Bitcoin unsustainable at these levels. Are people deluded?

[xxollaxx]

In theory I think BTC had a great purpose - take away the power of banks in our lives by in a sense have the people control the money. To be a universal entity controled by the people. But now that the price is so high doesn’t having whales in BTC defeats the whole purpose? Just a few People have 1000s of BTC just like some execs had the power in the banks. Thus, they can easily manipulate the market (if they wish) wouldn’t this be a whole lot worse once everything is mined?

What’s the point of new people coming into BTC if all they can afford is .0001 BTC or even less when the price goes up again. Whilst a few have 100s or thousands. Doesn’t that makes them the “little guy” with no control since BTC can be manipulated (as we all have seen in exchanges). In fact, I think the manipulation here or in Alts is just crazy and worse than Wall Street.

Other thing is I get BTC was the pioneer that changed everything and it’s king by ranking, but aren’t there already there alts way more efficient (in paper) than BTC which in the end just makes the point that BTC will not be forever and will be replaced with a newer more efficient technology out there. (Almost like when bronze was to armor then steel came and bro se was then just a thought from the past).

Talking about replacement. Why do people think that BTC will forever be the number one choice if we all know that technology is changing so fast and there will be new “ways” that will undoubtedly come sooner than later.

I have BTC so I am no hater. And I’ve been watching this forum way before signing up. I just think that some people are just getting carried away by perhaps greed which was one of the Satoshi Donts principles.

Are people being realistic here? I though about it cause some regular people in the street have started mentioning BTC as OMG BTC is crazy I must buy some then I ask them if they know what’s really BtC besides the name and if they know the purpose and they have NO idea. They just wanna make some quick money.

I don’t know. Maybe I am getting confused. Also some people (mainly maximalist) say that ALL Alts are shit (yes, way too many) but there are others that given the chance would destroy anything out there in terms of efficiency. Are those maximalist getting deluded with the thought that NOTHING will ever replace BtC?

Put your thoughts in here.

[Emoclaw]

I'm not going to comment on all the things you said (I'll let other people do the job) so here goes:

Yes, there might be some entities that control a huge amount of Bitcoin, but that doesn't mean they have any power over it (unlike banks). In a utopian world where Bitcoin is the primary currency, it doesn't matter that it can be used to manipulate prices because FIAT currencies will be secondary. But even then, the market will sort itself out.

It also doesn't matter how much people can afford because Bitcoin's supply is fixed, so it's a given that the price will surge. They can just deal with fractions of it and more fractions can be added in the future through easy protocol upgrades should it be deemed necessary.

BTC isn't just the first cryptocurrency. It's also the most time-tested & secure (by hashrate) decentralized network. It can surpass other coins which are better right now through protocol upgrades. But the problem is that there is a lot of division due to the large number of people involved with it. It's easier to make changes to Monero for example, which has a much smaller community. It has gone through several hard forks already.

[MiiDoViic]

You have a very good argument here. Yes there are already alts out there that are better than BTc when it comes to the purpose and the whole decentralization thing.But bitcoin was the first and as you said  people wanna make quick money after seing how much it grown this past months. So one of the main attraction about bitcoin right now is not his purpose but his price . Besides how do you expect to control those big holders ? they are investor also and opportunists ,That way you are suggesting that the network should make a limit on how much bitcoin you can hold ? Where's the freedom in that? isn't BTC all about having your freedom over your assets.

[xxollaxx]

I'm not going to comment on all the things you said (I'll let other people do the job) so here goes:

Yes, there might be some entities that control a huge amount of Bitcoin, but that doesn't mean they have any power over it (unlike banks). In a utopian world where Bitcoin is the primary currency, it doesn't matter that it can be used to manipulate prices because FIAT currencies will be secondary. But even then, the market will sort itself out.

It also doesn't matter how much people can afford because Bitcoin's supply is fixed, so it's a given that the price will surge. They can just deal with fractions of it and more fractions can be added in the future through easy protocol upgrades should it be deemed necessary.

BTC isn't just the first cryptocurrency. It's also the most time-tested & secure (by hashrate) decentralized network. It can surpass other coins which are better right now through protocol upgrades. But the problem is that there is a lot of division due to the large number of people involved with it. It's easier to make changes to Monero for example, which has a much smaller community. It has gone through several hard forks already.

Those forks though. Lol. Soon we will have ( BTC carbon, BTC silver, BTC uranium, BTC this, that, btc dog, btc diamond, 100s of scam coins under BTC forks) which imho will be a big mess.

[xxollaxx]

You have a very good argument here. Yes there are already alts out there that are better than BTc when .it comes to the purpose and the whole decentralization thing.But bitcoin was the first and as you said  people wanna make quick money after seing how much it grown this past months. So one of the main attraction about bitcoin right now is not his purpose but his price . Besides how do you expect to control those big holders ? they are investor also and opportunists ,That way you are suggestion that the network should make a limit on how much bitcoin you can hold ? Where's the freedom in that? isn't BTC all about having your freedom over your assets.

