What's best - SHA256 or Scrypt?

[Vlad2Vlad]

There's a debate and many think Scrypt coins are better than SHA256 but the biggest reasons I see is a lack of belief that ASICS will be affordable.

In reality, ASICS are starting to ship in mass quantities already and by next year anybody will be able to buy an ASIC for $300 which will mine up to 20 times faster than a really good computer today while eating only 1/10th the energy.

In my mind ASICS are here and they're way better than GPU's so why launch a coin which won't be future proof?

If people prefer scrypt then that's fine but I'd like to know how difficult would it be to do a hard fork and turn a scrypt coin into a SHA256 coin if everyone does wanna use an ASIC rig next year?  Is this something that can be done with ease?  TIA

[FiiNALiZE]

I don't think ASIC's are going to make a huge difference to 95% of the crypto community.

Those other 5% who have heavily invested in GPU farms will be hurt the most but they could either mine Scrypt coins or sell their GPU's and get ASICs.

[Vivisector999]

You should really add to the poll that the poll is what would be the best encryption for a new alt coin.  And not what is the best in existence.  Since your on a Bitcoin forum.  Things are going to be a bit biased towards SHA256 if they think in any way the question is related to Bitcoin vs Litecoin.

[Vlad2Vlad]

You should really add to the poll that the poll is what would be the best encryption for a new alt coin.  And not what is the best in existence.  Since your on a Bitcoin forum.  Things are going to be a bit biased towards SHA256 if they think in any way the question is related to Bitcoin vs Litecoin.

Sorry, I thought the debate was about the mining protocol itself and not encryption.  I mean, bitcoin is as secure as can be so why even debate that.

Sorry, I can't alter the question and I had no idea security was even in question here. 

[Vannicke]

Scrypt is better for emerging coins, definitely, because SHA256 is now in the realm of ASICS.  Getting a new coin going you'll want upstart miners, which probably are more likely GPU miners than the people that load off they're cash on ASICs.  Though, I think new altcoins in general will have a hard time getting out of the gate.

[Vlad2Vlad]

Man, I'm shocked by the responses to the poll, most want scrypt.  

I don't have an ASIC although I ordered some 2 months ago but I badly wanna merge-mine so for me that alone means SHA256.

I expected most to want SHA256 for the same reason.  

I'm very surprised here but hey, if that's what people want I'll do it.  This isn't the right time to be stubborn.

Can somebody tell me if a hard fork is easy to Implement say next year if people all of sudden wanna switch to SHA256?  Hypothetically speaking - would this be hard to do with a scrypt coin?  TIA.

[Vlad2Vlad]

Scrypt is better for emerging coins, definitely, because SHA256 is now in the realm of ASICS.  Getting a new coin going you'll want upstart miners, which probably are more likely GPU miners than the people that load off they're cash on ASICs.  Though, I think new altcoins in general will have a hard time getting out of the gate.

But that's not true if you make it a merge-coin?  People will Simply merge mine it the way they do ixCoin (which would have died had it not been for SHA256 and merge mining) and devcoin and a few others.

So for me that's not a great argument for a scrypt coin.  So far I have not heard why scrypt is a better idea.

To me merged mining is a huge winner but if this can be switched to a SHA256 coin next year in the event people change their minds then I'd be ok with scrypt.

[Vannicke]

Can somebody tell me if a hard fork is easy to Implement say next year if people all of sudden wanna switch to SHA256?  Hypothetically speaking - would this be hard to do with a scrypt coin?  TIA.

That's a HUGE security issue to take on after a coin starts out ... the basis of the entire blockstack can't be suddenly changed to a new protocol like that ... old transactions will no longer be verifiable, etc.

I'd say it's next to impossible to do.

[Vannicke]

To me merged mining is a huge winner but if this can be switched to a SHA256 coin next year in the event people change their minds then I'd be ok with scrypt.

I see your point with merged-mining - but I am wondering, are you starting an altcoin?

