Bitcoin Forum
December 03, 2016, 09:55:49 AM *
News: To be able to use the next phase of the beta forum software, please ensure that your email address is correct/functional.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: True Law  (Read 1339 times)
MoonShadow
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1666



View Profile
July 01, 2011, 11:53:20 PM
 #1

http://www.strike-the-root.com/discovering-true-laws

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
There are several different types of Bitcoin clients. The most secure are full nodes like Bitcoin-Qt, but full nodes are more resource-heavy, and they must do a lengthy initial syncing process. As a result, lightweight clients with somewhat less security are commonly used.
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1480758949
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1480758949

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1480758949
Reply with quote  #2

1480758949
Report to moderator
1480758949
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1480758949

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1480758949
Reply with quote  #2

1480758949
Report to moderator
myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
July 02, 2011, 12:04:27 AM
 #2

All I can say is: Yup.

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
billyjoeallen
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 966


Hide your women


View Profile WWW
July 02, 2011, 07:56:14 PM
 #3

good article. Well put.

insert coin here:
1Ctd7Na8qE7btyueEshAJF5C7ZqFWH11Wc

Open an exchange account at CampBX: options, lowest commissions, and best security
https://campbx.com/register.php?r=0Y7YxohTV0B
bitplane
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 321

Firstbits: 1gyzhw


View Profile WWW
July 02, 2011, 08:11:52 PM
 #4

Wut? How is "the State should never have control of the money supply" not a "law" that is made up?

The laws of gravity are discovered. Political ideologies, no matter whether you are for them or against them are made up bullshit to do with humans interacting. How can anyone who uses the word "law" to mean anything other than a natural law or a piece of legislation be taken seriously?

Am I missing something here?
myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
July 02, 2011, 08:21:00 PM
 #5

Wut? How is "the State should never have control of the money supply" not a "law" that is made up?

True law is discovered.

State is given control of money.
Cock-up ensues.
State should NOT be given control of money ever again.

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
billyjoeallen
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 966


Hide your women


View Profile WWW
July 02, 2011, 09:05:18 PM
 #6

The statement logically flows from the premises. The State claims a monopoly of violence, a claim it cannot ultimately enforce without broad consent of the governed.  This consent diminishes when the populace is robbed of their purchasing power through money printing. Eventually, It is only through violence or threat of violence that people can be influenced to treat fiat scrip as money. Then consent evaporates entirely and the populace becomes ungovernable. 

Nobody can repeal the laws of economics by legislative fiat. At the margin, fear of death or harm by the state is simply not as compelling of an incentive as love of economic freedom. One might as well attempt to repeal the laws of electromagnetism.  Slavery is simply not economically viable unless you can convince the slaves to police themselves. The printing press and now the internet are making this increasingly difficult.

insert coin here:
1Ctd7Na8qE7btyueEshAJF5C7ZqFWH11Wc

Open an exchange account at CampBX: options, lowest commissions, and best security
https://campbx.com/register.php?r=0Y7YxohTV0B
bitplane
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 321

Firstbits: 1gyzhw


View Profile WWW
July 03, 2011, 01:52:22 AM
 #7

Wut? How is "the State should never have control of the money supply" not a "law" that is made up?

True law is discovered.

State is given control of money.
Cock-up ensues.
State should NOT be given control of money ever again.

It's an opinion, maybe it's a strong opinion informed by evidence. Maybe even if you had seen many instances of states having control of the money supply and cocking it up, and others being in control of the money supply and not cocking it up, you'd have a working hypothesis. If that hypothesis had been formalized and tested many many times but never disproved, not once, and everyone accepted it as fact, THEN you could call it a law. But that statement would still be an opinion informed by a law, not a law in itself.

tl;dr You can't just pull opinion out of your ass and say it's a law, unless you've got absolutely no credibility or self-respect.
myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
July 03, 2011, 02:32:54 AM
 #8

It's an opinion, maybe it's a strong opinion informed by evidence. Maybe even if you had seen many instances of states having control of the money supply and cocking it up, and others being in control of the money supply and not cocking it up, you'd have a working hypothesis. If that hypothesis had been formalized and tested many many times but never disproved, not once, and everyone accepted it as fact, THEN you could call it a law. But that statement would still be an opinion informed by a law, not a law in itself.

tl;dr You can't just pull opinion out of your ass and say it's a law, unless you've got absolutely no credibility or self-respect.

Show me one, just one government that hasn't eventually cocked up its money supply, and I'll concede the point.

