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Author Topic: Wall Street Journal Frontpage Ad - 5000 Bitcoins  (Read 5217 times)
Bunghole
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July 02, 2011, 03:35:26 AM
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Who stands to gain the most if the Fed and the US financial system are bypassed?  Answer that and you'll have a good idea whom to get involved.
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July 02, 2011, 03:52:12 AM
 #22

As I said, in order for Bitcoin to succeed, it needs to be made easy and safe. It is neither. And noone seems to want to truly address this. All I see are folks trying to build up the house of cards further with futures markets and all that derivative jazz, but no attention to the obvious. Are you some of geeks so far removed from society that you can't see this?

The other issue seems to be the competing aims of the bitcoin community. Everyone talks high and mighty about the libertarian ideology behind Bitcoin, but the reality is that most are in it to speculate and gamble. So much so, that folks are complaining when the market doesn't move wildly (and presumably offer opportunities for large margins). How can one expect a true goods/services economy to build around something that swings like a windchime in a summer breeze? All this talk about getting a WSJ Ad and the like is just a call for more money to bubble up the price so these late adopters can become the new early ones. These Ponzi-scheme like mentality is getting Bitcoin nowhere.


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July 02, 2011, 03:58:49 AM
 #23

Who stands to gain the most if the Fed and the US financial system are bypassed?  Answer that and you'll have a good idea whom to get involved.

Humanity...

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July 02, 2011, 03:59:53 AM
 #24

As I said, in order for Bitcoin to succeed, it needs to be made easy and safe. It is neither.

I strongly agree, I know that others do to.
Right now we have the proof of concept. We're at the 'boring' stage. Knuckling down and building the infrastructure. Writing the unit tests. Documenting. All boring stuff that has to be done, but nobody likes to do.

Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.
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July 02, 2011, 04:02:23 AM
 #25

Attracting the common folk isn't what's needed. And yes, that is who reads the WSJ. Direct contact/networking to people who would be interested in bitcoin businesses is what is needed. If we get even more people trying to come in and buy coins with credit cards and paypal then we'll just have a lot of people who have bad experiences due to the rough client and such.

So, if we're going to market, market to high tech VCs and entrepreneurs. That is bitcoin's best bet IMO.


I work for a venture capital firm.  That's essentially how I ended up here.  The price and publicity surge in early June got our attention, but there are several reasons we've decided against any Bitcoin related projects (for the time being).  The primary reason is that the Bitcoin market share is puny.  The entire Bitcoin economy is worth less than $200M.  To put that into perspective, Zynga -- one single gaming company -- grossed nearly $600M last year.  Production and marketing of the movie the Green Lantern -- one single B movie -- was $400M.  We won't be able to justify any major investment in this market until it gets much, much larger.

Personally, I really want to see Bitcoin succeed.  But before any of the serious money can move into this market, we need a whole lot more common folk with bitcoins ready to spend.
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July 02, 2011, 04:08:39 AM
 #26

Like I've said in your other threads - advertisement is not what the bitcoin community needs. We get plenty of publicity from newspapers, and we can barely handle that.
You have my attention. I'm very interested. What should we do? Build businesses?


I agree w/ Garrett.

Building services that make it easier to learn about and get started using Bitcoin is what's needed imo.

You see, we have no business professionals to make this stuff. WE HAVE TO ATTRACT THEM FIRST.

The people here are, frankly, idiots when it comes to starting a business. They are good at technical stuff but are terrible when it comes to anything requiring sound delegation, marketing and financing.

good point and agreeing with you.

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July 02, 2011, 04:09:55 AM
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Brad,

I would think that the waiting-for-armeggedon armchair militia types that seem to constitute the ideology-driven segment of the Bitcoin community would be as equally off-putting as any financial fragility. Rebranding this "black market currency" would be harder than simply starting another Bitcoin effort.

Attracting the common folk isn't what's needed. And yes, that is who reads the WSJ. Direct contact/networking to people who would be interested in bitcoin businesses is what is needed. If we get even more people trying to come in and buy coins with credit cards and paypal then we'll just have a lot of people who have bad experiences due to the rough client and such.

So, if we're going to market, market to high tech VCs and entrepreneurs. That is bitcoin's best bet IMO.


I work for a venture capital firm.  That's essentially how I ended up here.  The price and publicity surge in early June got our attention, but there are several reasons we've decided against any Bitcoin related projects (for the time being).  The primary reason is that the Bitcoin market share is puny.  The entire Bitcoin economy is worth less than $200M.  To put that into perspective, Zynga -- one single gaming company -- grossed nearly $600M last year.  Production and marketing of the movie the Green Lantern -- one single B movie -- was $400M.  We won't be able to justify any major investment in this market until it gets much, much larger.

Personally, I really want to see Bitcoin succeed.  But before any of the serious money can move into this market, we need a whole lot more common folk with bitcoins ready to spend.

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July 02, 2011, 04:17:07 AM
 #28

Attracting the common folk isn't what's needed. And yes, that is who reads the WSJ. Direct contact/networking to people who would be interested in bitcoin businesses is what is needed. If we get even more people trying to come in and buy coins with credit cards and paypal then we'll just have a lot of people who have bad experiences due to the rough client and such.