[Vlad2Vlad]

Can somebody tell me if a hard fork is easy to Implement say next year if people all of sudden wanna switch to SHA256?  Hypothetically speaking - would this be hard to do with a scrypt coin?  TIA.

That's a HUGE security issue to take on after a coin starts out ... the basis of the entire blockstack can't be suddenly changed to a new protocol like that ... old transactions will no longer be verifiable, etc.

I'd say it's next to impossible to do.

Well what about other coins that did hard forks, including Bitcoin or is it the fact we're switching the encryption model?  

If that's true then I have a problem with this cause ASICS are the future.  In a few years the only way to mine will be via ASICS.  I think Satoshi knew this and he's a smart anonymous guy.

Seriously, you guys want me to launch a coin that may be obsolete in 2-3 years?  You can't merge mine scrypt coins.  What if I'm right and Bitcoin goes to to $1,000 next year - you guys don't want to be able to mine this coin and Bitcoin, plus a few others together?  That would be so much better than mining a single scrypt coin.

[Vlad2Vlad]

To me merged mining is a huge winner but if this can be switched to a SHA256 coin next year in the event people change their minds then I'd be ok with scrypt.

I see your point with merged-mining - but I am wondering, are you starting an altcoin?

I'm hoping to start an alt coin but I want to do something very different.  I want to design it as much as possible with the advantages and preferences going to the miners since nobody has put them first, from what I can tell.  

I'm running these polls to find out what people want and what they care about most.

Odd, some want Cherry Coke and think Justin Bieber is a hot lady.  Weird group of individuals but I still wanna put out a coin to their liking.

[#Darren]

ASIC's will be $300.00?  

I thought they were thousands...

[Vannicke]

In my opinion most upstart coins will be obsolete in a few years ... SHA256 for ASICS doesn't equal longevity.  Bitcoin already exists, so unless you are bringing something revolutionary to the table, it will be hard to see a lot of potential in it.  LiteCoin will probably keep its spot in second because it is the first/most used scrypt implementation.  Merge-coins may survive a while because they are mergeable [is that a word?], but they often don't have much value, and aren't traded for anything but bitcoins, adding little to nothing to the value of just mining bitcoin.

Most altcoins are miner driven coins, and scrypt mining is often more profitable than BTC mining, so I think that a coin is often most profitable in scrypt.  Otherwise they aren't very popular at all.

EDIT: Profitability is most important to most miners, and longevity has little or nothing to do with what they care about.  It doesn't matter to most miners if TRC or PPC or LTC or DGC goes bust in a year, they are profitable this second, so miners jump to the most profitable one.

[Vannicke]

ASIC's will be $300.00?  

I thought they were thousands...

AsimMiner USB miners are down to what?  1BTC or so?  That's plenty under $300 ... Jalapenos are also $274, and about the only thing shipping en masse atm.

EDIT: I may be redefining "en masse" here, but these two are the only things shipping more than a few atm that I know of. >_>

[hate_the_face]

ASICs are a problem because it costs a lot of money to sustain a GPU mining farm (enough to somewhat offset the profits made from them), whereas it does not cost a lot of money to sustain an ASIC farm. The problem is 99% of the people who spend these coins do not have the time or patience to create an ASIC operation in their garage. By consolidating the creation process you are only alienating people who wish to support it without having to deal with a company like Butterfly Labs. I think everyone can agree that AMD is a respectable company that is not out to scam people. ASIC providers? Not so much

GPUs have other uses besides mining, bitcoin ASICS do not. This allows people who are interested in computer hardware but do not know about cryptocoins (aka, huge amount of people) to be able to discover and enter the foray out of their own interest, not because a bunch of short-sighted shysters found a way to create a temporary separation of power that forced people to conform to their ways or get out.

considering we are talking about a currency that is all about having built in mechanisms to counteract possible exploitation, ASICs certainly spit right in the face of that.

[Etlase2]

I'm hoping to start an alt coin but I want to do something very different.  I want to design it as much as possible with the advantages and preferences going to the miners since nobody has put them first, from what I can tell.  

