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Author Topic: Electrum Wallet Vs Nano Ledger S or Trezor  (Read 530 times)
jerry0
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December 06, 2017, 06:22:27 AM
 #1

I have electrum and use that to store my bitcoin.  I like electrum because i used it for a while already and its simple.  I heard you should get a hardware wallet because that is the most secure thing you can get for storing your bitcoin etc but have questions.


1.  Which is better?  The nano ledger s or the trezor?  Which is more easier to use?  I believe the trezor is a bit more expensive.  But in terms of someone using electrum, which one would be easier?  Or it should be either because electrum would be harder than both right?


2.  How do you transfer bitcoin from electrum to the nano ledger or trezor?  And if you do it, you should test it out with a very tiny amount first right just to make sure it goes through?  Then you send the rest?  Also if you put low sending fee, it takes longer for the btc to hit the nano ledgers s or trezor right?


3.  So the security thing is something im very curious about here.  With electrum, you are given a 12 word seed to restore your wallet in case.  But with nano ledger s, its 24 words? What about trezor?  Now here is one big issue here.  I watched videos on youtube about the ledger nano s and its mentioned that you are given a sheet where you are suppose to write down the 24 word seed on a sheet of paper.  First off, does everyone here write it down on that piece of paper?  And most importantly... where do you guys keep that piece of paper?  Because if someone were to get access to it, that means they can get all your bitcoin right?  Because if you leave it somewhere in your apartment, where would you even leave it?  So if someone got in your apartment and got that piece of paper, then your bitcoin are taken right?  So basically that sheet of paper is more important than the device itself right? 


So if someone was to have access to your trezor, ledger s and say your laptop, could they take your bitcoin or not?  I believe for nano ledger, you need to set a pin right?  So unless they have that pin, it won't work?
The issue with using electrum and keeping bitcoin there would be if someone stole your laptop or got access to your laptop and notice you have bitcoin wallet on your computer, couldn't they just install a trojan or malware and then take your bitcoin?  For example, i know there are bitcoin cash and gold wallets that are not real.  But the reason those ppl got their coins stolen was because they input their seed right?  However, i read cases where malware is enough?  So basically the trezor/nano ledger protects you against online hackers right?  So if your laptop got malware/virus... that would mean even if you have nano ledger or trezor, they cant get your bitcoin or they can?


4.  When you send from nano or trezor, do you set the fees?  Or is it the default fees?  So would it cost more sending btc from ledger to a site compared to electrum?  Electrum you could set the fees.


5.  I read cases where people had issues with their nano ledger or trezor such as it freezing or not working.  I read stories of people mentioning their bitcoin got stuck etc on their ledger or trezor.  Is this common or rare?  The thing is i want to get one but im sort of worried that something might go wrong with the device.  If something goes wrong with the device and/or malfunctions... what happens to your bitcoin then?   Would you need to get a new one?  If you dont get a new one, how do you restore your bitcoins then?  Also does nano ledger/trezor need to be used with a certain program?  Because if you send all your btc from electrum to ledger s or nano, then you basically need to connect it to your computer to do this and thats all right? 
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jerry0
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December 06, 2017, 06:35:42 AM
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6.  What happens when there is a bitcoin fork then?




The other thing i want to ask is this.  If you have electrum on your computer and keep bitcoin there, if you make your computer very secure... download bitlocker as i heard that is the name of the program.  If someone was to have access to your laptop, would they be able to hack your computer and take your bitcoin?


Because im thinking this.  As long as you secure your laptop with bitlocker, a hacker cannot have access to your computer and view it right?  Because they would need to know the password otherwise it wouldn't work?


So in essence, wouldn't this be close to as good as using a nano ledger or trezor as long as you dont click on fishy links or have malware on your computer.  But if your computer got malware or you click on fishy links where there is a trojan etc... if you use trezor or nano ledger, the hacker cannot take your bitcoin?  Is that true or false?
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December 06, 2017, 07:59:43 AM
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1. The ledger and trezor are both fine. Its more about which you find more appealing. For me its the ledger.

2. You 'transfere' BTC as you would always do: send them via transaction. You can try sending a small amount first, but generally don't have to if you don't misstype the address.
And yes, lower fees (generally) mean your TX will get confirmed later. To get an estimation you can use sites like https://bitcoinfees.earn.com/.

