Nemesis - the open source intellectual property system

[vintagetrex]

_-+-__=88*<qm!mp>*88=__-+-__-+-__=88*<qm!mp>*88=__-+-__-+-__=88*<qm!mp>*88=__-+-_

A long time ago in a galaxy far far away…            ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) It is a period  of civil  war.  Rebel  spaceships, striking  from a hidden  base, have won their first
victory against  the evil Galactic Empire.  During  the battle, Rebel spies managed to steal secret plans
to the Empire's ultimate  weapon, NSA  Datamining, with enough power to destroy all privacy. Pursued
by the Empire's  sinister  agents,  Nyan Cat  races  home  aboard her Lulz Ship, custodian of  the plans 
that can save the people and restore freedom to the galaxy…………………………………..........………  NEMESIS

[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[ Claim Specific Coins ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]   

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) A new currency is generated for each submitted claim. A portion (x)  of the generated currency is
transacted  to  a  wallet  backing  a  general use, non claim specific currency.  The portion (1-x) of the
generated claim specific currency  is  transacted  to  the  wallet  that submitted the claim.  Wallets are
pseudonymous. 

()[[[x[[[()[[[x[[[()[[[x[[[()[[[x[[[()[[[x[[[[ Mining Networks ]]]]x]]]()]]]x]]]]()]]]x]]]()]]]x]]]()]]]x]]]()

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Several categories of miners are used.  The  invention  utilizes a resource of inventors, a resource
of processing miners, and a resource of storage miners. Storage  miners may be paid from (x) paid out
as inflation over time,  according to the  portion  of the  storage  network each miner comprises for the
claim. Processing miners are paid with inflation of the general use currency.   



_-+-__=88* ||qmVmp|| *88=__-+-__-+-__=88* ||qmVmp|| *88=__-+-__-+-__=88* ||qmVmp|| *88=__-+-_

"Meanwhile, the DEA  teamed  up with the  CCA  //  they tryin to lock us all up  //  they  tryin to  make us new
============ slaves // thats that privately owned prison // get your piece today"===============

x[[[()[[[x[[[()[[[x[[[()[[[x[[[()[[[x[[[()[[[x[[[()[[[x[[[[()]]]]x]]]()]]]x]]]]()]]]x]]]()]]]x]]]()]]]x]]]()]]]x]]]()]]]x

[1715668573]

1715668573

[bonsai99]

What on earth is this?

[xan_The_Dragon]

what?

[TheSpiral]

The hell?

[FiiNALiZE]

|_337 #4x0r

[bonsai99]

And remember kids, don't use drugs.

[Zalfrin]

[Online24o0n]

And remember kids, don't use drugs.

+1

[glendall]

Well I thought it was a good story!

Could have used a few more explosions or gratuitous naked chicks but that could just be my pref.

[fran2k]

I was thinking about something like this. Like P2P Web Services, like distributed hosting. You can receive the normal block reward just mining, or sharing disk space, bandwidth, etc and having also a reward for that. Like a Freenet or TorrentCoin.

[Snail2]

Yes, this is a pretty good idea. Mixing TimeKoin/eMunie(?) with Qubic sounds like an almost perfect solution for me.

[Moebius327]

Someone used all of his BTC on the Silk Road.

[tiberiandusk]

[cryptrol]

He just should have pointed to the post in newbies section which explains his idea.
Which by the way is an interesting concept for a new cryptoeconomy .
Just search for ANARCORP .

[ranlo]

_-+-__=88*<qm!mp>*88=__-+-__-+-__=88*<qm!mp>*88=__-+-__-+-__=88*<qm!mp>*88=__-+-_

A long time ago in a galaxy far far away…   ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)  ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)  It is a period  of civil  war.  Rebel  spaceships,  striking  from a hidden  base, have won their first
victory  against  the evil  Galactic Empire.  During  the battle, Rebel spies managed to steal secret plans to the
Empire's ultimate  weapon,  NSA  Datamining,  with  enough  power  to  destroy  all  privacy.  Pursued  by the
Empire's sinister  agents,  Nyan Cat  races  home  aboard her  Lulz Ship,  custodian of the  plans that can save
the people and restore freedom to the galaxy…………………………………….....................................…  ANARCORP

[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[ Claim Specific Coins ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]

 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)  ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)  A new currency is generated for each submitted claim. A  portion  (x) of the generated currency is
transacted to a wallet backing a general use, non claim specific currency. The  portion (1-x)  of  the  generated
claim specific currency is transacted to the wallet that submitted the claim.  Wallets are pseudonymous.


x[[[()[[[x[[[()[[[x[[[()[[[x[[[()[[[x[[[()[[[x[[[[ Mining Networks ]]]]x]]]()]]]x]]]]()]]]x]]]()]]]x]]]()]]]x]]]()]]]x

 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)  ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)  Several categories of miners are used.  The  invention utilizes a resource of inventors, a resource
of  processing  miners,  and  a resource of memory miners. Memory  miners may be paid from (x) paid out as
inflation  over time,  according to the  portion  of the  memory  network  each miner comprises  for  the claim.
Processing miners are paid with inflation of the general use currency.   

_-+-__=88* ||qmVmp|| *88=__-+-__-+-__=88* ||qmVmp|| *88=__-+-__-+-__=88* ||qmVmp|| *88=__-+-_

"Meanwhile, the DEA  teamed  up with the  CCA  //  they tryin to lock us all up  //  they  tryin to  make us new
============ slaves // thats that privately owned prison // get your piece today"===============

x[[[()[[[x[[[()[[[x[[[()[[[x[[[()[[[x[[[()[[[x[[[()[[[x[[[[()]]]]x]]]()]]]x]]]]()]]]x]]]()]]]x]]]()]]]x]]]()]]]x]]]()]]]x

By: vintagetrex

Uniqueness: 10/10
Plot: 10/10
Nudity: 0/10
Ending: 4/10

I give your story a combined rating of 6/10. Thanks for the awesome read! Next time don't follow The Sixth Sense. And if you're going to follow a movie directly, please don't use their lines, like "I see dead people." It's cheap.

I look forward to your next piece of art!

[vintagetrex]

I left out a few details.  The crypto economy can take on a multi party voting system comprised of the different mining networks used.  

The first person to code the structure for the new block chain, allowing for the creation of a new currency for each claim submission, can submit his/her work as the first claim, effectively getting the coins for the submission of the code for the system.  This cryptographically verified claim is going to be worth a ton of money soon.  

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fosG7tmWTZ8>

[bonsai99]

I left out a few details.  The crypto economy can take on a multi party voting system comprising of the different mining networks used.  

The first person to code the structure for the new block chain, allowing for the creation of a new currency for each claim submission, can submit his/her work as the first claim, effectively getting the coins for the submission of the code for the system.  This cryptographically verified claim is going to be worth a ton of money soon.  

The second sentence hurt my brain, so I stopped there.

[vintagetrex]

create a system for transacting data or information into a ledger in exchange for a currency.  submit the information into that ledger, get the coins for the submission(s), profit and win!!

