I'm proud of the foundation

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

This is naive. Of course they would not do the obvious. But for a group of knowledgable persons it is easy to implement some "errors" that go unnoticed long enough to inflict serious damage.

Only a tiny fraction of all bitcoin users is able to understand the source code. And of this tiny fraction only few do actually verify it.

Come hang out in #bitcoin-dev for a while.

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[Bitware]

All this sounds like an apparatchik's speech in support of the beloved party and the beloved leadership.

So does this:

What we DO know is that The Bitcoin Foundation goes against Satoshi's dream of no-trust-needed and complete decentralization

Satoshi is no god. His little software was not perfect from the beginning. He did not come down from the mountain with 10 golden rules engraved in stone for no one to question.

We need people to further develop the software, the protocol, the application and everyday use of Bitcoin. People, and that's what the Foundation is made of.

I agree, but I do not believe that TBF is the answer. It certainly was not needed when all their coins were worth pennies and its not needed when they are worth hundreds or more.

This is what I think of Foundations... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUYCBfmIcHM#t=21m33s

[Lethn]

It's a global revolution by people demanding monetary democracy.

Not anarchy?

He doesn't speak for all of us

[luv2drnkbr]

I also think the Foundation is ill-conceived and I have not donated to it, but all this irrational hatred of it is retarded.  No, it doesn't control the code.  The fucking miners control the code.  The code is OPEN SOURCE.  If the miners don't like an update, they can NOT UPDATE and continue processing transactions the old way.

The Foundation is doing two awesome things:  paying Gavin, to work on OPEN SOURCE CODE THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO USE IF YOU DON'T WANT TO, and trying to promote bitcoin in a positive light and integrate it into the current world.  Like I said, I disagree with it and feel it's both not necessary and too centralizing of a force.... but this outright distrust and claims of "they wish they were the fed!" and such is fucking stupid.  You can see everything they do.  The code is fucking open source.  They press releases and interactions with media and public are always transparent.  They're not some evil entity, and you're fucking retarded if you think they are.

Do you honestly not think Gavin, Charlie, Garzik, MagicalTux, Mantonis, etc. don't want what's best for bitcoin!?  Come on now, these are people who've been in it for years if not since the beginning, and who have completely solid reputations.

Fucking hell, I'm gonna go donate to the foundation just because the retarded irrational hatred of it annoys me so much.

[luv2drnkbr]

This is naive. Of course they would not do the obvious. But for a group of knowledgable persons it is easy to implement some "errors" that go unnoticed long enough to inflict serious damage.

Only a tiny fraction of all bitcoin users is able to understand the source code. And of this tiny fraction only few do actually verify it.

Sorry, but this is retarded.  First of all, what exactly is it you think they can do that will go unnoticed?  Cause if it's not changing how addresses are created (in order to make them easier to brute force), and if it's not minting extra money.... what the fuck exactly do you think they could do?

Now, there ARE some things I can think of (which I'm not mentioning because I want to see if YOU can), but let's say they DO secretly add them.  It doesn't matter if most of the community doesn't notice, because all it takes is ONE PERSON noticing and posting about it.  Giant errors like that get found fast not because everybody can read code, but because all it takes is ONE PERSON reading it.  Because that one person then goes and TELLS PEOPLE.  So your big worry can completely be mitigated by simply waiting a month or two after new releases before you update.  BAM, problem solved.

[Lethn]

Look, let's be realistic here, the Federal Reserve was established on the exact same type of pretensions that the Bitcoin foundation is and it goes against the decentralised system that cryptographic currencies are known for, what I can't understand is why do they feel the need to hijack Bitcoin? And don't bullshit me and claim they aren't when they've gone and even made a Satoshi profile on their forums and everything just to fuck with people.

