Epic level pump and dump

[thesavoyard]

Beware of Wall Street, they are experienced in robbing the general public. Bitcoin cannot be a "store of value." It is not digital gold. That would be Ethereum or Dash. Gold is useful as jewelry and for electronics, if investors interest in gold falls, the industry provides support for the price.

Bitcoin is only driven by investors since it isn't useful as a currency. When sell pressure becomes greater than buy pressure, the price will fall with no demand to catch it. This could lead to a panic and an epic crash. They don't care because you are buying into Bitcoin, adding value until it reaches its target price. Then they will start to sell, cashing out the value you added and leaving you as a bagholder.

 The only people who can fix this are the miners. They can upgrade Bitcoins software to make it useful as a currency, but they mining pools are not holders, they convert to Fiat immediately so high fees are in their interest. I think many investors have chosen Dash as an escape, that would explain why it rises when Bitcoin falls. We can either try and force the so-called "core team" and miners to update like BIP 148, or we can see a growing disaster that could have an effect on the world economy.

[thesavoyard]

People need to see this, I hope I'm wrong but I don't think I am. Just be careful not to count those chickens. We need another Bip 148, any plans in the works? I think mass adoption could happen with a software upgrade.

[kueyen]

How would the miners be able to stop this? In my understanding, if big investors enter the bitcoin scene and start to accumulate mass amounts of bitcoin, they can manipulate the price (at least to a certain extent) by buying or selling in mass quantities. This is my biggest fear as we hear news about banks and investment groups starting to adopt bitcoin.

[thesavoyard]

How would the miners be able to stop this? In my understanding, if big investors enter the bitcoin scene and start to accumulate mass amounts of bitcoin, they can manipulate the price (at least to a certain extent) by buying or selling in mass quantities. This is my biggest fear as we hear news about banks and investment groups starting to adopt bitcoin.

If they speed up the transaction and lower fees, it will become a currency. Then when investors sell, currency use will create a demand floor to prevent a crash.

[BitcoinHodler]

Bitcoin cannot be a "store of value." It is not digital gold. That would be Ethereum or Dash.

LOL, dream on.

Bitcoin is only driven by investors since it isn't useful as a currency.

the two altcoins you are clearly bag holding are even worse. look at what cryptokitties is doing to ethereum

When sell pressure becomes greater than buy pressure, the price will fall with no demand to catch it.

and Dash and Ethereum have this demand to catch it?

This could lead to a panic and an epic crash.

sometimes crashes are necessary in a market to right a wrong. and this rise to $19000 was horribly wrong and needs to be "corrected". if it corrects with a panic, then so be it. it won't be the first time a panic sell happens and will certainly not be the last.

The only people who can fix this are the miners.

If they speed up the transaction and lower fees, it will become a currency. Then when investors sell, currency use will create a demand floor to prevent a crash.

unfortunately you do not understand how bitcoin works.
miners have no power over fees or speed of the transactions. it is controlled by the block size and it needs to be limited. we can not have 1 GB blocks or we will see a doomed faith similar to what ETH is experiencing these days.

[kueyen]

How would the miners be able to stop this? In my understanding, if big investors enter the bitcoin scene and start to accumulate mass amounts of bitcoin, they can manipulate the price (at least to a certain extent) by buying or selling in mass quantities. This is my biggest fear as we hear news about banks and investment groups starting to adopt bitcoin.

If they speed up the transaction and lower fees, it will become a currency. Then when investors sell, currency use will create a demand floor to prevent a crash.

I see what you mean, but I think we need a paradigm shift for that to happen. I mean the dominant approach in the bitcoin community is to hodl and not spend bitcoin unless you absolutely have to. Couple that with how people have come to accept how long transactions are taking and how much they cost, I think the community has come to accept bitcoin as an asset and not as a currency, at least not in its current state.

[thesavoyard]

Bitcoin cannot be a "store of value." It is not digital gold. That would be Ethereum or Dash.

LOL, dream on.

Bitcoin is only driven by investors since it isn't useful as a currency.

the two altcoins you are clearly bag holding are even worse. look at what cryptokitties is doing to ethereum

When sell pressure becomes greater than buy pressure, the price will fall with no demand to catch it.

and Dash and Ethereum have this demand to catch it?