_-+-__=88*<qm!mp>*88=__-+-__-+-__=88*<qm!mp>*88=__-+-__-+-__=88*<qm!mp>*88=__-+-_

A long time ago in a galaxy far far away…            ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) It is a period  of civil  war.  Rebel  spaceships, striking  from a hidden  base, have won their first
victory against  the evil Galactic Empire.  During  the battle, Rebel spies managed to steal secret plans
to the Empire's ultimate  weapon, NSA  Datamining, with enough power to destroy all privacy. Pursued
by the Empire's  sinister  agents,  Nyan Cat  races  home  aboard her Lulz Ship, custodian of  the plans  
that can save the people and restore freedom to the galaxy…………………………………..........………  NEMESIS

[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[ Claim Specific Coins ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]  

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) A new currency is generated for each submitted claim. A portion (x)  of the generated currency is
transacted  to  a  wallet  backing  a  general use, non claim specific currency.  The portion (1-x) of the
generated claim specific currency  is  transacted  to  the  wallet  that submitted the claim.  Wallets are
pseudonymous.  

()[[[x[[[()[[[x[[[()[[[x[[[()[[[x[[[()[[[x[[[[ Mining Networks ]]]]x]]]()]]]x]]]]()]]]x]]]()]]]x]]]()]]]x]]]()

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Several categories of miners are used.  The  invention  utilizes a resource of inventors, a resource
of processing miners, and a resource of storage miners. Storage  miners may be paid from (x) paid out
as inflation over time,  according to the  portion  of the  storage  network each miner comprises for the
claim. Processing miners are paid with inflation of the general use currency.  



_-+-__=88* ||qmVmp|| *88=__-+-__-+-__=88* ||qmVmp|| *88=__-+-__-+-__=88* ||qmVmp|| *88=__-+-_

"Meanwhile, the DEA  teamed  up with the  CCA  //  they tryin to lock us all up  //  they  tryin to  make us new
============ slaves // thats that privately owned prison // get your piece today"===============

x[[[()[[[x[[[()[[[x[[[()[[[x[[[()[[[x[[[()[[[x[[[()[[[x[[[[()]]]]x]]]()]]]x]]]]()]]]x]]]()]]]x]]]()]]]x]]]()]]]x]]]()]]]x

[ranlo]

What is this story? 10 year old?

The intro to Star Wars

Ever see the version with frogs? It's called Star Warts.






k then, I'll see myself out...

[digitalindustry]

I like it .

Amweb

Amtrack

and

AramChek

[digitalindustry]

post your theory in the topic.

[bonsai99]

The moderator deleted all of my marketing, which I designed while reading about propaganda techniques.   

Lol...

[digitalindustry]

The moderator deleted all of my marketing, which I designed while reading about propaganda techniques.   

Can someone help me set up a project to start the corporation?

Number 1 propaganda technic is the truth .

you can post your theory in the original topic hit edit , then paste it in underlying story so it is permanently at the top.

[vintagetrex]

       x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x
:::-:::+:::-:::______        ____  _________    ____       ___           __________   _________   ____   ________ :::-:::+:::-:::
:::-:::+:::-:::|         \      |    |  |    ______|  |      \     |     \         |     ______| |    ______|  |     | |    _____| :::-:::+:::-:::
:::-:::+:::-:::|     |\   \    |    |  |    |_____    |        \   |       \       |    |_____    |   |______   |    |  |   |_____  :::-:::+:::-:::
:::-:::+:::-:::|     |  \   \  |    |  |     _____|   |    |\   \  |   |\   \     |     _____|   |______    |  |    |  |______   | :::-:::+:::-:::
:::-:::+:::-:::|     |    \   \|    |  |    |______  |    |  \   \|   |  \   \   |    |______    ______|   |  |    |   ______|  | :::-:::+:::-:::
:::-:::+:::-:::|___|      \_____|  |_________| |___|   \____|    \__\ |_________|  |_________| |___| |________| :::-:::+:::-:::
       x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x

[Kouye]

Uniqueness: 10/10
Plot: 10/10
Nudity: 0/10
Ending: 4/10

Let me raise the nudity score to 2/10.

*

And

-+-__

(requires some imagination and a table).

[vintagetrex]

// Getting Familiar with the Concept //

Nemesis is an encryption based proposal for a cipher space hosting corporation backed by the inherent value of useful information (inventions, software, movies, music)


- a new claim specific currency is generated for each data submission, a portion of this currency is transacted to the submitter's wallet, the rest is transacted to public wallet, where it is paid out over time to the proof of storage miners, storing the submitted information

- each data submission is timestamped to prevent forgery (information can be copied but the date cannot be reproduced)

- each submission (claim) can be linked to (cite) a number of previous submissions

- Nemesis has a user interface with two types of advertising space: the first is advertising in a common area, the second is advertising in an information specific area

- advertisers compete for advertising space with bids of the respective currency to the respective wallet with 0 hour contracts, the highest bidder wins

- claim specific currency can be transacted for general use currency at the market price (these are effectively two types of stock: A and B)

- claims (data submissions, new software) can be voted on to elect new source code



heres a few ways of thinking of the Nemesis concept:
1) a combination of bitcoin and pirate bay/megaupload
2) a polymorphic program enacted by voting parties


<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9vGMMPM5Lg>

[vintagetrex]

Nemesis' Game Theory

The best strategy is to change the rules to your advantage

Rules
The object of the game is to have more value than your competitor at the end of the game

2 parties (partyA, partyB) are in direct competition

Each party has a message (MA, MB) with respective values (VA, VB)

PartyA has a number of constituents NA

PartyB has a number of constituents NB

Once a constituent has been exposed to a message there is no way of proving the removal of the message from the constituent

Competing parties are allowed to pay a competitor's constituents to disclose a message

Constituents can disclose a message to a competitor

If a message is disclosed, the chance a given constituent disclosed the message is 1/N where N is the number of constituents exposed to that message by the party

Constituents make decisions based on the options with the highest expected value governed by the equation:

               EV = Summation from i=0 to n of (Pr(i) * reward(i))

Strategy: the more constituents a party has, the more likely the party's message will be disclosed

[pheaonix]

     \( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)/ raise yur dongers \( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)/

     \( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)/ raise yur dongers \( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)/

     \( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)/ raise yur dongers \( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)/

     \( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)/ raise yur dongers \( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)/

     \( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)/ raise yur dongers \( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)/

     \( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)/ raise yur dongers \( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)/

     \( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)/ raise yur dongers \( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)/

[braytz]

[Spoetnik]

[vintagetrex]

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ONzcY2a_0w>

advertisement song^^^  to listen to while reading

[vintagetrex]

Optimal Strategies / Balanced Range

A balanced range is a set of occurrences with neutral expected value.
Decision making against a balanced range is indifferent.
As a result, a balanced range is game theoretically unexploitable.
Whatever action is taken against a balanced range has neutral expectation.
An unbalanced range is exploitable.  
An exploitable strategy is not optimal.  

The current American economic climate is unbalanced.  
The expected value of an invention that takes place within an organization is higher than that of a similar invention invented outside of an organization as a result of legislation forcing independents to play a cooperative game. (while organizations are able to play a non cooperative game through lobbying to change the rules of the game) 
This means the current economic climate is exploitable by providing a non cooperative game for the people playing the game (citizens).  

[digitalindustry]

About the Author

     vintagetrex was the Xbox Live gamer tag of a 12 year old semi-professional Halo 2 player. Considered a prodigy by some due to his lack of online experience with Halo 1, vintagetrex was known for aggressive bxr combos and stylish head shots with the sniper rifle.  