Except you haven't a clue as to how to do this and are relying on polls to find answers rather than actually working on researching this yourself. You are the laziest and probably least competent person to ever try making a shitclone. But kudos for trying to come up with super original ideas like "paying myself 1%" and such, I am positive this will be a keeper.

[TheSwede75]

This thread makes me wonder if there really is a surplus of idiots in the world. "What's best, chocolate or strawberry?"..

Just stop you absolute moron.

It's not about CPU vs. GPU vs. ASIC vs. ??

Are people really so fucking clueless that they don't understand that with value comes innovation. If SCRYPT would have been the algorithm to become "mainstream" first we would already have optimized SCRYPT ASIC. It's all about the market driving research and innovation.

FUCK people are just dumb.

In 1 year there will (if the altcoin muppetry keeps up) be SCRYPT miners and some moron will ask " what's best: SCRYPT OR "next algorithm without a turn key game changer""

Fucking humans!

[Vlad2Vlad]

ASIC's will be $300.00?  

I thought they were thousands...

No, you can buy a 5GH ASIC miner from BFL right now for $300.  And 5GH is 15 Times faster than a similarly priced ATI Radeon 7870 while consuming 50 watts compared to closer to 200 watts.  

Only problem now is they're taking about 3-4 months to ship if you order today but by next year they will definitely be doing much higher production.  The slow hard part is over - they spent the last 12 months designing the ASIC.  Now it's shipping in volumes.

And there's other ASICS companies coming online and like all tech, imagine ASIC 2.0 and 3.0, they will get much faster and much more efficient while getting cheaper.

Anyone thinking they'll make any money with GPU's by next year is nuts.  

And this is part of what will bring in the masses - cheap and effective ASICS costing 1/8th the price of a good computer like the one I bought for mining.

That's why I think SHA256 is the way to go cause you'll be able to mine and get your coin mined via a merged pool or a mergeCoin along with 10+ other coins.  Cause at that point there won't be any money left in mining 1 coin so people will find ways to mine more and more coins together but if your coin is scrypt it won't be invited to the party so scrypt coins will be fringe coins and that's a very bad thing for valuation. You want a coins as mainstream as possible.  

Satoshi wasn't a fool - SHA256 is the way to go for the future.

[hate_the_face]

If SCRYPT would have been the algorithm to become "mainstream" first we would already have optimized SCRYPT ASIC.

how do you figure?

[Vlad2Vlad]

ASICs are a problem because it costs a lot of money to sustain a GPU mining farm (enough to somewhat offset the profits made from them), whereas it does not cost a lot of money to sustain an ASIC farm. The problem is 99% of the people who spend these coins do not have the time or patience to create an ASIC operation in their garage. By consolidating the creation process you are only alienating people who wish to support it without having to deal with a company like Butterfly Labs. I think everyone can agree that AMD is a respectable company that is not out to scam people. ASIC providers? Not so much

GPUs have other uses besides mining, bitcoin ASICS do not. This allows people who are interested in computer hardware but do not know about cryptocoins (aka, huge amount of people) to be able to discover and enter the foray out of their own interest, not because a bunch of short-sighted shysters found a way to create a temporary separation of power that forced people to conform to their ways or get out.

considering we are talking about a currency that is all about having built in mechanisms to counteract possible exploitation, ASICs certainly spit right in the face of that.

Ok I hear you but those people can mine SHA256 with their GPU rigs so they're not getting shut out and they'll be able to merge mine as well which can be huge once they launch a merge coin.

While if you go scrypt you are cutting out everyone who does buy and ASIC and that's gonna be millions of people.  An ASIC can be had now for $300 and by next year it will be cheaper and better (And available) so many more new entrants will buy an ASIC rather than a computer or in addition to their computer.

I don't see how excluding the future - millions of ASIC miners from your coin can be good for that Coin's value.  I think this is shortsighted mentality thinking only about what I can mine for myself right now rather than what's best for me for the longer run.