This could lead to a panic and an epic crash.

sometimes crashes are necessary in a market to right a wrong. and this rise to $19000 was horribly wrong and needs to be "corrected". if it corrects with a panic, then so be it. it won't be the first time a panic sell happens and will certainly not be the last.

The only people who can fix this are the miners.

If they speed up the transaction and lower fees, it will become a currency. Then when investors sell, currency use will create a demand floor to prevent a crash.

unfortunately you do not understand how bitcoin works.
miners have no power over fees or speed of the transactions. it is controlled by the block size and it needs to be limited. we can not have 1 GB blocks or we will see a doomed faith similar to what ETH is experiencing these days.

Unfortunately, I think you misunderstand Bitcoin and some very basic economics. Ethereum has secondary demand due to smart contracts, Dash limits supply through Masternodes and has potential as a currency, and a real roadmap to handle much more. Also, Ethereum handles more the 52% of all transactions, while BTC is below 20%. But if you want to be ruled by brand loyalty, it's your money.

Only miners can add new firmware, a flaw in the design of Bitcoin. Dash uses the Masternodes. But the nodes have no control in BTC. The majority of mining pools have to accept new firmware or BTC forks. BIP 148 let nodes (exchanges)  run a new firmware and agree they would reject the real BTC if the miners didn't run it. The miners would be legitimate BTC but they would have no place to sell.

[BitcoinHodler]

Only miners can add new firmware,

if it were true, we would have already have SegWit2x since it had >90% miners support but so little community and node support!

a flaw in the design of Bitcoin.

ETH is also the same!

Dash uses the Masternodes.

and is controlled by them. a normal user has no say in it and can not run a masternode.

BIP 148 let nodes (exchanges)

BIP 148 was a joke and a bad example. but UASF in general is a different story, the nodes have more power than you may think. it is obviously not as much as miners but they are not as powerless as you show them to be.

[thesavoyard]

Only miners can add new firmware,

if it were true, we would have already have SegWit2x since it had >90% miners support but so little community and node support!

a flaw in the design of Bitcoin.

ETH is also the same!

Dash uses the Masternodes.

and is controlled by them. a normal user has no say in it and can not run a masternode.

BIP 148 let nodes (exchanges)

BIP 148 was a joke and a bad example. but UASF in general is a different story, the nodes have more power than you may think. it is obviously not as much as miners but they are not as powerless as you show them to be.

BIP 148 did what it was supposed to do. It forced action. Nodes have power because they control the BTC/Fiat conversion. But it takes leadership to organize the nodes. BIP 148 provided an imperative, nothing more, I think it should be done again. The so-called core team sabotaged the 2mb limit and have opposed any block size increase. The problem is, they aren't the core developers. They are self-appointed. With Dash and Ethereum, the project creators are on board, so their leadership is accepted.

While the Masternodes control Dash, they have a huge stake in Dash's success. They just voted to lower the fees they receive by 100x. That's not something you see in BTC. Letting people who have no stake control the coin is a mistake.

[farhaan]

Its true that bitcoin is not used as a currency due to its high fee but for that reason only,lightning network is soon to be activated.Its still in its testing phase.It would enhance bitcoin in speed,privacy and cost.So,bitcoin would get started to be more used as a currency which would assure for its higher demand.

Ethereum or dash could in no way be a choice of bitcoin holders.

[thesavoyard]

Its true that bitcoin is not used as a currency due to its high fee but for that reason only,lightning network is soon to be activated.Its still in its testing phase.It would enhance bitcoin in speed,privacy and cost.So,bitcoin would get started to be more used as a currency which would assure for its higher demand.

Ethereum or dash could in no way be a choice of bitcoin holders.

I think you mistake what is driving the market now. Not BTC maximalists, profit grabbers. If they see another project as more viable, that will be their exit strategy.

[gopaljiverma]

I am already disturbed by the fluctuations in the price in last two days. It reached $18000 from $15000 and then back to $14000 in just 2 days. Too much fluctuation already.

[Walrus1]

Thanks good post sometimes I think there is a bit of irrational exuberance on this forum