     As an adult, the author has continued developing a unique skill set, including a freakish combination of logic and creativity.  The author's perceptual organization index tested at 99.7%, but he also draws immense creative inspiration from an onset of bipolar disorder.  

     After vintagetrex's first invention, which occured under the influence of LSD as an independent at age 19, he was forced into an unfair game dominated by corporate greed and lobbyists.  vintagetrex was crippled in his ability to promote his own invention due to the steep price of patent filings, legal fees, FDA trials, and getting non disclosure agreements signed.  All of these results stemmed from an intellectual property system claiming its sole purpose was the promotion of innovation.  Analyzing his own possibilities, he realized he had been thrust into a game where the only winning option was not to play.  "Write your inventions in a book and don't tell anyone about them."  The game had been made by greed to enslave young, creative minds; squeezing value out of them to boost corporate profits.  vintagetrex vowed to remake the game and turn greed against the oppressors of innovation.  He vowed to make big business the new slaves.  His creation was Anarcorp.  

+1

Sounds like the rest of the damaged human race

There is  beauty in broken things . We are definitely more interesting.  

Ive still got a couple of winners the nsa guys didnt get . , youve got to learn to throw lots of fakes .

Which is kind of , now I look at it,  your writing style.

I dont want to personally make anyone a slave , " big business" is just a sum of its parts.



The banking / financial system is just a premine scam , but in a way the ultimate , imagine this forum was full of ignorance regarding all things cryptocurrency , BTC got 100% pre mined ( as opposed to the inequitable state it is now)

But everyone was too dull to notice ...

Then the BTC preminers encouraged by the ignorance created ....

"Bipple"  in which btc was only ever Loaned into existence .

Everyone thought thats pretty good .....

A few year's go by and pretty soon the BTC preminers own all the media , all the political structure , and wield good control over the army , due to control of all the " liquid" of trade .

Say you wouldn't do it if you had of thought of it early enough ?

[vintagetrex]

About the Author

     vintagetrex was the Xbox Live gamer tag of a 12 year old semi-professional Halo 2 player. Considered a prodigy by some due to his lack of online experience with Halo 1, vintagetrex was known for aggressive bxr combos and stylish head shots with the sniper rifle.  

     As an adult, the author has continued developing a unique skill set, including a freakish combination of logic and creativity.  The author's perceptual organization index tested at 99.7%, but he also draws immense creative inspiration from an onset of bipolar disorder.  

     After vintagetrex's first invention, which occured under the influence of LSD as an independent at age 19, he was forced into an unfair game dominated by corporate greed and lobbyists.  vintagetrex was crippled in his ability to promote his own invention due to the steep price of patent filings, legal fees, FDA trials, and getting non disclosure agreements signed.  All of these results stemmed from an intellectual property system claiming its sole purpose was the promotion of innovation.  Analyzing his own possibilities, he realized he had been thrust into a game where the only winning option was not to play.  "Write your inventions in a book and don't tell anyone about them."  The game had been made by greed to enslave young, creative minds; squeezing value out of them to boost corporate profits.  vintagetrex vowed to remake the game and turn greed against the oppressors of innovation.  He vowed to make big business the new slaves.  His creation was Anarcorp.  

+1

Sounds like the rest of the damaged human race

There is  beauty in broken things . We are definitely more interesting.  

Ive still got a couple of winners the nsa guys didnt get . , youve got to learn to throw lots of fakes .

Which is kind of , now I look at it,  your writing style.

I dont want to personally make anyone a slave , " big business" is just a sum of its parts.



The banking / financial system is just a premine scam , but in a way the ultimate , imagine this forum was full of ignorance regarding all things cryptocurrency , BTC got 100% pre mined ( as opposed to the inequitable state it is now)

But everyone was too dull to notice ...

Then the BTC preminers encouraged by the ignorance created ....

"Bipple"  in which btc was only ever Loaned into existence .

Everyone thought thats pretty good .....

A few year's go by and pretty soon the BTC preminers own all the media , all the political structure , and wield good control over the army , due to control of all the " liquid" of trade .

Say you wouldn't do it if you had of thought of it early enough ?

Thats a good, logical analogy.  

I don't think I would.  Its against humanism and evolution in my opinion.  Every time I embarked on a new invention project I had the benefit of the human race in mind.  I always thought that gave me clarity.  

It is very difficult for creators to get paid now because the USPTO has been lobbied in such a way that the biggest determinant in making money through intellectual property is whether or not you already have money.  If you don't have money, you can go through venture capital, but then all kinds of things come into play such as how good you are at marketing, your connections, and your personal character, none of which has anything to do with the quality of your innovation.  If you are a talented inventor with no money, you shouldn't be forced to give all royalties to a corporation or build your own business to get paid.  Being a good inventor and being a successful entrepreneur aren't related at all.  Let someone else build the business.  Someone whose niche is building businesses not someone whose niche is inventing.  

I really believe our current system has made a logical fallacy in thinking that resources means financial resources.  The primary resource of capitalism is human capital, including the brainpower of a population.  It should be as easy to make money off of the investment of your brain power (exactly what I'm doing when I decide to start a new invention) as it should be to make money off of the investment of money.  

You make a lot of good points.  I spiced things up with rhetoric to try and compel people who feel strongly about these things to support the project.  I have other winning inventions too, but I can't make money off of them if I can't get them made through an agreement with a business and most large businesses have adopted a policy of never making these agreements.  If I post my inventions on the internet for free, they can get made but I won't get royalties.  Thats why I invented this concept.  It bothers me that they sit in a closed book where they can't be of any value to the world.  I want inventors to be able to post their inventions on the internet in exchange for a credit in a crypto ledger, let someone else make the business, and still have the inventor get paid.  

[overseer470]

oh man i LOVE lenny!

[digitalindustry]

I agree with the idea , execution is the problem .

For exampme the devcoin idea in principle is a great one except the problem is of course structure ailure points of which there are many , even a rudimentary once over exposes these .

I agree that if there were a more streamlined and effective way In which innovations were paid even in a small way to innovation then that would in no small way be a revolutionary event .

Especially if achievement was base on a decentralized system .

The reason this is not functioning now is because the basic aspects of "a market" really don't exist anymore , modern "western" nations a long time ago left a "market" economy for a more structured corporate communist structure , in which all monetary liquidity is controlled by a centralized source issued as debt , that fundamental communist structure directly kills innovation.

The only reason the "cold war" was won by the west was because there was the underlying base of a market that existed despite the communists strucoverlaying both systems .

But what had occured now is that one has become free .

But its happend at a time when information is in revolution.

[xsfgsdrwe]

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcScPaEIvPlLV-u3f9NS400u2osBjSNrtx4qmv6V0q9TyETVdWAgGw

Anything else?

[Tranz]

If you're suggesting a proof-of-storage mechanism, it's not going to work.

Enlighten me on proof of storage I've never heard of it.  

I don't think thats what I'm proposing.  

Proof of storage is basically where you would be paid for storing information, rather than doing work.

My first priority is a crypto ledger that replaces the role of government money and government intellectual property.  

Proof of storage looks pretty awesome, I wasn't sure it existed, but I think it could be a good piece of the puzzle.  Thank you.  

You should be credited for your submission

So why can't it work?

