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Author Topic: Something which are not true yet for bitcoin  (Read 1497 times)
qikaifu
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God creats math and math creats bitcoin.


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July 02, 2011, 12:37:52 PM
 #1

I’ve read Bruce Wagner’s post about bitcoin.

Post 33.
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=25252.20


I think 3 of the points are still not true yet for bitcoin.

•   easy to use
  • o   no, it’s not easy. Before you can actually use bitcoin safely, you have to learn about how to use True Encrypt and how to find the damn %APPDATA%/Bitcoin folder on your computer.
    o   You will have to be patient and nervously cautious to make sure the safety of your money all the time. You’re backing up wallet, deleting wallet and restoring wallet and then backing up wallet…
    o   You have to remember a very “SAFE” password for the encrypted backing up, which means some serious trouble and difficulty that the geeky guys are not able and willing to understand. Users either have to remember password longer than 12 characteristics  mixed with numbers and capital letters, or have to learn some strange things named LastPass.

How can you say that it’s easy to use bitcoin?


•   no transaction fees
  • o   Yes, there ARE transaction fees now. And after 2140, the miner are mining only for fees. Stop telling people that there is NO fees, please.


•   you can start using bitcoin within seconds with no technical skills necessary
  • See what I said about “easy to use”.
  • You have to wait for hours before the downloading of blocks completed, if you’re a first time user.


Maybe they will turned to be true, but not now. They are challenging opportunities for bitcoin developers.

P.S.

I think these are true for bitcoin.

transactions that can't bounce or incur chargebacks
no need for bank approval
the world's first decentralized currency
the world's first currency with a limited supply, yet extremely divisible

If you see any of my suggestions useful, please donate me. http://btc.to/ec
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July 02, 2011, 12:42:24 PM
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I quote everything
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July 02, 2011, 12:48:26 PM
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bitcoin is not perfect, get over it.

However, the bottom line is that bitcoin is far superior than fiat paper and using masterslave.

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July 02, 2011, 12:51:03 PM
 #4

It's not easy to do anything safely with most of the trash computers that people sell you (especially with Windows).

Fees don't have to rise, because the number of blocks per hour will be constant. As the number transactions goes up, the reward for generating blocks goes up as well -- without per-transaction fee going up.

And when bitcoin spreads around, it will go up way faster than the fixed mining reward gets down.

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Gabi
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July 02, 2011, 01:10:22 PM
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Windows is safe, it's the people that use it that often are idiots
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July 02, 2011, 01:18:19 PM
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Windows is safe, it's the people that use it that often are idiots

Yes, as I said, it is not easy to do things safely with it. If you shut it down, nobody will break in! But setups very a lot in how easy it is to get some security.



Same is true for other systems, with trash I was also referring to hardware. Computers are full of crypto to prevent you from copying a DVD, just imagine you would have control of it!

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wareen
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July 02, 2011, 01:50:28 PM
 #7

I like to distinguish between Bitcoin the concept and the actual client implementation.
Your fallacy is to not do so - it is actually possible to start using Bitcoins within seconds: I just visited a friend, went to mybitcoin.com on his computer and registered an account for him within "seconds" (ok, it might have been a minute or two to explain some password basics). Then I sent him some BTC from my phone - voila!

It is absolutely possible to start using Bitcoin within seconds and without technical skills! The standard Bitcoin client does not offer this just yet but it is by far not the only way to use Bitcoin.
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July 02, 2011, 02:03:57 PM
 #8

How about some OS analogies? Sure!

I've got three pairs of pants, (bear with me - I hate a cluttered closet), and depending on what I'm doing or where I'm going I choose one of the three.

WinPants - You know, these suckers are comfortable. Well, they better be - I've only spent decades getting them to fit just right. Sure, there's a small hole in the left pocket so I have to be careful not to put anything in there I don't want lost, and there is the annoying tendency for the elements to seep in through the threadbare but wonderfully smooth denim at times. But dammit, they do the job and I don't get arrested for going out nude - so its a win-win scenario. They won't impress the girls, but it will take care of regular errands and going about-the-town during the day.

iPants - Well, I'm a bit invested here. Spent more than I usually do - and god, do they look it. I hear the fabric was woven by some particularly picky designers and I'm paying for their expertise. That's okay with me. Although if I get a tear I have to send it off somewhere special to get it repaired or replaced. But they are my fancy pants used for wowing the ladies as I dash off into wild discos and art showings. Not to say they don't get holes in the pockets like my WinPants, but they do get repaired eventually, whenever I can manage to get to the authorized drycleaner.