I am in no way suggesting anything. This project turned into a first dibs kinda thing. I just don’t think Satoshi really had a clue what was going to happen. Kinda like when you have great intentions with something and it just goes out of control. To me that’s a problem though, there has been people to be verified to have 100s of thousands of coins just there laying around. New people are also getting carried away by the news and buying 1 btc with their life savings because they think it will make them a millionaire and that BtC will be the only currency of the future. How can anyone really predict that? If BtC goes to millions then I will be a millionaire so cool I guess but then there will be quadrillionaires out there which I mean is that even sustainable? That would be like for every ultra rich there will be millions of ultra poor. This in my opinion would be the most catastrophic thing to ever happen in the history of mankind. Just saying. So those quadrillioares will call the shots for good or evil. Isn’t that scary though? But I bet people haven’t even had that thought through their minds right now. Lol.

[mOgliE]

Hi,

I understand your concerns. It would be threatenng if those "whales" had any control over bitcoin.. But they don't.

For the newbies, it is hard indeed to buy bitcoin, but still they can earn it, pieces after pieces. And for the large players, they cannot decide of the price. Of course, they will influence the rate if they all start selling at the same time.. but their action is not the only factor defining the price.. and it will never be.

The major interest in bitcoin is that everything is ruled through an algorythm and the blockchain. And no individual can control it as far as I know.

[MiiDoViic]

You have a very good argument here. Yes there are already alts out there that are better than BTc when .it comes to the purpose and the whole decentralization thing.But bitcoin was the first and as you said  people wanna make quick money after seing how much it grown this past months. So one of the main attraction about bitcoin right now is not his purpose but his price . Besides how do you expect to control those big holders ? they are investor also and opportunists ,That way you are suggestion that the network should make a limit on how much bitcoin you can hold ? Where's the freedom in that? isn't BTC all about having your freedom over your assets.

I am in no way suggesting anything. This project turned into a first dibs kinda thing. I just don’t think Satoshi really had a clue what was going to happen. Kinda like when you have great intentions with something and it just goes out of control. To me that’s a problem though, there has been people to be verified to have 100s of thousands of coins just there laying around. New people are also getting carried away by the news and buying 1 btc with their life savings because they think it will make them a millionaire and that BtC will be the only currency of the future. How can anyone really predict that? If BtC goes to millions then I will be a millionaire so cool I guess but then there will be quadrillionaires out there which I mean is that even sustainable? That would be like for every ultra rich there will be millions of ultra poor. This in my opinion would be the most catastrophic thing to ever happen in the history of mankind. Just saying. So those quadrillioares will call the shots for good or evil. Isn’t that scary though? But I bet people haven’t even had that thought through their minds right now. Lol.

Remember that the value of fiat is mandated by a central bank. If you have $6000 in the bank, and you want to take it out, the law says the bank has to give you $6000 in cash, no messing about (there are of course many "except when..." scenarios, but you get the idea.)
If Bitcoin is sitting at $1m (we wish!) and everyone decides to cash out, only the first bunch of sellers are going to get that full $1m price. The more people sell, the more the price will drop. So what you said above about most of people will become thrillionaires is impossible unless all instituations started to accept bitcoin as a payment method which i hardly doubt will happen.

[xxollaxx]

.
[/quote]
 So what you said above about most of people will become thrillionaires is impossible unless all instituations started to accept bitcoin as a payment method which i hardly doubt will happen.
[/quote]

But see? That’s what maximalist have been wanting/claiming all along. That in a sense is the main purpose of BtC otherwise it just becones  a current manipulated by someone else. To have a btc standard. If that standard happens then you get my concerns. And if not and the price keeps rising at he crazy levels then it’s considered nothing than a pyramid. Problem I see right now is that all these noobs are buying btc even my grandma and don’t even know how to use it and 2 they can’t really even buy many things in live with it. Lol.

[MiiDoViic]

 So what you said above about most of people will become thrillionaires is impossible unless all instituations started to accept bitcoin as a payment method which i hardly doubt will happen.


But see? That’s what maximalist have been wanting/claiming all along. That in a sense is the main purpose of BtC otherwise it just becones  a current manipulated by someone else. To have a btc standard. If that standard happens then you get my concerns. And if not and the price keeps rising at he crazy levels then it’s considered nothing than a pyramid. Problem I see right now is that all these noobs are buying btc even my grandma and don’t even know how to use it and 2 they can’t really even buy many things in live with it. Lol.

I get your point here. To buy bitcoin these days is a great risk , yes it might rise and make some profits and that's about it . but to buy and expect it to reach 100s of thousands is just deleusional. It might reach that level we don't know. but it most likely going to crash and people will start panic selling . and there goes their investments. The ones who hold big numbers of btc are just the ones who got in early and so it doesn't really shake them if bitcoin goes up or down. They will in all ways make profits.