Could the proof of storage, be an encrypted message, where the sender sets the price? 

Only the sender can decrypt for free. Everyone else has to pay with POW, or POStake.

[Tranz]

It can't work because there's no easy way to verify it. Look at Bitcoin's proof of work. It's very hard to find a block, because it takes a ridiculous number of hashes to do so on average, but it takes only one hash to verify that someone has a correct block. Similarly, proof of storage would have to be the same way, that is, easy to verify. However, how do you do it? If you just ask for a hash of the data the node is being paid for storing, then that node can just store the hash of the data and keep getting paid. The only way to verify that a node is storing something is to have the data yourself and have that node send it to you, every byte, and compare it against what you have. Therefore, you have to do the same work as the node to verify the node is doing what it's supposed to.

Thanks I follow you.  So POStorage maybe out of the question. 

I wonder if it would be possible to send a message to another address, which can only be unlocked after paying a certain number of coins.

So for example:

1) Party1 sends message (+ network fee)  to Party 2  (The fee could be based on size of message and/or assigned monetary value)

2) Party2 receives encrypted message and ask. Party 2 sends requested coins back to Party 1.

3) Party1 sends private key to unlock message.


1 and 2 happen via manually intervention. Part 3 would happen automatically as part of the client/network.

[vintagetrex]

If you're suggesting a proof-of-storage mechanism, it's not going to work.

Enlighten me on proof of storage I've never heard of it.  

I don't think thats what I'm proposing.  

Proof of storage is basically where you would be paid for storing information, rather than doing work.

My first priority is a crypto ledger that replaces the role of government money and government intellectual property.  

Proof of storage looks pretty awesome, I wasn't sure it existed, but I think it could be a good piece of the puzzle.  Thank you.  

You should be credited for your submission

So why can't it work?

Could the proof of storage, be an encrypted message, where the sender sets the price?  

Only the sender can decrypt for free. Everyone else has to pay with POW, or POStake.

It can't work because there's no easy way to verify it. Look at Bitcoin's proof of work. It's very hard to find a block, because it takes a ridiculous number of hashes to do so on average, but it takes only one hash to verify that someone has a correct block. Similarly, proof of storage would have to be the same way, that is, easy to verify. However, how do you do it? If you just ask for a hash of the data the node is being paid for storing, then that node can just store the hash of the data and keep getting paid. The only way to verify that a node is storing something is to have the data yourself and have that node send it to you, every byte, and compare it against what you have. Therefore, you have to do the same work as the node to verify the node is doing what it's supposed to.

Its very exciting seeing you guys brainstorming on the subject.  This is where real innovation happens.  

[vintagetrex]

It can't work because there's no easy way to verify it. Look at Bitcoin's proof of work. It's very hard to find a block, because it takes a ridiculous number of hashes to do so on average, but it takes only one hash to verify that someone has a correct block. Similarly, proof of storage would have to be the same way, that is, easy to verify. However, how do you do it? If you just ask for a hash of the data the node is being paid for storing, then that node can just store the hash of the data and keep getting paid. The only way to verify that a node is storing something is to have the data yourself and have that node send it to you, every byte, and compare it against what you have. Therefore, you have to do the same work as the node to verify the node is doing what it's supposed to.

Thanks I follow you.  So POStorage maybe out of the question.  

I wonder if it would be possible to send a message to another address, which can only be unlocked after paying a certain number of coins.

So for example:

1) Party1 sends message (+ network fee)  to Party 2  (The fee could be based on size of message and/or assigned monetary value)

2) Party2 receives encrypted message and ask. Party 2 sends requested coins back to Party 1.

3) Party1 sends private key to unlock message.


1 and 2 happen via manually intervention. Part 3 would happen automatically as part of the client/network.

this would be good, however, if your message was really valuable then the first person to unlock might just host it on his/her own, maybe even selling it to recoup whatever they paid to get the message unlocked in the first place, effectively taking money from party 1

I do think this model is applicable for advertising space within Nemesis.  Say Nemesis is hosting a video, and sells advertising space with 0 hour contracts for the video, payable only in Nemesis stock.  Then an advertiser has to purchase Nemesis stock from the general public or through proof of work to sell back to Anarcorp's wallet (where the coins are removed permanently) to advertise alongside content.  This will be a major source of demand for the Nemesis stock, causing its value to increase a lot.  

There can be two types of advertising slots.  1 in a common area, that is paid for with Nemesis general stock, and one within a claim-specific area that is paid for with claim specific coin.  That way if you submit a good movie and there is lots of advertising revenue from it, the submitter of the movie, who owns most of the currency for that submission, will get most of the advertising revenue (due to increased demand for the currency to pay for advertising).  

[darkmule]

cool story bro

[Tranz]

It can't work because there's no easy way to verify it. Look at Bitcoin's proof of work. It's very hard to find a block, because it takes a ridiculous number of hashes to do so on average, but it takes only one hash to verify that someone has a correct block. Similarly, proof of storage would have to be the same way, that is, easy to verify. However, how do you do it? If you just ask for a hash of the data the node is being paid for storing, then that node can just store the hash of the data and keep getting paid. The only way to verify that a node is storing something is to have the data yourself and have that node send it to you, every byte, and compare it against what you have. Therefore, you have to do the same work as the node to verify the node is doing what it's supposed to.

Thanks I follow you.  So POStorage maybe out of the question.  

I wonder if it would be possible to send a message to another address, which can only be unlocked after paying a certain number of coins.

So for example:

1) Party1 sends message (+ network fee)  to Party 2  (The fee could be based on size of message and/or assigned monetary value)

2) Party2 receives encrypted message and ask. Party 2 sends requested coins back to Party 1.

3) Party1 sends private key to unlock message.


1 and 2 happen via manually intervention. Part 3 would happen automatically as part of the client/network.

this would be good, however, if your message was really valuable then the first person to unlock might just host it on his/her own, maybe even selling it to recoup whatever they paid to get the message unlocked in the first place, effectively taking money from party 1

I do think this model is applicable for advertising space within Nemesis.  Say Nemesis is hosting a video, and sells advertising space with 0 hour contracts for the video, payable only in Nemesis stock.  Then an advertiser has to purchase Nemesis stock from the general public or through proof of work to sell back to Anarcorp's wallet (where the coins are removed permanently) to advertise alongside content.  This will be a major source of demand for the Nemesis stock, causing its value to increase a lot.  

There can be two types of advertising slots.  1 in a common area, that is paid for with Nemesis general stock, and one within a claim-specific area that is paid for with claim specific coin.  That way if you submit a good movie and there is lots of advertising revenue from it, the submitter of the movie, who owns most of the currency for that submission, will get most of the advertising revenue (due to increased demand for the currency to pay for advertising).  

Agreed it may not work as you stated here. I was more or less thinking of putting plans for some invention out there as an encrypted message, imbedded into the blockchain.

You could target them to someone specific, or put them out there for general consumption. For instance, lets say I have a new invention for a fuel cell that runs a laptop for 1000 hours at a time.

I would break the plans out into 10 parts, and then put them into the block chain encrypted. Each part of the whole plan would be priced at higher ask, with the first message at 1 btc. Then the final one at 100, or whatever.  If someone wanted to pay me the full price for all parts and then make them freely available, so what? I already got my ask.

