What's best - SHA256 or Scrypt?

[Vlad2Vlad]

If SCRYPT would have been the algorithm to become "mainstream" first we would already have optimized SCRYPT ASIC.

how do you figure?

You can program an ASIC to do any one thing.  Right now they hunt Bitcoins but I think they can be fooled into merge mining other coins.

[Vivisector999]

I hate to break it to you Vlad, but in a world of ASIC miners (Future-proofing you claim) at a time when you can purchase a 50 G Hash/s ASIC miner for $300, the difficulty will be so high on every decent SHA256 based coin, that you will still be looking at making pennies a day.  Meanwhile the guys sitting on their 500 T hash farms will continue to pile in the profits from mining.  The algorithm you choose isn't going to change this.

The reason scrypt is better for a start me up alt coin is the fact that it is far more secure, especially when most big miners will be in the big coins, and not in your little alt coin.  You will be bound to attract smaller GPU based miners first until you can prove the coin to be worth something.  During that time, anyone that wants to watch your coin crumble will be able to do it with relative ease with a handful of ASIC's at their disposal.  Or possibly even 1.  

For you, sure you think "who cares, I didn't but any money into it" but in order to even get the coin off the ground, people (miners) need to put their money (electricity and time) into mining you coin.  Then people have to put money into your coin to give it worth.  If you as a developer only see the coin as your personal playground, and who cares if I cause everyone to loose their money ect from it, you shouldn't be developing a coin to begin with.  

    

[Vivisector999]

If SCRYPT would have been the algorithm to become "mainstream" first we would already have optimized SCRYPT ASIC.

how do you figure?

You can program an ASIC to do any one thing.  Right now they hunt Bitcoins but I think they can be fooled into merge mining other coins.

No they can't.  LOL.  The AS part of the name "Application specific " says it all. 

[Vlad2Vlad]

I hate to break it to you Vlad, but in a world of ASIC miners (Future-proofing you claim) at a time when you can purchase a 50 G Hash/s ASIC miner for $300, the difficulty will be so high on every decent SHA256 based coin, that you will still be looking at making pennies a day.  Meanwhile the guys sitting on their 500 T hash farms will continue to pile in the profits from mining.  The algorithm you choose isn't going to change this.

The reason scrypt is better for a start me up alt coin is the fact that it is far more secure, especially when most big miners will be in the big coins, and not in your little alt coin.  You will be bound to attract smaller GPU based miners first until you can prove the coin to be worth something.  During that time, anyone that wants to watch your coin crumble will be able to do it with relative ease with a handful of ASIC's at their disposal.  Or possibly even 1.  

For you, sure you think "who cares, I didn't but any money into it" but in order to even get the coin off the ground, people (miners) need to put their money (electricity and time) into mining you coin.  Then people have to put money into your coin to give it worth.  If you as a developer only see the coin as your personal playground, and who cares if I cause everyone to loose their money ect from it, you shouldn't be developing a coin to begin with.  

    

I would be losing time and money as well. 

Don't you think merge mining will mitigate the difficulty issue cause I agree, the difficulty will skyrocket.

And I don't want a coin to be a forever niche player in the scrypt underworld - I'd rather take my chances.  And people aren't gonna lose their money on my coin - nobody buy a rig just for ixCoin, they buy them for mining and they mine the most profitable things out there.

So if this doesn't work out I'm really the only one losing out, both, Time and money.

But it seems everyone wants scrypt so that's it.  I guess there could always be a re-launch, like a separate coin if it ever comes to that.  I mean, I can easily see a SHA256 version of Litecoin.  People will follow the namebrand regardless of which encryption it uses. 

[Vlad2Vlad]

If SCRYPT would have been the algorithm to become "mainstream" first we would already have optimized SCRYPT ASIC.

how do you figure?

You can program an ASIC to do any one thing.  Right now they hunt Bitcoins but I think they can be fooled into merge mining other coins.

No they can't.  LOL.  The AS part of the name "Application specific " says it all.  

