2018 Trillion $ Bitcoin marketcap

[thecodebear]

You guys realize that Bitcoin could very possibly hit a trillion dollar market cap next year.

Pretty cool to think about.

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[pr3m0nition]

Going to take a guess here and say that it will be 1 trillion by june of 2018. This goes to show that the technology is spreading and people are gaining awareness.   

Distributed ledger's are the way of the future.

[thecodebear]

Going to take a guess here and say that it will be 1 trillion by june of 2018. This goes to show that the technology is spreading and people are gaining awareness.   

Distributed ledger's are the way of the future.

That would be amazing haha. I wouldn't complain.

Let's see thats two doublings plus another 25% from where we are now. I could see September 2018 if this thing just keeps running away like it is now. Doublings have averaged 3-4 months, though of course it went from $6k-$12k now in the past 6 or so weeks but I think that's because of the lead-up to futures getting everyone excited about Wall St entering for real next year. I could see the next two doublings taking 4 months each. Either way it's gonna be the biggest year yet!

[oblivi]

Going to take a guess here and say that it will be 1 trillion by june of 2018. This goes to show that the technology is spreading and people are gaining awareness.  

Distributed ledger's are the way of the future.

That would be amazing haha. I wouldn't complain.

Let's see thats two doublings plus another 25% from where we are now. I could see September 2018 if this thing just keeps running away like it is now. Doublings have averaged 3-4 months, though of course it went from $6k-$12k now in the past 6 or so weeks but I think that's because of the lead-up to futures getting everyone excited about Wall St entering for real next year. I could see the next two doublings taking 4 months each. Either way it's gonna be the biggest year yet!

It's yet to be seen if all this hype around "wall street money" will be positive or not. I've seen a lot of people is looking forward to short the price of bitcoin because they think it's getting out of hand. If we are able to get through the shorting forces, im sure we will thrive to $20,000+, if the shorts are too much to deal with, we'll go lower. Since nobody knows the outcome, if you can afford it, hold through the crash, it's what has been proven to work since day 1, you will end up winning. Bitcoin is not going anywhere because some Wall St whales decide to short it, we will keep going higher long term.

A trillion for $2018 is definitely doable. Im looking at gold's marketcap in the long term (that's $400,000 a coin).

[thecodebear]

Going to take a guess here and say that it will be 1 trillion by june of 2018. This goes to show that the technology is spreading and people are gaining awareness.  

Distributed ledger's are the way of the future.

That would be amazing haha. I wouldn't complain.

Let's see thats two doublings plus another 25% from where we are now. I could see September 2018 if this thing just keeps running away like it is now. Doublings have averaged 3-4 months, though of course it went from $6k-$12k now in the past 6 or so weeks but I think that's because of the lead-up to futures getting everyone excited about Wall St entering for real next year. I could see the next two doublings taking 4 months each. Either way it's gonna be the biggest year yet!

It's yet to be seen if all this hype around "wall street money" will be positive or not. I've seen a lot of people is looking forward to short the price of bitcoin because they think it's getting out of hand. If we are able to get through the shorting forces, im sure we will thrive to $20,000+, if the shorts are too much to deal with, we'll go lower. Since nobody knows the outcome, if you can afford it, hold through the crash, it's what has been proven to work since day 1, you will end up winning. Bitcoin is not going anywhere because some Wall St whales decide to short it, we will keep going higher long term.

A trillion for $2018 is definitely doable. Im looking at gold's marketcap in the long term (that's $400,000 a coin).

I agree a marketcap around gold ($400,000k/btc) I think is a real good long term target.

I'm not worried about this whole Wall St shorting thing. Some will want to short, some will want to go long, to do either they'll need to buy up lots of it, and doing so will raise the price and organic user growth will continue to increase rapidly to levels many times higher than current, making it harder and harder for Wall St to control the market with shorts even if they wanted to.

Trillion $ marketcap 2018
$100k bitcoin 2019
maybe $400k bitcoin 2025+

[Anonylz]

I think that you are being very optimistic with that, we dont even know if bitcoin will still be online in six years from now.