[vintagetrex]

It can't work because there's no easy way to verify it. Look at Bitcoin's proof of work. It's very hard to find a block, because it takes a ridiculous number of hashes to do so on average, but it takes only one hash to verify that someone has a correct block. Similarly, proof of storage would have to be the same way, that is, easy to verify. However, how do you do it? If you just ask for a hash of the data the node is being paid for storing, then that node can just store the hash of the data and keep getting paid. The only way to verify that a node is storing something is to have the data yourself and have that node send it to you, every byte, and compare it against what you have. Therefore, you have to do the same work as the node to verify the node is doing what it's supposed to.

Thanks I follow you.  So POStorage maybe out of the question.  

I wonder if it would be possible to send a message to another address, which can only be unlocked after paying a certain number of coins.

So for example:

1) Party1 sends message (+ network fee)  to Party 2  (The fee could be based on size of message and/or assigned monetary value)

2) Party2 receives encrypted message and ask. Party 2 sends requested coins back to Party 1.

3) Party1 sends private key to unlock message.


1 and 2 happen via manually intervention. Part 3 would happen automatically as part of the client/network.

this would be good, however, if your message was really valuable then the first person to unlock might just host it on his/her own, maybe even selling it to recoup whatever they paid to get the message unlocked in the first place, effectively taking money from party 1

I do think this model is applicable for advertising space within Nemesis.  Say Nemesis is hosting a video, and sells advertising space with 0 hour contracts for the video, payable only in Nemesis stock.  Then an advertiser has to purchase Nemesis stock from the general public or through proof of work to sell back to Anarcorp's wallet (where the coins are removed permanently) to advertise alongside content.  This will be a major source of demand for the Nemesis stock, causing its value to increase a lot.  

There can be two types of advertising slots.  1 in a common area, that is paid for with Nemesis general stock, and one within a claim-specific area that is paid for with claim specific coin.  That way if you submit a good movie and there is lots of advertising revenue from it, the submitter of the movie, who owns most of the currency for that submission, will get most of the advertising revenue (due to increased demand for the currency to pay for advertising).  

Agreed it may not work as you stated here. I was more or less thinking of putting plans for some invention out there as an encrypted message, imbedded into the blockchain.

You could target them to someone specific, or put them out there for general consumption. For instance, lets say I have a new invention for a fuel cell that runs a laptop for 1000 hours at a time.

I would break the plans out into 10 parts, and then put them into the block chain encrypted. Each part of the whole plan would be priced at higher ask, with the first message at 1 btc. Then the final one at 100, or whatever.  If someone wanted to pay me the full price for all parts and then make them freely available, so what? I already got my ask.

Yes this can be done and isn't a bad idea although it isn't perfect.  My own philosophy is to oppose this format for a few reasons:  How can the buyer know the invention is valuable without seeing it? (short answer: it can't be done)  This would mean the seller would have to rely on a reputation system to sell his/her inventions at a decent price, with the price being only based on the quality of previous inventions sold.  In my opinion, invention is one of the most egalitarian processes of our society, so relying on a purely hierarchical method of valuation (the reputation system) isn't ideal. 

What you propose isn't far off from how many VC's operate today.  They look for people with a reputation and history of business success and innovative ideas.  This makes it almost impossible for people to have success with their first innovation no matter how good it is.  Also, if you only invented one thing ever, and it happened to be the greatest invention of all time, you certainly wouldn't be compensated accordingly.  Nobody is going to shell out 100 BTC to some "random" claiming to have reinvented the wheel. 

[Tranz]

Yes this can be done and isn't a bad idea although it isn't perfect.  My own philosophy is to oppose this format for a few reasons:  How can the buyer know the invention is valuable without seeing it? (short answer: it can't be done)  This would mean the seller would have to rely on a reputation system to sell his/her inventions at a decent price, with the price being only based on the quality of previous inventions sold.  In my opinion, invention is one of the most egalitarian processes of our society, so relying on a purely hierarchical method of valuation (the reputation system) isn't ideal. 

What you propose isn't far off from how many VC's operate today.  They look for people with a reputation and history of business success and innovative ideas.  This makes it almost impossible for people to have success with their first innovation no matter how good it is.  Also, if you only invented one thing ever, and it happened to be the greatest invention of all time, you certainly wouldn't be compensated accordingly.  Nobody is going to shell out 100 BTC to some "random" claiming to have reinvented the wheel. 

The first message could be a very small fee, it would could be the proof, maybe a whitepaper, video, your own credentials, along with the addresses and price for the other sections of the invention.

As you get deeper into the invention the price goes up, until the final piece which at that point the whole thing can be created.

If you were doing this with bitcoin, the first message would be a video of a working QT, and the whitepaper, priced at a few pennies. The last message would be main.cpp, priced at thousands of dollars.  The other modules would be in there, each at a little bit higher price. Yes at some point someone could get btc to work with their own main.cpp.

[vintagetrex]

Yes this can be done and isn't a bad idea although it isn't perfect.  My own philosophy is to oppose this format for a few reasons:  How can the buyer know the invention is valuable without seeing it? (short answer: it can't be done)  This would mean the seller would have to rely on a reputation system to sell his/her inventions at a decent price, with the price being only based on the quality of previous inventions sold.  In my opinion, invention is one of the most egalitarian processes of our society, so relying on a purely hierarchical method of valuation (the reputation system) isn't ideal.  

What you propose isn't far off from how many VC's operate today.  They look for people with a reputation and history of business success and innovative ideas.  This makes it almost impossible for people to have success with their first innovation no matter how good it is.  Also, if you only invented one thing ever, and it happened to be the greatest invention of all time, you certainly wouldn't be compensated accordingly.  Nobody is going to shell out 100 BTC to some "random" claiming to have reinvented the wheel.  

The first message could be a very small fee, it would could be the proof, maybe a whitepaper, video, your own credentials, along with the addresses and price for the other sections of the invention.

As you get deeper into the invention the price goes up, until the final piece which at that point the whole thing can be created.

If you were doing this with bitcoin, the first message would be a video of a working QT, and the whitepaper, priced at a few pennies. The last message would be main.cpp, priced at thousands of dollars.  The other modules would be in there, each at a little bit higher price. Yes at some point someone could get btc to work with their own main.cpp.

This is one approach.  I think it is close to what I am proposing, but maybe not quite feasible with Bitcoin's block chain, because I've heard there are large fees for storing things in the blockchain.  

Technical note: storing stuff in bitcoin's block chain would likely add more burden to the system and I doubt the fact that there is data hidden in the block chain with no utility to anybody else because it is encrypted will increase the overall value of bitcoin's market cap.  

I like how you are thinking.  For example: store your credentials as a movie maker, store a trailer for your upcoming film, sell the code/data for your hit film to the highest bidder.  This is a fundamentally closed information system.  

If a person buys the invention, he/she will likely keep the information undisclosed to prevent competition from making his new product, which is completely within his/her rights.  Lets assume inventor1 and buyer1 have an agreement that inventor1 will not well sell or give away his invention.  This means another inventor cannot come along and improve on the design without inventing the initial invention or owning the invention.  Furthermore, there is incentive for a second inventor (inventor2) to invent THE SAME THING and sell the same invention through a completely different transaction to the same or a different buyer (a separate inventor spends his mental capacity reinventing the technology to sell it, after all the invention has never been publicly disclosed).  This is basically a complete waste of society's mental resources which are finite.  (two investments of brain power, one invention)  That second inventor could have used his/her brain power to invent something completely novel.  