I didn't mean me or you reprogram an ASIC..  I meant you can design an ASIC from the ground up to do any one thing well.  If LTC gets to $50 and demand goes nuts they'll build Scrypt ASICS, but those will only do that one thing they were programmed to do and not also go after SHA256 coins.

That's what I meant.

Edit:

I see what you meant.  I thought I saw guys using BFL rigs to merge mine Bitcoin and one other coin on Bitminter.  I'd have to double check.  

[hate_the_face]

And I don't want a coin to be a forever niche player in the scrypt underworld - I'd rather take my chances. 

Cryptocurrencies will forever be a niche so long as they remain anonymous. But that is the very thing that created the niche

So either be good at being a niche, or fall on your face trying to become what they set out to combat.

Can't have it both ways

[DeathAndTaxes]

You should really add to the poll that the poll is what would be the best encryption for a new alt coin.  And not what is the best in existence.  Since your on a Bitcoin forum.  Things are going to be a bit biased towards SHA256 if they think in any way the question is related to Bitcoin vs Litecoin.

Cryptography not encryption.  Neither BTC or LTC use encryption in the protocol.  Both use AES to encrypt client files.

[Vlad2Vlad]

And I don't want a coin to be a forever niche player in the scrypt underworld - I'd rather take my chances.

Cryptocurrencies will forever be a niche so long as they remain anonymous. But that is the very thing that created the niche

So either be good at being a niche, or fall on your face trying to become what they set out to combat.

Can't have it both ways

I'm certain Bitcoin will get its own ETF soon and if that happens its gonna blow the roof off alt coins.

The bankers will come in - big money, pro developers and then the ASIC buying craze will happen and everyone you know will be a miner.

I expect this to really kick in high gear sometime next year.  It's gonna happen very fast and furious.  Lots of alt coins will go very high very fast.  Lots of money to be made for anyone storing up alt coins now.

Bitcoin was just the beginning and that ETF will probably make Bitcoin's price blow past $1,000 and it will drag most of the other alt coins with it.

[Vlad2Vlad]

You should really add to the poll that the poll is what would be the best encryption for a new alt coin.  And not what is the best in existence.  Since your on a Bitcoin forum.  Things are going to be a bit biased towards SHA256 if they think in any way the question is related to Bitcoin vs Litecoin.

Cryptography not encryption.  Neither BTC or LTC use encryption in the protocol.  Both use AES to encrypt client files.

So can you do a hard fork then in the future to turn say a Scrypt coin into a SHA256 coin?  Thanks.

[DeathAndTaxes]

You should really add to the poll that the poll is what would be the best encryption for a new alt coin.  And not what is the best in existence.  Since your on a Bitcoin forum.  Things are going to be a bit biased towards SHA256 if they think in any way the question is related to Bitcoin vs Litecoin.

Cryptography not encryption.  Neither BTC or LTC use encryption in the protocol.  Both use AES to encrypt client files.

So can you do a hard fork then in the future to turn say a Scrypt coin into a SHA256 coin?  Thanks.

You can do a hard fork to do anything in the future. 
You could fork Bitcoin so the mining reward goes up to 50,000 BTC per block.
You could fork Bitcoin so that transactions are irreversible.
You could fork Bitcoin so early adopter coins which haven't been spent are erased.
You could fork Bitcoin so that the UN has complete oversight of address allocation and the ability to block transactions, seize funds, and identify users.

Technically these are trivial changes to the codebase.  However it is very likely 99.9999% of people will never use your fork.  It is unlikely that any crypto-currency will have a hard fork on a fundamental aspect.  You will never get the consensus necessary for it to be effective.

[mnyonpa]

On Bitminter as on many other pools it is possible to merge mine Namecoins together with BTC.

Besides, you can mine any SHA-256 coin with current ASICs.

[hate_the_face]

And I don't want a coin to be a forever niche player in the scrypt underworld - I'd rather take my chances.