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
bitplane
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 321

Firstbits: 1gyzhw


View Profile WWW
July 03, 2011, 02:44:01 AM
 #9

Show me one, just one government that hasn't eventually cocked up its money supply, and I'll concede the point.
There's no need. My argument is about the use of the word "law" to describe an opinion. Newton's inverse square law describes how classical gravity works, there is no law of "you should keep heavy things that will fall on the ground" because that's an opinion.

See the difference? Laws don't describe how things ought to be, they describe how things are. Words mean things.
billyjoeallen
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 966


Hide your women


View Profile WWW
July 03, 2011, 03:03:56 AM
 #10

Show me one, just one government that hasn't eventually cocked up its money supply, and I'll concede the point.
There's no need. My argument is about the use of the word "law" to describe an opinion. Newton's inverse square law describes how classical gravity works, there is no law of "you should keep heavy things that will fall on the ground" because that's an opinion.

See the difference? Laws don't describe how things ought to be, they describe how things are. Words mean things.

It's not a law. It's the logical consequence of a law. Gravity is a law and falling when dropped is a consequence. All governments fail at monetary central planning for the same reason that governments always fail at every other form of central planning. The economic calculation problem. This is economic law as discovered by Hayek.


insert coin here:
1Ctd7Na8qE7btyueEshAJF5C7ZqFWH11Wc

Open an exchange account at CampBX: options, lowest commissions, and best security
https://campbx.com/register.php?r=0Y7YxohTV0B
NghtRppr
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 476


View Profile
July 03, 2011, 03:09:57 AM
 #11

Physical laws are not prescriptions of what must happen. Physical laws are descriptions of what does happen. There's not some magical and mysterious force controlling the universe. The universe is objectively random but certain patterns can and do emerge from that randomness. This is off-topic but it's a pet peeve of mine that most scientists still embrace religious and magical thinking when it comes to physical laws.
myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
July 03, 2011, 03:14:46 AM
 #12

Show me one, just one government that hasn't eventually cocked up its money supply, and I'll concede the point.
There's no need. My argument is about the use of the word "law" to describe an opinion. Newton's inverse square law describes how classical gravity works, there is no law of "you should keep heavy things that will fall on the ground" because that's an opinion.

See the difference? Laws don't describe how things ought to be, they describe how things are. Words mean things.

Very well. You're right. the law should be stated: States cock-up money supplies.

The advice based on that law is: Don't give States control of the money.

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
bitplane
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 321

Firstbits: 1gyzhw


View Profile WWW
July 03, 2011, 03:29:46 AM
 #13

Very well. You're right. the law should be stated: States cock-up money supplies.

The advice based on that law is: Don't give States control of the money.
Thank you. I have absolutely no problem with either of your statements, I can't vouch for how true they are (depends entirely on who they cock things up for!) but I still think that the linked article is incredibly hard to take seriously. Cultist tricks like the redefinition of the words "true" and "law" serve to add artificial authority to whatever opinion is being pushed; it's emotive, intellectually dishonest and only works in circle-jerks. People parading around claiming to be the TruthTM, LightTM or The One True WayTM are not people you should be taking seriously, even if you share beliefs with them.
naturallaw
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 56


View Profile
July 12, 2011, 12:55:45 PM
 #14

This sounds similar to the more widely-known term "natural law."  Smiley
MoonShadow
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1666



View Profile
July 12, 2011, 03:48:57 PM
 #15

Very well. You're right. the law should be stated: States cock-up money supplies.

The advice based on that law is: Don't give States control of the money.
Thank you. I have absolutely no problem with either of your statements, I can't vouch for how true they are (depends entirely on who they cock things up for!) but I still think that the linked article is incredibly hard to take seriously. Cultist tricks like the redefinition of the words "true" and "law" serve to add artificial authority to whatever opinion is being pushed; it's emotive, intellectually dishonest and only works in circle-jerks. People parading around claiming to be the TruthTM, LightTM or The One True WayTM are not people you should be taking seriously, even if you share beliefs with them.

If you don't like my circle jerk, stay out of the middle.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
FredericBastiat
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 420


View Profile
July 12, 2011, 03:54:27 PM
 #16


Perhaps I'm beating an already dead horse here. But what I wrote here would (also) be true law. But then you've probably already read it.

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=18489.msg351447#msg351447

By the way, it is a well written article. Truth, knowledge, and all laws are discovered not invented.

http://payb.tc/evo or
1F7venVKJa5CLw6qehjARkXBS55DU5YT59
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!