If they want to make a centralised currency that's regulated by a central authority then by all means I think they should go ahead, I think currency competition is fantastic and it's about time we finally got it but don't go blatantly hijacking and usurping someone else's work and claim your benevolent and have everyone's best interests at heart with a straight face. I don't think copyright violation is a big deal at all, in fact, I'm against copyright, what I do hate and despise though is plagiarism, these guys don't seem to have the knowledge to go and make their own currency like everyone else is.

[biggie]

All this sounds like an apparatchik's speech in support of the beloved party and the beloved leadership.

So does this:

What we DO know is that The Bitcoin Foundation goes against Satoshi's dream of no-trust-needed and complete decentralization

Satoshi is no god. His little software was not perfect from the beginning. He did not come down from the mountain with 10 golden rules engraved in stone for no one to question.

We need people to further develop the software, the protocol, the application and everyday use of Bitcoin. People, and that's what the Foundation is made of.

All fine with me, as long as the "foundation" does not get any kind of power to force bitcoin(developers) to go a specific route. They better stay a not-for-profit organisation which people voluntarily can support to spread the message and do independend research for the good of all.

[charleshoskinson]

And Charles, I must say, I'm almost surprised to see you make nice with TBF.

You should be because this was one of my recent posts on their forums:

Gavin to be perfectly frank the foundation has done little that seems necessary to perpetuate the growth and stability of Bitcoin. For example, you have yet to embrace any education effort. You have no discernible media strategy. The foundation has yet to share any of its knowledge in a public way regarding their discoveries about regulation and laws that apply to businesses dealing with Bitcoins- this would be invaluable for the small entities run by entrepreneurs who cannot afford to pay professionals to aggregate the research on their behalf. There apparently is no effort to engage large businesses to build products for the Bitcoin ecosystem or accept Bitcoins for their products and services.

You cite that the foundation was inspired by the Linux Foundation, yet it lacks any attempt to make the protocol development more transparent and recruit new developers from industry. You haven't addressed any of the flaws in Bitcoin's proof of work that has resulted in a small cabal of ASIC miners gaining undue influence and control over the network nor the problem with blockchain growth eventually resulting in centralization of trust. Perhaps it would be wise to invest some of the foundation's money in grants to academic entities to study solutions for these problems?

But no, by all means continue to sue each other "without any conflict of interest". Continue to manage by fiat without any transparency. Please continue to hire lobbyists without any community input into their agenda. I'm sure an election where you guys have final say of the rules will definitely resolve all of these issues and make our voice as foundation members truly powerful.

The only person I really feel could turn this around is Jon. In the ED role, he has a chance to resolve the media and education shortfalls in Bitcoin. I've always believed this should be the only priority of the Foundation. In terms of protocol development and lobbying, I believe the protocol should be handled by a separate organization that works on more than one cryptocurrency and has strong academic connections. Lobbying should be a product of finding ways to make large businesses money with Bitcoin as it is. I have a very simple rule. If Goldman Sachs is making money off of something, then the regulations probably won't change anytime soon. Let's find a way to get big business into our ecosystem.

[IIOII]

Fucking hell, I'm gonna go donate to the foundation just because the retarded irrational hatred of it annoys me so much.

Hatred anyone?



An example of a problem that was noticed only after release:

http://mineforeman.com/2013/03/14/what-the-fork-was-that-a-forking-post-mortem/


TBF does nothing useful which could not be achieved by other means without the potential problems TBF brings. E.g. paying developers: start a donation campaign - there would be more than enough funds incoming to pay all developers without having to approve a political agenda.

[xris]

It's a global revolution by people demanding monetary democracy.

Not anarchy?

not just anarchy...cryptoanarchy/anarcho-capitalism! (ftw; excelsior!)

[bg002h]

All this sounds like an apparatchik's speech in support of the beloved party and the beloved leadership.

So does this:

What we DO know is that The Bitcoin Foundation goes against Satoshi's dream of no-trust-needed and complete decentralization

Satoshi is no god. His little software was not perfect from the beginning. He did not come down from the mountain with 10 golden rules engraved in stone for no one to question.