Cryptocurrencies will forever be a niche so long as they remain anonymous. But that is the very thing that created the niche

So either be good at being a niche, or fall on your face trying to become what they set out to combat.

Can't have it both ways

I'm certain Bitcoin will get its own ETF soon and if that happens its gonna blow the roof off alt coins.

The bankers will come in - big money, pro developers and then the ASIC buying craze will happen and everyone you know will be a miner.

I expect this to really kick in high gear sometime next year.  It's gonna happen very fast and furious.  Lots of alt coins will go very high very fast.  Lots of money to be made for anyone storing up alt coins now.

Bitcoin was just the beginning and that ETF will probably make Bitcoin's price blow past $1,000 and it will drag most of the other alt coins with it.

Ok, you think that and I'll think what I think. Why pay 1,000 dollars for something with no face or unique tangible backing to it besides highly illegal and completely anonymous marketplaces?

A Bitcoin ETF is the beginning of the end of the BTC as we know it, and will only quicken the rate of people switching to alt coins.

Wake the fuck up and stop thinking with your wallet, which is being dominated by the thought of how to gain more fiat currency. You are becoming what you hate

[Etlase2]

Wake the fuck up and stop thinking with your wallet, which is being dominated by the thought of how to gain more fiat currency. You are becoming what you hate

Oh please, this guy has been a broke joke trying to make a payday from the start under the guise of "hay I'm honest, trust me".

[Vlad2Vlad]

You should really add to the poll that the poll is what would be the best encryption for a new alt coin.  And not what is the best in existence.  Since your on a Bitcoin forum.  Things are going to be a bit biased towards SHA256 if they think in any way the question is related to Bitcoin vs Litecoin.

Cryptography not encryption.  Neither BTC or LTC use encryption in the protocol.  Both use AES to encrypt client files.

So can you do a hard fork then in the future to turn say a Scrypt coin into a SHA256 coin?  Thanks.

You can do a hard fork to do anything in the future. 
You could fork Bitcoin so the mining reward goes up to 50,000 BTC per block.
You could fork Bitcoin so that transactions are irreversible.
You could fork Bitcoin so early adopter coins which haven't been spent are erased.
You could fork Bitcoin so that the UN has complete oversight of address allocation and the ability to block transactions, seize funds, and identify users.

Technically these are trivial changes to the codebase.  However it is very likely 99.9999% of people will never use your fork.  It is unlikely that any crypto-currency will have a hard fork on a fundamental aspect.  You will never get the consensus necessary for it to be effective.

Thanks a lot.  The part about NATO is interesting cause I think the govt will drool over the potential of digital money and what better way to implement your own than to hijack the most popular one (in the name of national security, of course).

Are you a programmer by the way or can you code?  I really need to ask a few questions to see if what I want is doable and how difficult it would be but the 2 guys helping launch coins aren't responding.  

And I'm worried if this is a good idea someone will steal it before I do it but you seem like a reputable guy but I don't know if you're a programmer or not.  TIA

[Vlad2Vlad]

On Bitminter as on many other pools it is possible to merge mine Namecoins together with BTC.

Besides, you can mine any SHA-256 coin with current ASICs.

Man, that's awesome news.  See, this is the biggest reason to go SHA256 - to have your coin merge mined with other coins.

I knew you could merge mine with a BFL ASIC but I thought you could only mine BTC as far as single coins go.  Where did you see you can mine any SHA256 coin with an ASIC, I even talked to josh at BFL and be said you can only mine Bitcoin so I was thrilled when I saw people successfully merge mining other coins WITH bitcoin.

[DeathAndTaxes]

And people aren't going to build Scrypt ASICs. God, when is this myth going to die? You can build a specialized processor to do only Scrypt, but it'll cost just as much as a GPU because you need a large amount of fast memory for it.

Define large.  Is 128KB (yes kilobytes not Megabytes or Gigabytes) large?  You are aware the Scrypt memory parameters chosen are far below what is recommended for low security real time use by the Scrypt designer.   It is roughly 1/100th as memory hard as recommended for low security applications and about 1/8000th as memory hard as what is recommended for high security applications.