Trillion $ marketcap 2018 $100k bitcoin 2019 maybe $400k bitcoin 2025+

I really think that the blockchain is here to stay, but it doesnt mean that there are no other ways to defeat bitcoin. The quantum computers will be realeased in no more than seven years from now, it means that they are going to be able to decrypt every private key = so bitcoin will be dead.

I am not spreading fear, we all believe in bitcoin, and i am going to hold a few of them for long term too, but seven years more fron now? i dont know mate.

[kokojie]

Actually I believe Bitcoin no longer have any value at this point. Steam was one of the earliest merchants to adopt Bitcoin, Steam just announced that they will stop accepting Bitcoin due to extremely high fees. What we are seeing is reverse adoption trend going on. Merchants are increasingly refusing to accept Bitcoin, these merchants were once "Bitcoin friendly" and eager to adopt new payment tech. This is very bad for Bitcoin.

Some might argue Bitcoin have become a "store of wealth", but it can't be a store of wealth without having some kind of utility. Gold/Silver are store of wealth, but they also have huge industrial utility. What we are witnessing here is Bitcoin's utility has been basically destroyed.

I believe some technically superior cryptocurrency that has resolved the high fee issues, might replace Bitcoin in the future of cryptocurrency.

[thecodebear]

Actually I believe Bitcoin no longer have any value at this point. Steam was one of the earliest merchants to adopt Bitcoin, Steam just announced that they will stop accepting Bitcoin due to extremely high fees. What we are seeing is reverse adoption trend going on. Merchants are increasingly refusing to accept Bitcoin, these merchants were once "Bitcoin friendly" and eager to adopt new payment tech. This is very bad for Bitcoin.

Some might argue Bitcoin have become a "store of wealth", but it can't be a store of wealth without having some kind of utility. Gold/Silver are store of wealth, but they also have huge industrial utility. What we are witnessing here is Bitcoin's utility has been basically destroyed.

I believe some technically superior cryptocurrency that has resolved the high fee issues, might replace Bitcoin in the future of cryptocurrency.

LN v1.0 was just tested on the bitcoin mainnet for the first time today. Once LN gets implemented high fees will be a thing of the past. Bitcoin's utility is not being destroyed, blockchains just need to upgrade to reach mass adoption, and Bitcoin is on its way!

[thecodebear]

I think that you are being very optimistic with that, we dont even know if bitcoin will still be online in six years from now.

Trillion $ marketcap 2018 $100k bitcoin 2019 maybe $400k bitcoin 2025+

I really think that the blockchain is here to stay, but it doesnt mean that there are no other ways to defeat bitcoin. The quantum computers will be realeased in no more than seven years from now, it means that they are going to be able to decrypt every private key = so bitcoin will be dead.

I am not spreading fear, we all believe in bitcoin, and i am going to hold a few of them for long term too, but seven years more fron now? i dont know mate.

haha you are absolutely spreading fear trying to say quantum computers will be here in no more than 7 years. For one, it will probably take a lot longer than that to get quantum computers that are any use. Like probably decades. Also once they do arrive, all internet security is vulnerable. To say Bitcoin will be dead is beyond the point, everything would be dead, at least without upgrading to some quantum resistant security somehow. Quantum computing is not a real thread any time soon, certainly not in the next few years, and it is a much wider threat than just to bitcoin so bringing it up is completely irrelevant.

[txtravwill]

I agree a marketcap around gold ($400,000k/btc) I think is a real good long term target.

I'm not worried about this whole Wall St shorting thing. Some will want to short, some will want to go long, to do either they'll need to buy up lots of it, and doing so will raise the price and organic user growth will continue to increase rapidly to levels many times higher than current, making it harder and harder for Wall St to control the market with shorts even if they wanted to.

