this before...people get crazy over Bitcoin mining for a while, then reality sets in. They see radical price and difficulty increases, then finally quit.

At least we have mghaynes to prove whether Hashflare really pays their customers or keep waiting for more funds deposited to their wallet to be able to pay early investors. But hashflare has raised the hashrate price, too shady for me as the demand increases but doesn't mean they can just raise it.
BTC0.2 as the minimum amount to withdraw just does not make sense at all, why set it so high, unless they don't have bitcoin to be distributed.
Too many problems to consider before investing in cloud mining as you have no control over mining activities.

[elkoxon]

Limited supply For a week now... Doesn't look fishy at all Genesis is sold-out within hours, HashFlare is on limited supply for a week now. They definitely have unlimited hashpower to sell

[cypto2017]

Just to let you know the minimum withdrawal is set to .05. Is reinvestment advisable at this point of time? thanks

[ShadowBJ21]

Just to let you know the minimum withdrawal is set to .05. Is reinvestment advisable at this point of time? thanks

No, as the price for 10GH/s is still at $2.20 (was $1.50).
Don't think that you make money with that price. Therefore reinvest isn't a good deal at this time.

[PeZ]

No, as the price for 10GH/s is still at $2.20 (was $1.50).
Don't think that you make money with that price. Therefore reinvest isn't a good deal at this time.

It's possible to make a profit under the old price ($1.5). In order to make a profit at $2.2, the price of Bitcoin would have to stay over $20k.

[kmantronix]

Hello,

18 days since my contract with Hashflare started

Recovered already 23% of my initial BTC investment.
My initial breakeven period has been delayed of 4 days from 74 days to 78 days

So far I got no reinvestment strategy but reaching the breakeven as quickly as possible

I should be able to keep that pace for the 2 weeks after Jan 1 ( next scheduled  diff change ) as so far, then next mining difficuty should not increase very much :

It is just 0.5% ahead for now : https://diff.cryptothis.com/

So i can expect to me on schedule for the next 5 days + 14 days

I should probably recover 50% of my initial investment on day 40 which is pretty good 

I do not plan to change the current strategy unless BTC surges dramatically ( then i will reinvest in TH/s) or HF gives some great discounts on TH/s

Will see

[hashray]

On 28 Dec, HashFlare payout is 0.00013183 BTC/T, net 0.00010950 BTC/T; while my friend’s cloud mining payout is 0.00018130 BTC/T, net payout 0.00016867 BTC/T, 40% and 60% more respectively. Fashflare is ripping off its customers by giving the lowest payout and highest cost. I made enquiry to HashFlare, but their reply did not address my queries at all.

Hello rangermy

Could you please let us know what's your friend's cloud mining? Genesis Mining? or what?
And what is the hash power's  price he/she buy per TH/s from the cloud mining?
Thanks.

[hashray]

On 28 Dec, HashFlare payout is 0.00013183 BTC/T, net 0.00010950 BTC/T; while my friend’s cloud mining payout is 0.00018130 BTC/T, net payout 0.00016867 BTC/T, 40% and 60% more respectively. Fashflare is ripping off its customers by giving the lowest payout and highest cost. I made enquiry to HashFlare, but their reply did not address my queries at all.

Hello rangermy

Could you please let us know what's your friend's cloud mining? Genesis Mining? or what?
And what is the hash power's  price he/she buy per TH/s from the cloud mining?
Thanks.

@All
袋鼠云算力项目2017年12月28日收益情况
每T算力比特币收益：0.0001812972
当日清算币价：105689
每T算力扣除电费后人民币收益：17.72
每T算力扣除电费后比特币收益：0.0001676723

0.0001812972 BTC per TH/s at 12/28 is impossible!
You can simply try to use a caculator for example

https://www.cryptocompare.com/mining/calculator/btc?HashingPower=1&HashingUnit=TH%2Fs&PowerConsumption=0&CostPerkWh=0

You will find only 0.0001342 BTC a day.
I think 袋鼠云算力 might be a scam...

[PeZ]

@All
袋鼠云算力项目2017年12月28日收益情况
每T算力比特币收益：0.0001812972
当日清算币价：105689
每T算力扣除电费后人民币收益：17.72
每T算力扣除电费后比特币收益：0.0001676723

"Kangaroo Cloud Power Project"
Never heard of them. Let us know if he actually gets BTC out of it.

Antpool estimates 0.00013223 BTC/Th on their website.

[PeZ]

The calculator only considers the Block Reward of 12.5 BTC, and HashFlare does not share the transaction fee 6.5 BTC per block which should also go to miners, that is why its payout is 50% lower.

Hashflare doesn't run their own pool, so they can't control what the pools pay out.

[shmocs]

To all of you who want to make a more clear idea about the profitability of these contracts... take a look here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AtXK_-mabN0RaUTlROutF-Sx0u_NE2Q0rJbsNoa9IDY

The main condition for mining profit to overcome the value of HODL'ing the bitcoins, is the difficulty adjustment.
By following the pattern of the previous year (2017) - you definitely win with the mining. Otherwise - you better keep the coins.

Just play a little bit with the numbers and let me know what do you think. Just make a copy of the spreasheet, do not edit the original document.

[PeZ]

With the price of bitcoin at an elevated value, it changes the ROI significantly. Which means any calculations prior to December are likely irrelevant, along with the opinions about cloud mining.