3. Mnemonic seeds are the most comfortable way of storing the seed for your wallet (and all priv-/pub- keypairs which can be calculated out from it).
Security-wise it doesn't matter whether you have 12 or 24 words.
And yes, you are right. The one who owns the mnemonic seed, owns the bitcoins.
People don't even have to steal your notebook to get malware on it. This can be 'easily' done across the internet.
You can't always stay safe just without downloading stuff or stop surfing. Exploits are real and will always be.

4. You have options to choose among recommended fees, but you can set your own too.

5. Such things can happen. Thats why you need to store your mnemonic seed as backup.

6. You an always insert your private keys into any other wallet, since they are using BIP39-seeds.
But after that your hardware wallet should be looked at as compromised.
If Wallet provider are going to support forks (and altcoins) are completely up to them.


Because im thinking this.  As long as you secure your laptop with bitlocker, a hacker cannot have access to your computer and view it right?  Because they would need to know the password otherwise it wouldn't work?

I don't know how bitlocker works and which encryption algorithm it uses. But as long the password is safe, your keys should(!) stay safe. Presuming you never decrypt the file.


So in essence, wouldn't this be close to as good as using a nano ledger or trezor as long as you dont click on fishy links or have malware on your computer.

I would recommend a HW wallet over a desktop wallet everytime. Exceptions would be an air-gapped PC, only used for signing transactions.


But if your computer got malware or you click on fishy links where there is a trojan etc... if you use trezor or nano ledger, the hacker cannot take your bitcoin?  Is that true or false?

True.

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December 06, 2017, 09:48:18 AM
 #4

But in terms of someone using electrum, which one would be easier?  Or it should be either because electrum would be harder than both right?
You can actually use the Ledger Nano S and/or the Trezor WITH Electrum... Electrum allows you to import a "watching-only" version of your Ledger/Trezor wallet... it works EXACTLY the same as a
"Standard" Electrum wallet, except that it contains NO private keys (for obvious security reasons). When you want to send a transaction (or sign a message), you have to have the Ledger/Trezor connected... Electrum sends the transaction to the device... you check all the details and then confirm the transaction on the device. The device will then "sign" the transaction and send it back to Electrum so that Electrum can broadcast it to the network. Your private keys NEVER leave the device.

The default Ledger/Trezor wallets are "OK"... but Electrum in conjuction with a hardware wallet is AWESOME! Wink  Grin  Cool



Quote
5. ... im sort of worried that something might go wrong with the device.  If something goes wrong with the device and/or malfunctions... what happens to your bitcoin then?
You can restore to ANY BIP39/BIP44 compatible wallet like another Ledger/Trezor (you can restore a Ledger to a Trezor and a Trezor to a Ledger btw)... or even restore it in Electrum if you need to.

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December 06, 2017, 12:31:07 PM
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2.  How do you transfer bitcoin from electrum to the nano ledger or trezor? 
After you test your seed to make sure your backup is safe, you can just send it there.  If you're paranoid, you can definitely test first.
with nano ledger s, its 24 words? What about trezor?
Yep, TREZOR gives you a 24 word seed as well.
First off, does everyone here write it down on that piece of paper? 
I do, yes.  I wrote it down on two separate cards in separate locations.
And most importantly... where do you guys keep that piece of paper? 
I keep it hidden in my house, but it's a good idea to try a bank safety deposit box or something else regarded as safe.

Otherwise, you can have additional passphrases written down in different locations or memorised so that access to the seed doesn't equal access to your coins.
4.  When you send from nano or trezor, do you set the fees?  Or is it the default fees? 
You can choose fees, but they have dynamic fee estimation (like Electrum).
5.  If something goes wrong with the device and/or malfunctions... what happens to your bitcoin then?   Would you need to get a new one?
You can restore it in any wallet that's compatible with that type of seed.  I'm pretty sure that includes Electrum and Mycelium, among others.
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December 06, 2017, 03:34:28 PM
 #6