[Vlad2Vlad]

Thanks a lot.  The part about NATO is interesting cause I think the govt will drool over the potential of digital money and what better way to implement your own than to hijack the most popular one (in the name of national security, of course).

Are you a programmer by the way or can you code?  I really need to ask a few questions to see if what I want is doable and how difficult it would be but the 2 guys helping launch coins aren't responding.  

And I'm worried if this is a good idea someone will steal it before I do it but you seem like a reputable guy but I don't know if you're a programmer or not.  TIA

I can code.

Yeah, but can I trust you?  The other guy had over 10,000 posts so I figure if he's been around this long he wouldn't want to risk his reputation on some silly feature.

Cause if this feature is really nice to have and someone else launches it first I'll be the me too guy and look like a hack.  It's the only small advantage I have if I do launch a coin. 

[Vlad2Vlad]

Thanks a lot.  The part about NATO is interesting cause I think the govt will drool over the potential of digital money and what better way to implement your own than to hijack the most popular one (in the name of national security, of course).

Are you a programmer by the way or can you code?  I really need to ask a few questions to see if what I want is doable and how difficult it would be but the 2 guys helping launch coins aren't responding.  

And I'm worried if this is a good idea someone will steal it before I do it but you seem like a reputable guy but I don't know if you're a programmer or not.  TIA

I can code.

Yeah, but can I trust you?  The other guy had over 10,000 posts so I figure if he's been around this long he wouldn't want to risk his reputation on some silly feature.

Cause if this feature is really nice to have and someone else launches it first I'll be the me too guy and look like a hack.  It's the only small advantage I have if I do launch a coin.  

Well, he could steal your idea, too, and nobody would believe you had it first because of his seniority. You have to trust someone down the line.

Man, that's such a good point.  This sucks.  Maybe I should just put it out here and that's that.  If its good its gonna get copied anyway, but I would like to be first to offer it.

[Vlad2Vlad]

If SCRYPT would have been the algorithm to become "mainstream" first we would already have optimized SCRYPT ASIC.

how do you figure?

You can program an ASIC to do any one thing.  Right now they hunt Bitcoins but I think they can be fooled into merge mining other coins.

No they can't.  LOL.  The AS part of the name "Application specific " says it all.  

I didn't mean me or you reprogram an ASIC..  I meant you can design an ASIC from the ground up to do any one thing well.  If LTC gets to $50 and demand goes nuts they'll build Scrypt ASICS, but those will only do that one thing they were programmed to do and not also go after SHA256 coins.

That's what I meant.

Edit:

I see what you meant.  I thought I saw guys using BFL rigs to merge mine Bitcoin and one other coin on Bitminter.  I'd have to double check.  

You can merge-mine with ASICs, because all they do is SHA-256d. And people aren't going to build Scrypt ASICs. God, when is this myth going to die? You can build a specialized processor to do only Scrypt, but it'll cost just as much as a GPU because you need a large amount of fast memory for it. That's also why this dumbfuck:

If SCRYPT would have been the algorithm to become "mainstream" first we would already have optimized SCRYPT ASIC.

has no idea what he's talking about.

Ahahhahahaaa.  You know I wanted to correct him too but after seeing how he was cursing at people I didn't bother but you're right.  They can build ASICS but SHA256 has an advantage.

I have to presume Satoshi thought or this stuff cause ASICS have been around a long time.  Another reason I like SHA256 over scrypt - besides merge mining many coins together it feels good staying on the path build by the genius who put together bitcoin.  

[hate_the_face]

I have to presume Satoshi thought or this stuff cause ASICS have been around a long time.  Another reason I like SHA256 over scrypt - besides merge mining many coins together it feels good staying on the path build by the genius who put together bitcoin.  

yeah it feels good hoping Bitcoin makes its way to the largest collection of financial institutions in the world

You can tell the people who are all about Bitcoin with money in mind, and those who actually use their minds