So, if we're going to market, market to high tech VCs and entrepreneurs. That is bitcoin's best bet IMO.


I work for a venture capital firm.  That's essentially how I ended up here.  The price and publicity surge in early June got our attention, but there are several reasons we've decided against any Bitcoin related projects (for the time being).  The primary reason is that the Bitcoin market share is puny.  The entire Bitcoin economy is worth less than $200M.  To put that into perspective, Zynga -- one single gaming company -- grossed nearly $600M last year.  Production and marketing of the movie the Green Lantern -- one single B movie -- was $400M.  We won't be able to justify any major investment in this market until it gets much, much larger.

Personally, I really want to see Bitcoin succeed.  But before any of the serious money can move into this market, we need a whole lot more common folk with bitcoins ready to spend.

But you work for a venture capital firm. Do you normal wait to invest in something until it is mature and huge? The highest returns are going to go to people who know that they will be building infrastructure and have capital to buy coins before they do it.

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July 02, 2011, 04:21:34 AM
 #29

There are so many things we can do to gain public's trust. i.e. secure wallet, make it easy to transact over the mobile devices, secure exchanges, have long term goals.

Voting "Nay" on the advertisement idea.
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July 02, 2011, 04:22:34 AM
 #30

Right, so he's saying that the viability of Bitcoin is of enough question, they do not think it is wise to invest at this time. Some more maturing needs to occur before they are comfortable enough to build out services based on the concept.


Attracting the common folk isn't what's needed. And yes, that is who reads the WSJ. Direct contact/networking to people who would be interested in bitcoin businesses is what is needed. If we get even more people trying to come in and buy coins with credit cards and paypal then we'll just have a lot of people who have bad experiences due to the rough client and such.

So, if we're going to market, market to high tech VCs and entrepreneurs. That is bitcoin's best bet IMO.


I work for a venture capital firm.  That's essentially how I ended up here.  The price and publicity surge in early June got our attention, but there are several reasons we've decided against any Bitcoin related projects (for the time being).  The primary reason is that the Bitcoin market share is puny.  The entire Bitcoin economy is worth less than $200M.  To put that into perspective, Zynga -- one single gaming company -- grossed nearly $600M last year.  Production and marketing of the movie the Green Lantern -- one single B movie -- was $400M.  We won't be able to justify any major investment in this market until it gets much, much larger.

Personally, I really want to see Bitcoin succeed.  But before any of the serious money can move into this market, we need a whole lot more common folk with bitcoins ready to spend.

But you work for a venture capital firm. Do you normal wait to invest in something until it is mature and huge? The highest returns are going to go to people who know that they will be building infrastructure and have capital to buy coins before they do it.

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BradZimdack
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July 02, 2011, 04:24:10 AM
 #31

Brad,

I would think that the waiting-for-armeggedon armchair militia types that seem to constitute the ideology-driven segment of the Bitcoin community would be as equally off-putting as any financial fragility. Rebranding this "black market currency" would be harder than simply starting another Bitcoin effort.


Yes, we discussed that.  The early Internet had a reputation as being a haven for anarchists and porn addicts.  Once the money starts to flow, those impressions would erode rather quickly.  Additionally, it would actually be incredibly easy to re-brand Bitcoin.  Someone could make a web based wallet service called SuperPay that would operate on Bitcoin's infrastructure behind the scenes, but no one would be any the wiser to it.  This company could solicit businesses to start accepting SuperPay (adding SuperPay's logo to their sites, directing traffic to it, etc.) and it would all work seamlessly on the Bitcoin network.
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July 02, 2011, 04:26:30 AM
 #32

Someone could make a web based wallet service called SuperPay that would operate on Bitcoin's infrastructure behind the scenes, but no one would be any the wiser to it.  This company could solicit businesses to start accepting SuperPay (adding SuperPay's logo to their sites, directing traffic to it, etc.) and it would all work seamlessly on the Bitcoin network.

Actually, I'm willing to bet this is how it will work.

Bitcoin will be the 'gold' that backs branded currencies.

Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.
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July 02, 2011, 04:55:24 AM
 #33

Who stands to gain the most if the Fed and the US financial system are bypassed?  Answer that and you'll have a good idea whom to get involved.

One group I can think of that would see Bitcoins as a godsend are people who need to send money internationally.  In particular, immigrant workers sending remittances back home at the end of every month pay enormous fees to places like Western Union, which they would be extremely grateful to avoid.  (Heck, even when using two reputable banks to send money internationally, I've paid fees of ~$100, it's a real robbery).  Remittances are a huge money mover worldwide, about $325bn in 2010 according to the World Bank (http://siteresources.worldbank.org/EXTDECPROSPECTS/Resources/476882-1157133580628/MigrationandDevelopmentBrief16.pdf).  Find a way to get these remittances moving through Bitcoin, and you have your first truly large and diverse user base that *needs* BTCs.