We need people to further develop the software, the protocol, the application and everyday use of Bitcoin. People, and that's what the Foundation is made of.

I think Satoshi would approve of a centralized effort to protect the decentralization of Bitcoin...or at least a centralized effort to fix his kinda sh!tty code

[AliceWonder]

Any successful software project I can think of has a core group of developers.

Linux, GNOME, The GIMP, vim, glibc, etc.

You need a core group of developers who have hierarchy and can veto changes or modify changes before they are put in the main branch. It's the only way not to have the project die from chaos.

[tuheeden]

Wow - There is alot of mis-information and misplaced anger over something as benign as the Foundation.

First and most obvious, TBF does NOT control  Bitcoin, the code or the development. If you think you can do better, start your own and let the economic majority do the rest. As many have mentioned here, all software development benefits from the division of labor. After all, who was going to pay for the lawyer to defend the project when the State of California came knocking?? Funny how all of the blow hards vanish when real money and responsibility arrive.

Second, as I already pointed out - It is good for ALL digital currencies to have someone clearing legal paths and investing time and energy for the greater good of the community. There is no doubt that some people that are in the TBF have special interests and profit motives but so does everyone here or else you would just use paypal or visa and call it a day. Let them do what they can to make all of our lives easier.

Third, I cant see how the TBF is "centralizing" anything but liability. Many have pointed out that Bitcoin has suffered (and continues to) from a lack of public relations and while I agree this is true, somehow it has managed $1.3B in market capitalization, so imagine what it could do? Yes, TBF will try and be a point of contact for things Bitcoin, but if Ripple or Litecoin reach the size and scope of Bitcoin, they too will need willing participants to row the boat.

I believe that there are MANY brilliant people working on this project all over the world. To think that one small group is smarter or more powerful that millions of others is absurd. Let them do their part while we do ours.

[greyhawk]

Who's the douchebag in your avatar?

[Lethn]

Wow - There is alot of mis-information and misplaced anger over something as benign as the Foundation.

LOL! As for starting a new currency like I said, why can't the 'Bitcoin' foundation just fuck off and make their own? What's so difficult about it? They could even hire programmers to look at the code and make the changes they want if they don't have the technical aptitude, why do you people feel the need to usurp other peoples work? Or is it that you know that their ideas are so shit they'd never take off if they went under their own brand and ideology?

[IIOII]

Usurpation is definitely the right word here.

To be clear: Criticism of TBF does not target that there is some core group of developers or that they shouldn't receive incentives for their work. Criticism of TBF targets the mixing of development goals with political motives. The political agenda of TBF is not legitimized by any democratic means.

[Realpra]

We already have ISO and other bodies taking care of standardizing things in a voluntary way participants can agree on.

The foundation does nothing and they are proponents of regulation which goes entirely against the ideals of Bitcoin.

[matonis]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, go fuck yourselves, you're nothing more than a wannabe Federal Reserve.

The miners and mining pools are the actual "Federal Reserve" because that's the heart of de-centralized banking. You assign more power to the Foundation than is warranted.

When the State enforcement and regulatory pressure comes, it will be swift, decisive and unforgiving. The Foundation will be there defending the individuals and businesses targeted and exploiting the last vestiges of any remaining 'gray areas' to keep people out of jail in a pro bono capacity.

[Lethn]

I said they're a wannabe federal reserve not that they actually are a central bank as for the miners, nothing at all stopping people from solo mining on a casual basis ( I don't care what any of you have to say about profitability ) there have been some very well thought out measures against these kind of movements put into place, open source alone is very valuable for stopping people from trying to mess with cryptographic currencies.

[Bitware]

The miners and mining pools are the actual "Federal Reserve" because that's the heart of de-centralized banking. You assign more power to the Foundation than is warranted.

When the State enforcement and regulatory pressure comes, it will be swift, decisive and unforgiving. The Foundation will be there defending the individuals and businesses targeted and exploiting the last vestiges of any remaining 'gray areas' to keep people out of jail in a pro bono capacity.

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