Trillion $ marketcap 2018
$100k bitcoin 2019
maybe $400k bitcoin 2025+

Agree that some will go with futures to hold long as well, probably more shorting though.  It is a bit worrisome.  Realize they don't have to own any bitcoin at all.  It is purely cash settled and doesn't touch the actual asset.  The pressure of shorting can push the spot price way down though potentially.

[thecodebear]

I agree a marketcap around gold ($400,000k/btc) I think is a real good long term target.

I'm not worried about this whole Wall St shorting thing. Some will want to short, some will want to go long, to do either they'll need to buy up lots of it, and doing so will raise the price and organic user growth will continue to increase rapidly to levels many times higher than current, making it harder and harder for Wall St to control the market with shorts even if they wanted to.

Trillion $ marketcap 2018
$100k bitcoin 2019
maybe $400k bitcoin 2025+

Agree that some will go with futures to hold long as well, probably more shorting though.  It is a bit worrisome.  Realize they don't have to own any bitcoin at all.  It is purely cash settled and doesn't touch the actual asset.  The pressure of shorting can push the spot price way down though potentially.

Well yeah thats what I was saying. Futures are cash settled, they alone can't do anything to the price. So if Wall St investors want to try to manipulate the market to ensure their futures contracts work out (specifically the ones who are planning to short) then they have to keep buying up bitcoin in order to dump it later because that's the only way to affect the market. This would increase volatility but the price would in general still rise as it is now.

"It is purely cash settled and doesn't touch the actual asset.  The pressure of shorting can push the spot price way down though potentially."

These two statement are incompatible. You say it doesn't touch the actual asset, which is correct, but then you say shorting futures can bring down the price, which is not true. The futures just go off the actual Bitcoin price. They could short ten trillion dollars worth of futures and it wouldn't affect the actual bitcoin price a single cent. The futures are pegged to the real Bitcoin price, they don't even have a price of their own. Shorting futures doesn't bring down anything.

[kokojie]

Actually I believe Bitcoin no longer have any value at this point. Steam was one of the earliest merchants to adopt Bitcoin, Steam just announced that they will stop accepting Bitcoin due to extremely high fees. What we are seeing is reverse adoption trend going on. Merchants are increasingly refusing to accept Bitcoin, these merchants were once "Bitcoin friendly" and eager to adopt new payment tech. This is very bad for Bitcoin.

Some might argue Bitcoin have become a "store of wealth", but it can't be a store of wealth without having some kind of utility. Gold/Silver are store of wealth, but they also have huge industrial utility. What we are witnessing here is Bitcoin's utility has been basically destroyed.

I believe some technically superior cryptocurrency that has resolved the high fee issues, might replace Bitcoin in the future of cryptocurrency.

LN v1.0 was just tested on the bitcoin mainnet for the first time today. Once LN gets implemented high fees will be a thing of the past. Bitcoin's utility is not being destroyed, blockchains just need to upgrade to reach mass adoption, and Bitcoin is on its way!

1. LN isn't proven to reduce fees, I don't really see how it can reduce fees except a few very specific use case. LN isn't some magical tech that can suddenly scale Bitcoin to Visa levels.
2. even if LN did reduce fees, it's a little too late, merchant adoption has reversed and Bitcoin's reputation has been tarnished in terms of being used as currency.

[minersday]

You guys realize that Bitcoin could very possibly hit a trillion dollar market cap next year.

Actual marketcap is over $390 Billion dollars right now, it was less than $180 Billion on the First of November.

More than x2 on the total marketcap in just one month and less than a week, this is incredible.


1 trillion can be easily touched during next year, and if all those companies who said that they were going to release bitcoin futures really open their futures exchange, a lot of people are going to speculate, and of course that they will keep buying more bitcoins.

This is just matter of time until we surpass the real capitalization of gold, we are at a 70% of hitting that.

[txtravwill]

I agree a marketcap around gold ($400,000k/btc) I think is a real good long term target.