[1Referee]

One thing has become clear - as long as there is money flowing into Bitcoin, these prices are well justified, even when most of the people think they're not. It's the demand pushing the market to newer highs. I too had the impression that the market was overbought, but it seems that the market has proven me wrong, and that goes up as long as the demand keeps thriving in current fashion. In previous market conditions it would have corrected already, but this is something that stands on a completely different level. At some point it will correct, but no one here has even a slight clue of when it will be. It might be at $20,000, or $30,000, or even $50,000 - only time will tell how long the strong demand can maintain its intensity.

[Xavofat]

I too had the impression that the market was overbought, but it seems that the market has proven me wrong

Bitcoin's RSI seems to be about 80 right now.  Generally, over 70 is regarded as overbought and under 30 is regarded as oversold.

You're missing the point.  The market demand may exist right now but the market being "unsustainable" is about whether it's likely to stay at this price, not what the price already is.

This is especially apparent when there's not a lot of fundamentals to judge if you treat BTC as a "store of value" - at the bottom of the speculators there's essentially a huge black hole of despair.

[dMon125]

yeah, people want Bitcoin to grow a lot, when your barber talk about bitcoin you know how much a crash could hurt. Given that, it easily can doube twice before crashing. from now to 60k sounds big, but its just doubling twice

[ebliever]

If you look at predictions people either expect Bitcoin to be worth nothing in five years, or hundreds of thousands of dollars (or more). No one is predicting a price close to where we are today, and that makes sense given its utility, assuming it can scale and that no other contender arises to take its place.

So if you're not a skeptic it makes sense to hodl, and that means buyers are going to keep driving the price higher. Far from being unsustainable it looks very sustainable. I just wonder what happens as blackouts start spreading due to mining on a global scale.

[xxollaxx]

at no other contender arises to take its place.

So if you're not a skeptic it makes sense to hodl, and that means buyers are going to keep driving the price higher. Far from being unsustainable it looks very sustainable. I just wonder what happens as blackouts start spreading due to mining on a global scale.

That’s the thing, I have read or at least heard of white pages that would slaughter BtC....in theory. Lol. BtC was nothing but an unproven theoretical system  until it was successfully carried. It would only take one Satoshi Genius to destroy the btc model but then what? That’s the scary thing. I am just concerned with crazy people throwing their life savings at it. It would be awesome if it makes a lot of millionaires, but we all know that people specially noobs panicky way to easy and there goes their life savings. 

[Costanza1]

BTC is not claiming to offer any sort of returns.  The price is due to pure supply and demand and people are waking up to the fact that we don't need bank controlled fiat to do business.  The model of money is changing and BTC is leading the way, its because of this I don't think this is a bubble and as the price continues to rise I hope the "whales" find means to distribute their wealth through businesses and such.  The early adopters didn't adopt because they thought they could get rich, they believe in the idea behind a deflationary means of money and don't think they can be compared to bankers.

[DooMAD]

What’s the point of new people coming into BTC if all they can afford is .0001 BTC or even less when the price goes up again. Whilst a few have 100s or thousands.

With a cap of 21 million coins, most people were never going to have much more than that anyway.  If Bitcoin had been distributed equally between every internet user today, each person would have ~.006 BTC.  But since early block rewards were 50 BTC to give this new economy a jump-start, the average person will undoubtedly have less than that amount.  But, if you move the decimal place in a fashion that most people would be accustomed to, smaller amounts might sound like a more substantial sum.  It also stands to reason that those seemingly smaller sums are going to represent more value over time than they currently do.  It's therefore likely that the price could go much higher.

And on top of all that, it's still no less unbalanced than traditional money, even when we were still using the gold standard.  But now that we're off that and banksters can magic up a $1.2 Quadrillion derivatives market, ~20x the size of the rest of the world economy, out of literally nowhere, along with all the rest of the quantitative easing and incessant money printing, one could easily argue that Bitcoin is the more fair system out of the two.  Not to mention the system which is going to be more resilient to the inevitable moment when that mountain of IOUs comes tumbling down.

People can afford .0001 BTC more than they can afford their fiat savings turning into the equivalent of the Zimbabwe Dollar or Weimar Republic.  It has happened before and in can happen again.  So no one can afford to have all their eggs in one basket for that reason.

[andylioe78]

You have a very good argument. There are alts out there that are better than BTC in terms of goals and overall decentralization issues. But bitcoin is the first you say, people want to earn money quickly. one of the main attractions about bitcoin today is not its purpose but its price. Besides you expect to control a big holder of investors and opportunists, That way you suggest that the network limit how many bitcoins you can hold? Where's the freedom in that? Not BTC about your freedom of your assets.

[dimastegar]

Steady, I also think like you. Why do many people come in and take responsibility for investing bitcoin. Because there must be a substitute Bitcoin which has a small fee and a faster transaction. I think besides Ethereum, there will be another coin that can match Bitcoin.

[flippener]

I see Bitcoin as the new gold. It's the biggest and best cryptocurrency, the gold standard. You wouldn't take gold to Starbucks to buy a coffee, you use it to store your wealth - it's the same with Bitcoin. Alts are there for the smaller transactions.

[lacusfish]

We can’t really say how Bitcoin is going to affect the real market since the exchange is done virtually with no other party included. But, it is still a good way to invest your money.