I am striving for an open information system, like YouTube, but you get tradable credits for your submissions.  Think back on the arguments for why bitcoin was valuable before people recognized it as valuable (8 months ago or more).  One of the arguments was that it was more efficient/cheaper than other electronic payment systems, and as a result, the people who used bitcoin had more money to spend on things by saving from using bitcoin, so they naturally had more money to reinvest into BTC.  That's how I want this economy to get its value, through increased efficiency.  This increased efficiency was often pennies or even fractions of pennies per transaction.  Keep in mind it is over $8000 to file a utility patent with the USPTO once, patents are often filed multiple times before being awarded, and each patent defense lawsuit can cost both sides millions of dollars in attorney fees.  Nemesis will eliminate these inefficiencies.  

You cannot create monetary value out of thin air.  An argument for the value behind the USD is that it must be used to pay taxes.  It must also be used to pay fees to the USPTO, which is essentially a tax.  Citizens of the internet can take this value from government money for their own currency. 

[vintagetrex]

Criticism of U.S. Intellectual Property

One of the flaws in today's society that I want to attack is the privatization of information that belongs in the public domain.  Right now there are billions of dollars in trade secrets that are forcibly privatized and censored from the public.  This information needs to be public so that the public may be informed and able to use the information to innovate.  

WikiLeaks did a tremendous job of revealing what is behind this modern iron curtain.  Julian Assange's statement, "this is not the liberal democracy we were promised, this is an encroaching, privatized censorship regime" is accurate.  One thing that organization did well was create a hit list for the world's most wanted confidential government documents.  However, without a credit system, WikiLeak's hit list was little more than a list.  They could not credit a person with the disclosure, or provide financial incentive for that to take place.  Nemesis has the ability to do this.  If the public wants information, and individuals are willing to chip in tiny amounts for it, a real hit list with real bounties will occur on confidential corporate and government documents; while maintaing anonymity for the disclosing party.  

The USPTO allows corporations to file patents now without listing an inventor.  Who should be credited for some of these inventions?  An unpaid intern as in my case?  An underpaid employee?  An employee's family member?  If corporations can get away with anonymous inventors so can the public.  Let the public anonymously disclose whatever information they like and allow them to be compensated accordingly at the same time.  

[vintagetrex]

EV for a person who could innovate = (chance you innovate) * (monetary value of innovation) * (1 - chance your innovation is stolen)

[vintagetrex]

I like the idea of needing a percentage of coins to open another secret file.  That would be awesome because the file could contain a key to decrypt a company wallet or something.  This can already be done using some type of encryption where the key is broken up into pieces and distributed.  A certain percentage of the keys is needed to decrypt the wallet.  (the name I can't remember)

example

A company's encrypted wallet file is broadcast;
the key to decrypt is in a hidden file in the ledger, which requires >x% ownership of the claim specific currency to see

I don't believe this should be the model for information, but it is a good model for how a company can use a submission as company stock, effectively taking their company public.  I would include many possibilities in Nemesis for how a submission can be made (private, public, and a mix of both which would require a certain percentage of outstanding shares/currency to see the file).  Of course the producer of information should be offered a number of options for disclosure.  

[vintagetrex]

How the Middle Class Exploits the Producing Class

The intellectual producing class increases the wealth of humanity by removing obstacles that once existed as an inefficiency in the economy.  Scientists, innovators, and content creators, produce new wealth for society by using their brains to produce new information that has value to people.  Unfortunately, monetary compensation does not mirror wealth creation.  

Monetary compensation for this type of wealth creation is regulated by the USPTO and the Federal Reserve.  Legislation for the USPTO and the Fed are created by a coalition of voters and corporate lobbyists.  These groups attempt to divert monetary compensation from producers to themselves for their own self interest.  There is a symbiotic relationship between corporations and the middle class: the middle class votes along with corporate lobbyists in exchange for higher paying jobs and more jobs, which corporations can afford by rerouting monetary compensation from wealth producers to themselves.  Both the middle class and corporate America are dependent on this system.  They have a parasitic relationship with the producing class.  

The needs of this coalition grow over time, becoming more dependent on money diverted from producers.  Intellectual Property laws are on a one way path, squeezing money from individual producers while inflating monetary compensation for production inside large organizations.  
...

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTL4qIIxg8A>

I know you're out there. I can feel you now. I know that you're afraid. You're afraid of us. You're afraid of change. I don't know the future. I didn't come here to tell you how this is going to end. I came here to tell you how it's going to begin. I'm going to hang up this phone, and then I'm going to show these people what you don't want them to see. I'm going to show them a world without you. A world without rules and controls, without borders or boundaries; a world where anything is possible. Where we go from there is a choice I leave to you.

[vintagetrex]

We had a vision for a crypto anarchist democratic republic very different from bitcoin.  The concept subverts the USPTO and the Federal Reserve in a new way.  There was lots of work needing to be done before this concept would come to life, including an implementable proof of storage crypto system.  We recently made great headway on this problem.  

[Francisco]

vintagetrex - I haven't been able to digest all that you're saying but I think you need to look at how to build this system on top of the existing blockchain, either with MasterCoin or something similar.

[vintagetrex]

vintagetrex - I haven't been able to digest all that you're saying but I think you need to look at how to build this system on top of the existing blockchain, either with MasterCoin or something similar.

Thank you for the lead.  I believe in two types of inherent value: networked people and networked information.  The internet does both of these.  You are absolutely right.  I am looking into doing exactly what you suggested.  


Update: I looked into this and I don't think it will work well.  Bitcoin is too limited when it comes to storing information.  Bitcoin will not take the form of a unified information system.  At best it will have a few information submissions backed by a Mastercoin/altcoin.  Also, I am unhappy with how changes are made to bitcoin.  One reason why it won't work well is because anybody who submits an invention and gets to make their own rules, will probably give oneself all coins associated with the invention, rather than a set amount and allowing the market to make an equilibrium on the coins via POS

[cryptrol]

Silicon Valley ?
Not a nice place for such a disruptive concept IMHO.

Good luck anyway

[vintagetrex]

Silicon Valley ?
Not a nice place for such a disruptive concept IMHO.

Good luck anyway

thank you.

If you like change, free markets, and adequate compensation of the fittest then Nemesis is your friend.  Regulation of business will be performed by algorithms, math, and the people, rather than government.  Enforcement of Anti-trust law on Nemesis by the Feds will be *intractable*, but there should be ample competition stemming from the open source movement.  I see a future where most communities own a 3D printer.  Rather than going to Wal-Mart, people will access designs for chairs, tables, cutlery, plates, and guns through Nemesis and print their own.  Industry will be transformed, but not destroyed.  

[cryptrol]

I can also imagine this future, but to be honest, Silicon Valley was a nice place at the eighties, when the most disruptive technologies (now obsolete) where being created there.
I don't know if you are looking for investment or what, but considering your views, SV is too mainstream IMHO, you will have to go more underground.
Anyway, I really like your idea.

[vintagetrex]

I can also imagine this future, but to be honest, Silicon Valley was a nice place at the eighties, when the most disruptive technologies (now obsolete) where being created there.
I don't know if you are looking for investment or what, but considering your views, SV is too mainstream IMHO, you will have to go more underground.
Anyway, I really like your idea.