Okay so what about when there are bitcoin forks?  For example where your bitcoin is on the fork means thats how you would get it.  So if i have bitcoin on electrum, i would need to do so and so step to get bitcoin cash and gold.  So if you guys have bitcoin in your nano or trezor and there is the bitcoin diamond... how do you guys get your bitcoin diamond?  Is it easier/harder than oppose to keeping it on electrum?  I have not claimed my bitcoin cash nor gold yet.  But i like to know how claiming it when there is fork.
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December 06, 2017, 03:36:09 PM
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Also can someone here post the real nano ledger and trezor website link?  There seem to be a few different ones out there when googling.
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December 06, 2017, 05:29:55 PM
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If Ledger and/or Trezor device that the fork is worthwhile (ie. It is actually going to survive and have value)... like they did with Bitcoin Cash and Bitcoin Gold, they'll add support to their wallets and have previously created tools that allow you to basically "click a button" and claim your fork coins. This has historically been "secure" in that it doesn't involve having to export private keys or your seed etc.

However, there is no guarantee that any new fork will be supported in the future... But that just means you'll effectively have to do the same process as you would with Electrum ( export keys, import into fork wallet etc)

Ledger: https://www.ledgerwallet.com

Trezor: https://trezor.io
 

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December 07, 2017, 03:40:09 AM
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So what happened with bitcoin owners who kept bitcoin in their ledger or trezor wallet during the fork with bitcoin cash and gold?  How did they claim it?


So for example when bitcoin diamond comes up, how do they claim it?
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December 07, 2017, 06:53:26 AM
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Did you even read what I wrote? Trezor/Ledger added support... and a couple of "one click" tools to claim the coins...

For example, Ledger's instructions for getting Cash and Gold:
https://ledger.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005173465
https://ledger.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005173485
https://ledger.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005456969-How-to-use-Bitcoin-Gold-with-Ledger


When Bitcoin Diamond comes up? bwhahahaha you mean IF Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

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December 07, 2017, 08:36:38 AM
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Hi thanks for that information.


How long did it take for you to receive it when ordering it?  I like to know from those people in the US


Also where would you guys keep the 24 word phrase?   The thing is if you write it down on a piece of paper and put it somewhere in your house/apartment, if someone was able to find that piece of paper, then it doesn't seem that safe right?  The other thing is would it be a good idea to have 2 copies of it... like one in your apartment and one somewhere else?  But where would be the other place?  The other thing i thought of would be what about having 12 words in place... and the other 12 word in another place.  That way someone can't get access to your 24 word phrase right?  But where would be the 2 locations you put it at?  The other thing i heard was do not type in your seed on your computer etc.  However what if you type it in some program like keepass or something like that?  Because that way, the only way someone could find out your seed would be have access to your keepass file... but also need to know the master password.  Because if you do it that way, then the piece of paper with the 24 word phrase isn't going to be in a physical location.  Thoughts on that?
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December 07, 2017, 02:05:07 PM
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Hi thanks for that information.


How long did it take for you to receive it when ordering it?  I like to know from those people in the US


Also where would you guys keep the 24 word phrase?   The thing is if you write it down on a piece of paper and put it somewhere in your house/apartment, if someone was able to find that piece of paper, then it doesn't seem that safe right?  The other thing is would it be a good idea to have 2 copies of it... like one in your apartment and one somewhere else?  But where would be the other place?  The other thing i thought of would be what about having 12 words in place... and the other 12 word in another place.  That way someone can't get access to your 24 word phrase right?  But where would be the 2 locations you put it at?  The other thing i heard was do not type in your seed on your computer etc.  However what if you type it in some program like keepass or something like that?  Because that way, the only way someone could find out your seed would be have access to your keepass file... but also need to know the master password.  Because if you do it that way, then the piece of paper with the 24 word phrase isn't going to be in a physical location.  Thoughts on that?

You can check how long it takes to device be delivered to you just by go on Ledger/Trezor site and do all steps like you will buy it,there you can see what is delivery time based on what shipping you chose.In Europe for standard shipping it is from 7-14 days for Ledger.

Regarding seed,it is up to you in what way you will keep it.It is smart to divide seed in 2 or 3 individual part and put it in different places taking into account that you know the exact sequence of word entering.Never keep your seed/private keys on any device that has access to the internet,even if you encrypt such file.You may have keylogger or RAT virus on your device,and as soon you decrypt you file hacker can get access and game is over for you.

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