I'm not worried about this whole Wall St shorting thing. Some will want to short, some will want to go long, to do either they'll need to buy up lots of it, and doing so will raise the price and organic user growth will continue to increase rapidly to levels many times higher than current, making it harder and harder for Wall St to control the market with shorts even if they wanted to.

Trillion $ marketcap 2018
$100k bitcoin 2019
maybe $400k bitcoin 2025+

Agree that some will go with futures to hold long as well, probably more shorting though.  It is a bit worrisome.  Realize they don't have to own any bitcoin at all.  It is purely cash settled and doesn't touch the actual asset.  The pressure of shorting can push the spot price way down though potentially.

Well yeah thats what I was saying. Futures are cash settled, they alone can't do anything to the price. So if Wall St investors want to try to manipulate the market to ensure their futures contracts work out (specifically the ones who are planning to short) then they have to keep buying up bitcoin in order to dump it later because that's the only way to affect the market. This would increase volatility but the price would in general still rise as it is now.

"It is purely cash settled and doesn't touch the actual asset.  The pressure of shorting can push the spot price way down though potentially."

These two statement are incompatible. You say it doesn't touch the actual asset, which is correct, but then you say shorting futures can bring down the price, which is not true. The futures just go off the actual Bitcoin price. They could short ten trillion dollars worth of futures and it wouldn't affect the actual bitcoin price a single cent. The futures are pegged to the real Bitcoin price, they don't even have a price of their own. Shorting futures doesn't bring down anything.

Nah we are aligned ;-).  I was just trying to say that the Bitcoin spot market, will pay attention to futures.  If there are a ton of shorts at X, then spot buyers typically in a market temper their long buying/holding.  Bitcoin is a strange animal though in which people may pay less attention to futures.  Wall Street investors will though.

[thecodebear]

Actually I believe Bitcoin no longer have any value at this point. Steam was one of the earliest merchants to adopt Bitcoin, Steam just announced that they will stop accepting Bitcoin due to extremely high fees. What we are seeing is reverse adoption trend going on. Merchants are increasingly refusing to accept Bitcoin, these merchants were once "Bitcoin friendly" and eager to adopt new payment tech. This is very bad for Bitcoin.

Some might argue Bitcoin have become a "store of wealth", but it can't be a store of wealth without having some kind of utility. Gold/Silver are store of wealth, but they also have huge industrial utility. What we are witnessing here is Bitcoin's utility has been basically destroyed.

I believe some technically superior cryptocurrency that has resolved the high fee issues, might replace Bitcoin in the future of cryptocurrency.

LN v1.0 was just tested on the bitcoin mainnet for the first time today. Once LN gets implemented high fees will be a thing of the past. Bitcoin's utility is not being destroyed, blockchains just need to upgrade to reach mass adoption, and Bitcoin is on its way!

1. LN isn't proven to reduce fees, I don't really see how it can reduce fees except a few very specific use case. LN isn't some magical tech that can suddenly scale Bitcoin to Visa levels.
2. even if LN did reduce fees, it's a little too late, merchant adoption has reversed and Bitcoin's reputation has been tarnished in terms of being used as currency.

hahaha What you're saying in #1 shows you clearly don't have any idea what the LN is. So why are you trying to make claims about it??
#2...well thats just hilarious. You said that in your last post, why are you trying to peddle that lie. Bitcoin has far more merchant adoption then any other crypto obviously. And merchant adoption, also obviously, has barely even begun, to say its too late when we're still at the starting gate is just silly. I'm guessing you are perhaps a BCH shill who is desperately hoping merchants adopt it instead of Bitcoin before LN comes and utterly crushes it. Am I getting warm??

[thecodebear]

I agree a marketcap around gold ($400,000k/btc) I think is a real good long term target.

I'm not worried about this whole Wall St shorting thing. Some will want to short, some will want to go long, to do either they'll need to buy up lots of it, and doing so will raise the price and organic user growth will continue to increase rapidly to levels many times higher than current, making it harder and harder for Wall St to control the market with shorts even if they wanted to.