x32-Pants-0.01.02-tar.gz - Yeah, the label is a bit long, but the damn fabric seems to have been crafted in a vulcan furnace, a bit of a burnished exterior that fades improbably to near pitch-black. I've poured an entire pitcher of bloody mary mix on the leg once, and it vanished without a trace. Amazing. However, it took me a while to get these on. You have to be certain pants.conf is setup properly, and you don't want one leg in before you realize that the cuff_relax_flag isn't set to "Auto". That really stung. Ladies tend to avoid me in these pants, but that is only because I didn't have the fabric_refresh set to something higher than 24 fps, and my boxers were showing. I fixed that, and they've been pretty dependable ever since. I can go anywhere with these, I just have to keep an eye on the pants announcement board to make sure some clown hasn't figured out how to unravel my seams while I'm walking around town at night. No, that wasn't me, that was some other guy... really.


fortitudinem multis - catenum regit omnia
bcearl
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July 02, 2011, 02:08:26 PM
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I like to distinguish between Bitcoin the concept and the actual client implementation.
Your fallacy is to not do so - it is actually possible to start using Bitcoins within seconds: I just visited a friend, went to mybitcoin.com on his computer and registered an account for him within "seconds" (ok, it might have been a minute or two to explain some password basics). Then I sent him some BTC from my phone - voila!

It is absolutely possible to start using Bitcoin within seconds and without technical skills! The standard Bitcoin client does not offer this just yet but it is by far not the only way to use Bitcoin.

That's also true, of course. You can outsource the security issue to a third party of your trust. (In future there will be much more serious ways than mybitcoin.)

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bitfreak!
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July 02, 2011, 02:09:19 PM
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The only real point you have is about the transaction fees. I was a little confused at first when I was being forced to pay transaction fees (it was also that client which was charging 0.01 or what ever ridiculous amount it was), and I was like, wtf is going on here, no fees my ass. But the fees are much more reasonable now. I do find it a little discerning however, that some simple client changes can change the fees.

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bcearl
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July 02, 2011, 02:13:19 PM
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The only real point you have is about the transaction fees. I was a little confused at first when I was being forced to ay transaction fees (it was also that client which was charging 0.01 or what ever ridiculous amount it was), and I was like, wtf is going on here, no fees my ass. But the fees are much more reasonable now. I do find it a little discerning however, that some simple client changes can change the fees.

Yea, it does not make sense. It wants fees if the transaction is complicated or larger than some certain size. Why? That does not make generating the block any harder.

The only fee that makes sense is the anti-spam fee.

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killer2021
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July 02, 2011, 02:50:26 PM
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The only real point you have is about the transaction fees. I was a little confused at first when I was being forced to pay transaction fees (it was also that client which was charging 0.01 or what ever ridiculous amount it was), and I was like, wtf is going on here, no fees my ass. But the fees are much more reasonable now. I do find it a little discerning however, that some simple client changes can change the fees.

Its still lower than visa, mastercard or paypal. Only thing that has no fees is direct cash.

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July 02, 2011, 03:06:28 PM
 #13

Yes, the fees definitely are much better. But lets say I had that old client where there were no fees, or very low fees, could I make transactions with such low fees? I assume the transactions would just take longer?

Btw, those OS analogies by TraderTimm were peretty classic. Good stuff.

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bcearl
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July 02, 2011, 03:21:40 PM
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I don't get arrested for going out nude
...
They won't impress the girls,

Going out nude may impress girls. Wink

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bcearl
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July 02, 2011, 03:24:05 PM
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Yes, the fees definitely are much better. But lets say I had that old client where there were no fees, or very low fees, could I make transactions with such low fees? I assume the transactions would just take longer?

Btw, those OS analogies by TraderTimm were peretty classic. Good stuff.

You can always make free transactions, but you have to find peers who accept them.

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wareen
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July 02, 2011, 04:43:16 PM
 #16

Quote
Its still lower than visa, mastercard or paypal. Only thing that has no fees is direct cash.
Yes the fees are indeed a valid point - nothing in life is free and to say that Bitcoin has no transaction fees is not really true. If you think about it, even cash has fees attached to it, albeit you pay for it only indirectly via taxes or other bank fees (banknotes have to be replaced all the time due to damages, handling of banknotes is more expensive for banks than handling your balance, etc.)

In the long term the fees are the only thing that pay for the security of the system. Its hard to say if Bitcoin will be more efficient than current financial transaction systems but I think it will most likely be the case, therefore Bitcoin fees will probably always be very low.

Having said that, it is perfectly possible today to send transactions without fees!
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