I've been considering what you are saying, I was being a little impulsive when I said I was going to the Valley.  I was drawn to Silicon because I think I could find people with the CS skills to help, people who have experience, and people with the desire to bring a new concept to life.  Also, it would be easier to explain to my parents why I'm putting my degree on hold.  I'm reconsidering.  I would prefer to get this project made over the net.  

The internet is also a good place to find people with CS skills.  I'm serious about making Nemesis.  Do you want to help?  We need programmers, miners for a launch network, people with experience streamlining algorithms, encryption experts, etc.  I foresee the languages used as C++, Ruby, and some Python.  Remaining anonymous will be your decision and responsibility.  I would recommend remaining anonymous.  Someone may write a virus to launch.  I have not retained my anonymity through this process, but would recommend staying anonymous.  

From my understanding, Bitcoin is limited to a M1 pure currency because adding information to the block chain increased the amount of memory required to perform the proof of work.  This assumption needs to be proved.  I have not read Bitcoin's source code yet, if someone can link it here that would be awesome.  One decision that will need to be made is whether or not Nemesis should actively mask its users IP addresses.  I think this has a current technological limit because anonymizing software typically slows down the rate of data transfer.  If one wants to upload trade secrets or copyrighted material anonymously, one could potentially use a public library.  

Helpful Skills

• C++
• Ruby
• Python
• Java
• Algorithms
• Encryption
• Mathematics
• Game Theory
• Experience establishing anonymizing networks and software
• Asic Miners
• Storage Miners
• Creativity and Logic
• Anonymity

Compensation

• everyone will be compensated for their submissions
• this is one of the basic premises of Nemesis
• when you submit information (programs) to Nemesis, you will receive coins specific to your submission
• these coins will be valued via supply and demand by the free market and an equilibrium of the proof of storage network the same way bitcoin prices are at equilibrium with its proof of work network (miners)
• supply of coins specific to your submission is limited, although someone can resubmit your submission, they cannot get the coins for the original submission
• the more valuable the market considers your work, the more your coins will be worth

Turning Your Submission into Nemesis' Source Code

• Source code will be elected by "votes"
• voting will not follow an election cycle, they will be static and constant votes
• the owner of the coins for a submission will receive one vote per coin
• the source code with the most outstanding votes is elected as the source code
• by having a vote in Nemesis, you are effectively a voting "Nemesis board member"

[ethought]

What on earth is this?

The result of too much acid?

[cryptrol]

The official Bitcoin tree is on github.com

The blockchain has been used before to store little amount of information (like some leaked data - wikileaks data). But of course storing data on the blockchain bloats it to an undesired extent (since we are talking about BIG amounts of data here ...) this will be your hardest problem to solve. Anonymity is another beast, but you can always relay on third party networks like TOR (The Onion Router).

[vintagetrex]

The official Bitcoin tree is on github.com

The blockchain has been used before to store little amount of information (like some leaked data - wikileaks data). But of course storing data on the blockchain bloats it to an undesired extent (since we are talking about BIG amounts of data here ...) this will be your hardest problem to solve. Anonymity is another beast, but you can always relay on third party networks like TOR (The Onion Router).

I've made a solution to this problem using proof of storage.  It isn't perfect yet because the algorithm needs to be formalized and refined to remove redundant steps.  Basically, I split the mining networks into two networks: one to do proof of work and prevent double spending and another to do proof of storage and handle the large amounts of data and information.  

I will repost the proof of storage concept in a few days/weeks.  basically, when the time is right.  

[vintagetrex]

Some people have come to believe that owning bitcoins is the same as owning "a piece of the internet."  Don't fall victim to this propaganda.  Bitcoin is M1 pure currency.  The service provided by Bitcoin is a transaction system of credits, that is all.  There are a few neat features but it is fundamentally an unbacked currency.  Bitcoin is pure currency while Nemesis is a cipher-space hosting corporation.  

Nemesis is backed by information, and the demand for viewing that information.  While Bitcoin may not be traditionally fiat because the amount of coins in the original Bitcoin system is limited, there is nothing preventing people from printing as many Bitcoin systems as they want.  The only non fiat part of Bitcoin is the mining network.  Nemesis retains these non fiat aspects and adds non fiat information.  Yes, the information can be infinitely reproduced, but the generation of new, useful information is rooted in the logic and creativity of mankind.  If the logic and creativity of mankind were infinite we wouldn't be humans.  

I don't want to dog Bitcoin.  I respect the developers and the breakthroughs of Satoshi.  It has done a great job paving the way of the future.  They built a great infrastructure that Nemesis will utilize too (wallets, anonymity, demand, lots of people understanding the abstract concept, mining networks).  

[Joe_Bauers]

This is one of the most interesting ideas I've seen on here in a long time. We shall watch your career with great interest 

[vintagetrex]

What on earth is this?

The result of too much acid?

This is the result of rejecting your prescribed role in society.  Imagine finding out you have great capabilities with logic and creativity, but your memory isn't that good.  You do a little better than average in school because your grades are mostly affected by your memory.  You invent great things only to learn that invention is not rewarded in today's society, so you decide to invent a way to get paid for your inventions.  

This is one of the most interesting ideas I've seen on here in a long time. We shall watch your career with great interest  

thank you

[vintagetrex]

A Proposed Solution to the Illegal Content Problem

• someone will submit something stupid to Nemesis
• hopefully it won't get stored long term but we have to be willing to face a reality where it will
• giving someone the authority to censor Nemesis' information would completely undermine the entire concept
• Nemesis will not censor its content but it will arrange them into different levels of filters
• assume there are 5 levels that look something like this:
• level one: comparable to google's safe search, no explicit content (PG)
• level two: profanity included (PG 13)
• level three: violence included (PG 13)
• level four: sexually explicit content included (R)
• level five: everything included (illegal)

this way, someone can view the content they want to see without being forced to assume an ethical or legal risk

I wish we didn't have to worry about someone submitting illegal content but its best to be prepared for it to happen

[vintagetrex]

If you're suggesting a proof-of-storage mechanism, it's not going to work.

Enlighten me on proof of storage I've never heard of it.  

I don't think thats what I'm proposing.  

Proof of storage is basically where you would be paid for storing information, rather than doing work.

My first priority is a crypto ledger that replaces the role of government money and government intellectual property.  

Proof of storage looks pretty awesome, I wasn't sure it existed, but I think it could be a good piece of the puzzle.  Thank you.  

You should be credited for your submission

So why can't it work?

Could the proof of storage, be an encrypted message, where the sender sets the price?  

Only the sender can decrypt for free. Everyone else has to pay with POW, or POStake.

It can't work because there's no easy way to verify it. Look at Bitcoin's proof of work. It's very hard to find a block, because it takes a ridiculous number of hashes to do so on average, but it takes only one hash to verify that someone has a correct block. Similarly, proof of storage would have to be the same way, that is, easy to verify. However, how do you do it? If you just ask for a hash of the data the node is being paid for storing, then that node can just store the hash of the data and keep getting paid. The only way to verify that a node is storing something is to have the data yourself and have that node send it to you, every byte, and compare it against what you have. Therefore, you have to do the same work as the node to verify the node is doing what it's supposed to.

proof of storage is definitely doable.  It is only a matter of deciding whether to make it privately verifiable or publicly verifiable.  I had previously proposed a privately verifiable POS system.  I removed it from the thread to save readers time when I came up with a better publicly verifiable POS system.  