Trillion $ marketcap 2018
$100k bitcoin 2019
maybe $400k bitcoin 2025+

Agree that some will go with futures to hold long as well, probably more shorting though.  It is a bit worrisome.  Realize they don't have to own any bitcoin at all.  It is purely cash settled and doesn't touch the actual asset.  The pressure of shorting can push the spot price way down though potentially.

Well yeah thats what I was saying. Futures are cash settled, they alone can't do anything to the price. So if Wall St investors want to try to manipulate the market to ensure their futures contracts work out (specifically the ones who are planning to short) then they have to keep buying up bitcoin in order to dump it later because that's the only way to affect the market. This would increase volatility but the price would in general still rise as it is now.

"It is purely cash settled and doesn't touch the actual asset.  The pressure of shorting can push the spot price way down though potentially."

These two statement are incompatible. You say it doesn't touch the actual asset, which is correct, but then you say shorting futures can bring down the price, which is not true. The futures just go off the actual Bitcoin price. They could short ten trillion dollars worth of futures and it wouldn't affect the actual bitcoin price a single cent. The futures are pegged to the real Bitcoin price, they don't even have a price of their own. Shorting futures doesn't bring down anything.

Nah we are aligned ;-).  I was just trying to say that the Bitcoin spot market, will pay attention to futures.  If there are a ton of shorts at X, then spot buyers typically in a market temper their long buying/holding.  Bitcoin is a strange animal though in which people may pay less attention to futures.  Wall Street investors will though.

ok i see. To me the idea that Bitcoin owners will pay any attention to what the futures are doing is just absurd. Why would any bitcoin investors care what a cash settled futures market does?? It doesn't touch bitcoin so has no effect on Bitcoin so Bitcoin owners won't care. That's like a horse caring about how many people bet on it to win a race. But also as I said, futures won't even have their own price. Every day the futures have to settle up against the actual bitcoin spot price. So it's not like there will even be a futures price that anyone could look at to see if it is diverging from the bitcoin price. The futures price IS the bitcoin spot price, no matter how much money is thrown at long or short futures.

[kokojie]

Actually I believe Bitcoin no longer have any value at this point. Steam was one of the earliest merchants to adopt Bitcoin, Steam just announced that they will stop accepting Bitcoin due to extremely high fees. What we are seeing is reverse adoption trend going on. Merchants are increasingly refusing to accept Bitcoin, these merchants were once "Bitcoin friendly" and eager to adopt new payment tech. This is very bad for Bitcoin.

Some might argue Bitcoin have become a "store of wealth", but it can't be a store of wealth without having some kind of utility. Gold/Silver are store of wealth, but they also have huge industrial utility. What we are witnessing here is Bitcoin's utility has been basically destroyed.

I believe some technically superior cryptocurrency that has resolved the high fee issues, might replace Bitcoin in the future of cryptocurrency.

LN v1.0 was just tested on the bitcoin mainnet for the first time today. Once LN gets implemented high fees will be a thing of the past. Bitcoin's utility is not being destroyed, blockchains just need to upgrade to reach mass adoption, and Bitcoin is on its way!

1. LN isn't proven to reduce fees, I don't really see how it can reduce fees except a few very specific use case. LN isn't some magical tech that can suddenly scale Bitcoin to Visa levels.
2. even if LN did reduce fees, it's a little too late, merchant adoption has reversed and Bitcoin's reputation has been tarnished in terms of being used as currency.

hahaha What you're saying in #1 shows you clearly don't have any idea what the LN is. So why are you trying to make claims about it??
#2...well thats just hilarious. You said that in your last post, why are you trying to peddle that lie. Bitcoin has far more merchant adoption then any other crypto obviously. And merchant adoption, also obviously, has barely even begun, to say its too late when we're still at the starting gate is just silly. I'm guessing you are perhaps a BCH shill who is desperately hoping merchants adopt it instead of Bitcoin before LN comes and utterly crushes it. Am I getting warm??