Edit: Out of curiosity, I just looked up the fee to send $1000 from the US to Mexico with Western Union, and it's $20, not counting the rip-off exchange rate that they'll give you.
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July 02, 2011, 08:42:11 AM
 #34

Attracting the common folk isn't what's needed. And yes, that is who reads the WSJ. Direct contact/networking to people who would be interested in bitcoin businesses is what is needed. If we get even more people trying to come in and buy coins with credit cards and paypal then we'll just have a lot of people who have bad experiences due to the rough client and such.

So, if we're going to market, market to high tech VCs and entrepreneurs. That is bitcoin's best bet IMO.


I work for a venture capital firm.  That's essentially how I ended up here.  The price and publicity surge in early June got our attention, but there are several reasons we've decided against any Bitcoin related projects (for the time being).  The primary reason is that the Bitcoin market share is puny.  The entire Bitcoin economy is worth less than $200M.  To put that into perspective, Zynga -- one single gaming company -- grossed nearly $600M last year.  Production and marketing of the movie the Green Lantern -- one single B movie -- was $400M.  We won't be able to justify any major investment in this market until it gets much, much larger.

Personally, I really want to see Bitcoin succeed.  But before any of the serious money can move into this market, we need a whole lot more common folk with bitcoins ready to spend.

No, it's not a venture capital firm's investment philosophy, it's kind of growth capital. I guess the partner in your firm has never invested in a disruptive idea like microsoft\amazon\twitter\google\facebook or something. yeah, because they are so small and uncertain at its infant stage. But maybe they have invested a lot of money at the later stage of some firms. That's fine, you should watch over the community and one day you'll throw large money into this sector.

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July 02, 2011, 08:55:32 AM
 #35

Now the client software is very unsafe and complicated to make it safe.

1. I was told not to trust any of the e-wallet services.
2. I have to delete the wallet.dat when I don't use bitcoin.
3. So this is what I have to do for a bitcoin use:
 1) restoring wallet.dat from the encrypted file. ATTENTION, you should know how to locate the %APPDATA%/Bitcoin/ file folder first.
 2) Open the client software, and wait for about 20s until it's ready.
 3) send coin
 4) shut down the client
 5) Enrypting the wallet.dat and delete the one in %APPADATA%/Bticoin


The time needed:

1) 30s-60s
2) 20s
3) 5s
4) 3s-5s
5) 10s

Not mention that I have spend half an hour time to google out what is Truecrpyt, how to use it and where to download it to make sure it's not a software infected by the virus.

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July 02, 2011, 09:12:30 AM
 #36

easier user interface and stupid easy to use security for wallet- everything else will fall into place once these two things happen- i am the only one of four friends that started out using bitcoins and still take bitcoins kinda seriously because it's too unsafe and hard to use. needs to be more stable and easy for more expansion.

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July 02, 2011, 09:36:28 AM
 #37


bitcoin is not for stupid people .... yet.

... don't give matches to children to play with.

Step 1) Think of it as electronic gold ... (no, I mean really, alter you mind somehow and imagine that you have gold sitting on your hdd, usb, etc)

Step 2) Now, who needs to know about this and can handle the mind expansion that goes with it, not to mention the technical competence necessary to use it safely?

Figuratively, we are in the wild west when grains and nuggets and sacks full of the gold stuff are flying around, casinos, saloons full, whorehouses over-flowing, thieves and bandits lurk around every corner, few rules ... can't see it changing overnight.

Old school bankers, financiers will be the first to get bitcoin from the Wall St. Journal set, guys who really understand money ... if there are any left, but are they up to snuff on the tech.?

Seems like we are on our own and advertising it is pointless ... aim much higher. E.g. send a tech. memo to the BIS!

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July 02, 2011, 09:50:44 AM
 #38

-100

We don't need advertisement. It only makes it look like a pyramid scheme.

Bitcoin Core developer [PGP] Warning: For most, coin loss is a larger risk than coin theft. A disk can die any time. Regularly back up your wallet through FileBackup Wallet to an external storage or the (encrypted!) cloud. Use a separate offline wallet for storing larger amounts.
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July 02, 2011, 12:06:00 PM
 #39

As I said, in order for Bitcoin to succeed, it needs to be made easy and safe. It is neither. And noone seems to want to truly address this.


^this
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July 02, 2011, 12:10:27 PM
 #40

Like I've said in your other threads - advertisement is not what the bitcoin community needs. We get plenty of publicity from newspapers, and we can barely handle that.
You have my attention. I'm very interested. What should we do? Build businesses?


I agree w/ Garrett.

Building services that make it easier to learn about and get started using Bitcoin is what's needed imo.

I agree.  Before bitcoin gets a lot more attention the whole way one manages one's bitcoins needs revision.  First, owned bitcoins need to be easier to secure (i.e. wallet encryption).  Additionally, there needs to be a warning when you install the bitcoin client that the user is solely responsible for the security of their own bitcoins, and some suggestions should be made in that prompt.  People need to be able to, at the very least, securely spend their own bitcoins from their cell phone.  Those are just a few things that need to be in place before we go around proselytizing bitcoin.

Agreed.
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