Here's a paper on publicly verifiable POS (it will make your eyes bleed): <http://www.cs.jhu.edu/~ateniese/papers/pos.pdf>

[vintagetrex]

First, I don't think you've solved the original problem with proof of storage that I mentioned. Anyone who wants to verify that the miner has a copy of the information must have the same information. If you have solved this, please explain.

Second, you haven't solved the illegal content problem. Governments will try to shut it down because there is illegal content on there, even if people can choose not to view it. (although no content should be illegal anyway...)

I'm glad someone is checking my work!

1 - You were correct that I had not "solved" POS in the traditional CS definition of the word at this point! There was a better solution than privately verifiable POS. It was publicly verifiable POS.  Publicly verifiable POS allowed the complexity of the POS protocol to be sufficiently reduced to a single hash.  

2 - Since Nemesis is hosted by an anonymous distributed network of miners, the government can try and shut it down, but they will have a very hard time.  I am looking to the community for more feedback, input, and ideas, but I have posted my own belief of how the problem can be minimized.  Obviously, there is a lot of work needed to be done creating and implementing the filters.  


For publicly verifiable POS, you break the message up into blocks and create a challenge (another block of data) to go with each message block.  Performing a hash of a corresponding message block and challenge block produces an outcome say a string of zeros 00000000.  You can basically ask a person claiming to store the message by sending them a challenge block and asking them to produce the correct answer of hashing it with the desired message block.  You can change up your challenge blocks (even throw in a few the won't produce a string of zeros 1101011111) to verify that the storer is actually storing that portion of the message.  

[vintagetrex]

A decision by the feds to outlaw the mining of Nemesis will only result in a derivation of the game theory gap concept.  That is: there will be an equilibrium between prices where mining costs say $5 per coin and the coins sell for $20 each (just an example)

[vintagetrex]

First, I don't think you've solved the original problem with proof of storage that I mentioned. Anyone who wants to verify that the miner has a copy of the information must have the same information. If you have solved this, please explain.

Second, you haven't solved the illegal content problem. Governments will try to shut it down because there is illegal content on there, even if people can choose not to view it. (although no content should be illegal anyway...)

A more concise response to your first question...

Yes, someone has to store the information to prove that someone else is storing it.  However,  100000000000 servers can have their storage of information checked against 1 single storage.  
This is a very huge solution to a problem.  Its hard for me to even hold all the elements in my head.  You have to draw out a diagram of how the information moves through a path of servers and returns to the original server to see what the communication complexity is like.  If you can tell me how to post pictures on this forum I will post a picture of my diagram.  
(referring to privately verified POS)


I will try to think of another way to do POS that wouldn't involve sending the entire message M around, in order to try to reduce communication complexity.  (publicly verified POS, shown later)

[Juan Taun]

And remember kids, don't use drugs.

And stay in school.

[vintagetrex]

The breakthrough we've all been waiting for

(Publicly verifiable proof of storage)


Inputs X and Y are hashed together to produce a digest

Input X can be a message M or an encryption and key of message M

Input Y is the randomly generated challenge

The proof is when the hash of X and Y produce a digest with an output of zeroes I.E. 00000000000

A storer must find an input Y that satisfies a digest requirement of a string of zeroes I.E. 0000000000 by randomly generating numbers to use as input Y.  

The proof of storage is a proof of work on information.  The information must be stored to perform work with it.  The storage of the information can be easily proved by checking that the requirement of a string of zeroes was satisfied.  

[vintagetrex]

The breakthrough we've all been waiting for

(Publicly verifiable proof of storage BECAUSE I'M A SUPERFREAK)


Inputs X and Y are hashed together to produce a digest

Input X can be a message M or an encryption and key of message M

Input Y is the randomly generated challenge

The proof is when the hash of X and Y produce a digest with an output of zeroes I.E. 00000000000

A storer must find an input Y that satisfies a digest requirement of a string of zeroes I.E. 0000000000 by randomly generating numbers to use as input Y.  

The proof of storage is a proof of work on information.  The information must be stored to perform work with it.  The storage of the information can be easily proved by checking that the requirement of a string of zeroes was satisfied.  

The storer can lie about the hash, making one up if the checker doesn't have the information the storer has to make sure that the hash is really produced by that data, right?

Not if the network of miners are the ones checking that the work was performed and at least 51% agree on what the message was.  Its the same function as Bitcoin's proof of work hash except performed on a message with utility rather than a random string. The only difference is the being hashed is randomly encrypted rather than simply using a random string of numbers.  

Of course someone has to have the message to check that it is being stored by someone else.

(Message ### challenge) = 00000000000001

If someone produces a challenge and claims it works, but everyone says "hey i tried your challenge with the message u claimed it worked for and it totally didn't work" then everyone rejects that falsely produced challenge.  It is very easy to check which allows everyone to check the validity of a solution

[int3ractivodular]

Watching with interest...

[vintagetrex]

The publicly verifiable POS I proposed will work.  it proves storage of a message over a period of work, rather than over a period of time.  
I.E. this message was stored while 100382 hashes were performed with random numbers.  

Ideally, it will be implemented with a cryptographic hash function that has a high (time/work) ratio to isolate the storage portion of the process.  
I.E. this message was stored while (2870432 hashes were performed) * (1 second / .01 hashes) = 287043200 seconds

I'll try and find out if a strong hash function like this exists.  It probably isn't necessary I just figured it would be nice if everyone didn't have to purchase specialized hashing hardware like ASIC miners in order to efficiently store information.  Obviously, its not worth trading security for this.  

Maybe a better way to propose this question is this: is there a hash function that is unaffected by CPU processing power/speed?

[vintagetrex]

Sounds like it should work, although the only people that could check would be those that have the information in the first place.

Yes, the other miners who are already storing the information.

[jackyrozario]

Nemesis Airsoft on toistaiseksi lopettanut sekä Tampereen myymälän että nettimyymälän. ProAirsoft toimii nyt Tampereen liiketiloissa.

[vintagetrex]

I am now looking for developers and contributors for Nemesis.  Here's the developer recruitment page:

<https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=338080.new>

[vintagetrex]

Project GitHub (new info)

https://github.com/vintagetrex/Nemesis-Project/blob/master/README.md

Someone please find out how to embed the advertisements in the proof of storage file. 

[vintagetrex]

bump

datacoin has launched.  The concept seems to be largely based on the ideas presented in this thread.  YAY!!

the people should demand a coin that rewards each individual for his/her specific contribution of information.  It will be the long term market winner, eventually overtaking Bitcoin.

[vintagetrex]

A considerable amount of the ideas in this datacoin thread are also represented in this thread.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=338480.100


now accepting datacoins:

D86uHZ94hGYbNbA1GePZ2avFqEhRGz2TYv

[cryptrol]

A considerable amount of the ideas in this datacoin thread are also represented in this thread.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=338480.100


now accepting datacoins:

D86uHZ94hGYbNbA1GePZ2avFqEhRGz2TYv

Yes, DTC is a nice experiment, also following it.

[vintagetrex]

bump