Then show me how LN will reduce fees for Steam? You understand that to open/close a LN channel, you have to makes minimum two transactions ON CHAIN? how will Steam utilize the LN channel for each purchase of games from each customer? Close the channel like once a year? Sure that'll be agreeable, lol, no business will allow their revenue to be delayed for a year.

Basically, you have to make at least 3 transactions while the channel is open, for LN to be worthwhile at all. The use case is extremely limited.

[thecodebear]

Actually I believe Bitcoin no longer have any value at this point. Steam was one of the earliest merchants to adopt Bitcoin, Steam just announced that they will stop accepting Bitcoin due to extremely high fees. What we are seeing is reverse adoption trend going on. Merchants are increasingly refusing to accept Bitcoin, these merchants were once "Bitcoin friendly" and eager to adopt new payment tech. This is very bad for Bitcoin.

Some might argue Bitcoin have become a "store of wealth", but it can't be a store of wealth without having some kind of utility. Gold/Silver are store of wealth, but they also have huge industrial utility. What we are witnessing here is Bitcoin's utility has been basically destroyed.

I believe some technically superior cryptocurrency that has resolved the high fee issues, might replace Bitcoin in the future of cryptocurrency.

LN v1.0 was just tested on the bitcoin mainnet for the first time today. Once LN gets implemented high fees will be a thing of the past. Bitcoin's utility is not being destroyed, blockchains just need to upgrade to reach mass adoption, and Bitcoin is on its way!

1. LN isn't proven to reduce fees, I don't really see how it can reduce fees except a few very specific use case. LN isn't some magical tech that can suddenly scale Bitcoin to Visa levels.
2. even if LN did reduce fees, it's a little too late, merchant adoption has reversed and Bitcoin's reputation has been tarnished in terms of being used as currency.

hahaha What you're saying in #1 shows you clearly don't have any idea what the LN is. So why are you trying to make claims about it??
#2...well thats just hilarious. You said that in your last post, why are you trying to peddle that lie. Bitcoin has far more merchant adoption then any other crypto obviously. And merchant adoption, also obviously, has barely even begun, to say its too late when we're still at the starting gate is just silly. I'm guessing you are perhaps a BCH shill who is desperately hoping merchants adopt it instead of Bitcoin before LN comes and utterly crushes it. Am I getting warm??

Then show me how LN will reduce fees for Steam? You understand that to open/close a LN channel, you have to makes minimum two transactions ON CHAIN? how will Steam utilize the LN channel for each purchase of games from each customer? Close the channel like once a year? Sure that'll be agreeable, lol, no business will allow their revenue to be delayed for a year.

Basically, you have to make at least 3 transactions while the channel is open, for LN to be worthwhile at all. The use case is extremely limited.

Did you not even think about how this would work before you wrote that? a year?? haha. why would they keep it open for a year??

I don't know what payment options Steam has. So i'll just quickly explain in general. Any serious merchant probably has lots and lots of people buying stuff every day. If they use credit cards the merchant loses 3%+ on every transaction. LN sure they do two on chain transactions to open and close a payment channel, those fees would be nothing compared to however much business they are doing. They could open and close their payment channel every 24 hours if they wanted, or however often they wanted, two onchain fees are nothing on a daily basis for a business. So if they keep the payment channel open for even just 24 hours, they might do hundreds of transactions that day and we don't know exactly what LN fees will be but the Poon guy who came up with LN said they should be in the 0.1% to 1% range. So even if it's 1%, that means on every single one of hundreds of transactions a day they are saving 2%+. For a business that would end up being a lot of money!!

So why exactly do you think saving money is of no interest to businesses?? I didn't realize saving money was an "extremely limited use case" haha

[youngagethinker]

Going to take a guess here and say that it will be 1 trillion by june of 2018. This goes to show that the technology is spreading and people are gaining awareness.   

Distributed ledger's are the way of the future.

True. If we're talking about the potential that the blockchain can bring, this is really a trillion dollars industry. But of course the bank won't let us that easily. The Rothschild's, the wall streets (the oldies there who are blinded by the traditional system and think they know a lot about trading but know nothing about trading cryptocurrencies). So this will be a back and forth changes of prices and it would take years before we reach that market cap, it's not that easy and they won't easily let us. I'm hoping that were going to stand at our own ground and fight for the blockchain development. The banks are the unscraping wall, but if we get passed through that. Welcome to the new system. The blockchain.

[kokojie]

Actually I believe Bitcoin no longer have any value at this point. Steam was one of the earliest merchants to adopt Bitcoin, Steam just announced that they will stop accepting Bitcoin due to extremely high fees. What we are seeing is reverse adoption trend going on. Merchants are increasingly refusing to accept Bitcoin, these merchants were once "Bitcoin friendly" and eager to adopt new payment tech. This is very bad for Bitcoin.

Some might argue Bitcoin have become a "store of wealth", but it can't be a store of wealth without having some kind of utility. Gold/Silver are store of wealth, but they also have huge industrial utility. What we are witnessing here is Bitcoin's utility has been basically destroyed.

I believe some technically superior cryptocurrency that has resolved the high fee issues, might replace Bitcoin in the future of cryptocurrency.

LN v1.0 was just tested on the bitcoin mainnet for the first time today. Once LN gets implemented high fees will be a thing of the past. Bitcoin's utility is not being destroyed, blockchains just need to upgrade to reach mass adoption, and Bitcoin is on its way!

1. LN isn't proven to reduce fees, I don't really see how it can reduce fees except a few very specific use case. LN isn't some magical tech that can suddenly scale Bitcoin to Visa levels.
2. even if LN did reduce fees, it's a little too late, merchant adoption has reversed and Bitcoin's reputation has been tarnished in terms of being used as currency.

hahaha What you're saying in #1 shows you clearly don't have any idea what the LN is. So why are you trying to make claims about it??
#2...well thats just hilarious. You said that in your last post, why are you trying to peddle that lie. Bitcoin has far more merchant adoption then any other crypto obviously. And merchant adoption, also obviously, has barely even begun, to say its too late when we're still at the starting gate is just silly. I'm guessing you are perhaps a BCH shill who is desperately hoping merchants adopt it instead of Bitcoin before LN comes and utterly crushes it. Am I getting warm??

Then show me how LN will reduce fees for Steam? You understand that to open/close a LN channel, you have to makes minimum two transactions ON CHAIN? how will Steam utilize the LN channel for each purchase of games from each customer? Close the channel like once a year? Sure that'll be agreeable, lol, no business will allow their revenue to be delayed for a year.

Basically, you have to make at least 3 transactions while the channel is open, for LN to be worthwhile at all. The use case is extremely limited.

Did you not even think about how this would work before you wrote that? a year?? haha. why would they keep it open for a year??

I don't know what payment options Steam has. So i'll just quickly explain in general. Any serious merchant probably has lots and lots of people buying stuff every day. If they use credit cards the merchant loses 3%+ on every transaction. LN sure they do two on chain transactions to open and close a payment channel, those fees would be nothing compared to however much business they are doing. They could open and close their payment channel every 24 hours if they wanted, or however often they wanted, two onchain fees are nothing on a daily basis for a business. So if they keep the payment channel open for even just 24 hours, they might do hundreds of transactions that day and we don't know exactly what LN fees will be but the Poon guy who came up with LN said they should be in the 0.1% to 1% range. So even if it's 1%, that means on every single one of hundreds of transactions a day they are saving 2%+. For a business that would end up being a lot of money!!

So why exactly do you think saving money is of no interest to businesses?? I didn't realize saving money was an "extremely limited use case" haha

Obviously, you don't even know how LN works. The channel is opened between 2 parties, the merchant and the customer. So you need minimum two onchain transaction for EACH customer, because you need a channel for each distinct customer. Get it? If the merchant open and close a channel every 24 hours, for EACH customer, then that's probably MORE transactions than we currently have, because vast majority of customers will only do 1 transaction.